Posted on 03/27/2019 9:23:21 AM PDT by Salvation
And to this day, the Mass is offered in Latin in some western-derived Catholic churches. In eastern-derived Catholic Churches, the Divine Liturgy is offered in Greek (with some Aramaic, old church Slavonic, and perhaps a few other languages.) It has nothing to do with "The worldwide Latin mass was imposed later so that the poor and illiterate couldn’t follow because they couldn’t read and only clergy and the wealthy understood latin." That bit is counter-historical nonsense.
Please inform those ignorant amongst us why the church went all ,latin after the message of pentecost
The church is infamous for not doing much to uplift the poor and kow towing to the land owners, kings, princess, and wealthy to maintain their own power base. There’s not much profit in educating and uplifting peons. But your version of history may enlighten me, m as I admit I missed a few days of class when i majored in history and studied church history since..
Exactly.
No Marxist claptrap there, nosiree.
you are ignoring the first preaching down by the apostles and the early spread of the church. The people gathered at pentecost didn’t all speak only latin or greek or there would be no reason for the Holy Ghost to bring the gift of tongues.
THE LATIN MASS WAS MANDATED ABOUT 160 YEARS LATER.
MUST HAVE NOT READ YOUR OWN POSTS
People in the western part of the Empire spoke what language? In what language was the Mass offered in the western part of the Empire?
People in the eastern part of the Empire spoke what language? In what language was the Divine Liturgy offered in the eastern part of the Empire?
The church is infamous
The rest of your post is inconsistent with reality.
Have you ever worshiped with our eastern Catholic brethren? The Liturgy in Greek is beautiful. Also, it is characterized by discipline, sober vigilance, and [an] attentive ear to the Word of the Lord. I used to live within an hour drive of a Melkite-Greek Catholic Church, and visited a few times.
You continue to say language when the plural is accurate languages. I suggested early those of you who think Pentecost is meaningless read some world history then you will see what languageS people spoke where the apostles preached.
Also you may not know or have been to Jerusalem to realize it was a major crossroads of roads regions and brought trade in from tribes and lands which didn’t speak Greek or latin.
preaching DONE
I’m out. I can’t believe on a catholic forum thread people don’t understand pentecost or who was in Jerusalem on that day.
The Epistle for the Feast of Pentecost, Acts 2:1-11, gives to us a description of the events which constitute the basis for the Feast.
When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs – we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”
Hi. Interesting article.
“Go to your inner room and pray in secret...”
5.56mm
We have a Freeper who attends a Maronite Mass (aligned with the Pope). Their Mass is in Aramaic with some Hebrew. Not sure on this. But the description of the Mass sounds absolutely beautiful.
Not true. That's a falsehood.
But one of the blessings of Vatican 2 was the local language mass returning to the original message of pentecost.
There have been no "blessings" from VC II. Just look around: kiddy masses, clown masses, homo masses, folk masses, communion in the paw and on the hoof, winks at birth control and abortion, communion for those in mortal sin and even non-catholics.
This is a strikingly ahistorical and cynical (not to say paranoid) take on the motives for the Latin Mass.
For the first 1000 years,there really weren't any written national languages, no English, French, or even Italian as we know them today. In the West, to be literate was to read Latin; in the East, Greek; and Aramaic, Ge'ez and Arabic in the surviving churches in the lands subsumed under the rule of Islam.
The great advantage of Latin was its inclusiveness: people could share the greatest of literature and correspond and converse in the same language from Prague to Cadiz and from Oslo to Gibraltar. (This applied not only to Liturgy, but to Philosophy, Literature, History, Mathematics, Astronomy, Medicine --- a continent-wide community of people who could travel everywhere and be understood. There's a kind of Pentecost for you.)
Most European mother-tongues had no written form, not even an alphabet, for centuries. (For instance: Dante is considered the first writer in vernacular Tuscan, later Italian: -- this is 14th century, which is early Renaissance.) Books, being either hand-written or printed by woodblock, were extremely costly to produce, and it would have been physically and culturally impossible to accommodate people's mother-tongues,
Rusyn
Polish
Ukrainian
Serbo-Croatian
Czech
Bulgarian
Slovak
Belarusian
Slovene
Macedonian
Lower Sorbian
Upper Sorbian
Kashubian
Bosnian
Croatian
Montenegrin
Serbian
Most of the above had to make do with Old Church Slavonic as their liturgical language--- not their mother tongue,
French, a dozen dialects
Italian, a dozen dialects,
Spanish, a dozen dialects,
...including Mozarabic, which was a liturgical language
Romanian
Portuguese
Sicilian
Catalan
Galician
Basque
Sardinian
Cretan
Cypriot
Maltese
Corsican
Tuscan
Dalmatian
Lombard
the Rhaeto-Romance languages
the Gallo-Italic languages
the Occitano-Romance languages
Occitan
Catalan
Aragonese
Astur-Leonese
Galician-Portuguese
Castilian
I'm not even 1/4 of the way through and I'm exhausted. I haven't even mentioned the many dialects of German, the language of the Angles, the language of the Saxons, the six major divisions of Celtic, all of which would have been incomprehensible even to a middle-English speaker like Geoffrey Chaucer (like Dante, 14th century).
Bottom line, if you're still with me: Latin was the only way people could write, be published, and communicate beyond their own, oh, Manx or Frisian or Aragonese-speaking valley or village.
And a surprising number of people DID speak Latin, especially anybody (missionaries, traders, for instance) who had any occasion to venture from their childhood hearth and home.
St. Patrick, born in Roman Britain, educated in Auxerre,France, preached in Ireland in several Goidelic (Gaelic) languages, but wrote to the pagan Franks --- his Letter to the soldiers of Coroticus (Latin: Epistola) --- in Latin. Why? Because the Franks were priests? (No.) Because Latin was the international language. It was what pagan Frankish soldiers spoke.
But that's a topic for later. Suppertime!
It is clear that God intended the apostles to spread the gospel in native languages. The message of Pentecost. The required latin mass came 160 years later.
I agree with most of the benefits you list, but to say it was beneficial to the majority of people who were poor and uneducated is a fantasy. Until the printing press and universal education people were much easier to hold down and control as they are now.
We share some of the dislike of V 2 I mentioned 1 change that is beneficial for missionary work and ongoing catholics worldwide and in the sprint of Pentecost and you got carried away.
For those of you hanging on my every word and denying what is right there in the bible, which I posted two verses of, I am tired of fighting off the hours.
Have a good one. I would post in Latin, but I want you all to understand.
Catholic Church, Where Are You? The Cry of a Frontier Missionary
Open your eyes.
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