Posted on 08/24/2003 7:34:50 PM PDT by boromeo
This is serious. The TRADS and the NEOS on Free Republic are full of good humor and grace, so I have a challenge. I would like to attempt to compile two top ten lists of discussion points, one from a TRAD and one from a NEO perspective with questions for the 'conservative' Catholic conference coming up with the Bishops (Gregory, etc.) set up by Deal Hudson. Sorry dissenters, you have to sit this one out. It would also be nice if we could arrive at a FREEREPUBLIC chat room top five list where TRADS and NEOS can prove that yes, dog-gone-it, sometimes, we can all just get along and agree. Or maybe not. Anyway, no fair crossing lines and mucking with each other's lists. Please limit your posts to 10 ideas, and send them to the group or to me privately. You have to mark clearly if you're suggestions are TRAD or NEO. All entries marked confidential will be kept confidential. Keep your suggestions compact TRADS. NEOS, points are deducted for using the word 'spirit.' Have fun!
List?
Reclaim the moral authority and credibility of Roman Catholicism in America! This can ONLY be done if they
1)Proclaim Catholic teachings on sexuality without apology. BAR homosexuals from ordination to the priesthood. Laicize sexually active homosexual priests, including bishops and cardinals if necessary. Laicize bishops and priests who persistently dissent from Humanae Vitae or the Church's teachings on homosexuality or ordination of women.
2) Ban pro-abort politicians from the Sacraments. Request Canon 1398 be changed--Add a second paragraph stating that any appointed or elected public official that propagandizes or votes for abortion, homosexual "rights", euthanasia, and/or human cloning incur latae sententiae excommunication. Then enforce Canon 915!
3) Get rid of heterodox bishops, in whatever way is prudent. If necessary, employ the old standard, "Promoveatur ut amoveatur." A handy litmus test would include heterodoxy on Humanae Vitae and tolerance of homosexual priests, for starters.
4) Obey the Pope on the current Indult, and request a General Indult.
5) Clean up or close the Pink Palace seminaries.
6)Close, or remove the Catholic title of, any Catholic institution of higher learning with rampant dissent and heterodoxy.
*Canon 1398: "A person who actually procures an abortion incurs a latae sententiae ["by that very fact they commit this action" or "automatic"] excommunication."
Canon 1329, §2 "In the case of a latae sententiae penalty attached to an offence, accomplices, even though not mentioned in the law or precept, incur the same penalty if, without their assistance, the crime would not have been committed, and if the penalty is of such a nature as to be able to affect them[...]"
This is especially relevant here since numerous persons may be involved in procuring the abortion, e.g., parents of the aborted fetus, their families, doctor, nurses, etc. Those without whose assistance the abortion would not have been procured presumably incur the excommunication since they are necessary accomplices. Canon 1329 specifies that accomplices to an act that triggers a latae sententiae excommunication are also subject to the same penalty if “without their assistance, the crime would not have been committed.” Canonists believe such accomplices include the doctor and nurses who perform the procedure, as well as friends or family (such as the husband or boyfriend) who cooperate in a direct fashion, such as paying for the abortion or driving to the clinic.
It’s an open question in magisterial circles whether politicians who vote for legal abortion, support public funding for abortion, and/or otherwise help make abortion available, should be considered “accomplices” and hence excommunicated.
A strict interpretation of canon 1398 means that it applies primarily to those directly participating in the abortion. Hence, however morally problematic their behavior,it applies neither to abortion clinic administrators nor to political officials facilitating abortions by advocating abortion rights and voting to fund abortions. Therefore, some moral theologians believe such votes may be morally wrong, but they do not constitute sufficiently direct involvement in an individual abortion to trigger excommunication.
Bishop Elio Sgreccia, vice president of the Pontifical Academy for Life says it is his “personal opinion” that politicians who support permissive abortion laws are subject to the canonical penalties for accomplices.
One exception is identified in Pope John Paul’s 1995 encyclical on bioethics, Evangelium Vitae. When outlawing abortion is politically impossible, the pope held, a politician could vote for a law that permits some abortions, if it’s the most restrictive result feasible and the alternative would be a more liberal standard.
In reality, there is no such thing as "trad" Catholics and "neo" Catholics.
There is orthodoxy and heterodoxy. Both can be found in abundance among both "trads" and "neos."
Main Entry: ne-
Variant(s): or neo-
Function: combining form
Etymology: Greek, from neos new -- more at NEW
1 a : new : recent <Neogene> b : new and different period or form of <Neoplatonism> : in a new and different form or manner <Neoplatonic> c : New World <Neotropical> d : new and abnormal <neoplasm>
2 : new chemical compound isomeric with or otherwise related to (such) a compound <neostigmine>
"Neo" in your context is a term of derision coined by extreme trads to denigrate those who do not subscribe to their particular and often heterodox world-view regarding all things Catholics.
It implicitly connotes "heterodoxy" by those who use it in regards to those to whom they apply the term, i.e., "the post Vatican II church is new and different or new and abnormal, a dramatic [heterodox!]departure from what preceded it for 2,000 years.
I reject the term "Neo" as should any orthodox Catholic.
Unless you prefer to be labeled an "integrist." In which case we would both be simply swapping childish and worthless derogatory labels.
See my post #86
When will the the USCCB invite Fr. John Harvey, founder of the Courage apostolate, to speak and address the problems created by the current glut of priests and bishops with disordered affections?
When will the USCCB put the committee document "Always Our Children" to a line-by-line open vote?
When will the USCCB revise "Always Our Children" to incorporate Fr. Harvey's "Observations Concerning The Revised Text of Always Our Children"
LOL! You are too clever!
thrice-divorced, planned-parenthood-employed, Eucharistic Babe
...with the cleavage showing...
When will the USCCB speak out against its member-bishops who host ministries in defiance of Church teaching on same-sex relationships and advertise them on their diocesan websites, such as the Gay and Lesbian Family Ministry (Diocese of Cleveland)?
When will the USCCB speak out against its member-bishops who allow parishes within their jurisdiction to host and advertise ministries in defiance of Church teaching on same-sex relationships, such as the Catholic Community of Santa Sophia Church (Diocese of San Diego)?
When will the USCCB take notice of and speak out against those pastors whose parishes are listed on St. Bernadette Parish's national directory of "Gay Friendly Parishes" (Diocese of Baltimore)?
Our Church is in a suburban location; the rectory is away from the church.
It has been vandalized five times in 12 years.
All I know is what the insurance company told the pastor.
When are you Bishops, both individually and corporately, going to start acting like Bishops? Successors to the Apostles under the influence of the Grace of the Holy Spirit? When are you going to Teach, Sanctify, and Rule your Sees in the name and authority of Christ? Is, or is not, the Eternal Salvation of souls and the call to Holiness within the mystical body of Christ going to become, once again, the one and unambiguous reason for our existence as a Church here in America (as well as throughout the World)?
I dread that there are those who would not even agree to the phrasing of these questions. But until they are answered with firm positive convictions, all else is for naught.
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