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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The Battle for Mortain (Aug. 7-12, 1944) - Aug 7th, 2003
http://www.coulthart.com/134/35chapter_5.htm ^
Posted on 08/07/2003 12:00:16 AM PDT by SAMWolf
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Lord,
Keep our Troops forever in your care
Give them victory over the enemy...
Grant them a safe and swift return...
Bless those who mourn the lost. .
FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer for all those serving their country at this time.
God Bless America ...................................................................................... ...........................................
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U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues
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The Battle for Mortain
Mortain - Santa Fe to the Rescue
The story of Mortain is a tribute to the courage and fighting qualities of the American Soldier.
 Crests of 35th Division Infantry Regiments
By 5 August, the Vire Campaign was over, and the 35th prepared to go onward in extension of the Allied plans. With the Cotentin Peninsula firmly in his grasp, the Supreme Commander intended to take the Croton Peninsula to the south and reduce it, before swinging a wide arm about the German armies in the west. The Third Army, under the command of Lieutenant General George S. Patton, Jr., was preparing to make this wide sweep. In addition to his famed armored columns, General Patton required strong, aggressive infantry to mop up and consolidate the positions the tanks overran. Accordingly, the 35th was transferred back to Third Army, and assigned to the XX Corps, which also contained the veteran 5th United States Division and the 2nd french Armored Division.
The division began boarding trucks on 5 August to move to an assembly area. Ultimately it was expected to arrive in the vicinity of Rennes which was about midway on the base of the Croton Peninsula.
Proceeding to Pontfaroy, the motor convoy turned southwest, swung around Villedieu, continued southwest to Ponts, within sight of Avranches on the Mont St. Michel Bay. Turning east at Ponts to Brecey, the convoy reached the town of St. Hilaire du Harcouet on the night of 5 - 6 August.
The breakthrough of the American forces at St. Lo had carried Armor penetration deep into france. The 30th Infantry Division driving down from the north had captured Mortain, and the high ground southeast of the city. Avranches, the focal point of communications between the Allied source of supplies at Cherbourg and the beachheads, was seated at the juncture of the bases of the Cotentin and the Brittany peninsulas. The German Commander in the West, General Von Rundstedt, realized that unless he could attack, divide, and smash the Allied forces with one complete and decisive blow, the battle of Normandy would be lost. Mustering all available resources he counter-attacked on the morning of 7 August with strong forces of tank and infantry, the brunt of the blow striking along the Mortain - Avranches axis in the Mortain area. Sweeping aside all opposition the Germans recaptured Mortain, driving the defenders back, isolating the 2nd Battalion, 120th Infantry, 30th Infantry Division, on a hill just east of the city.
 The encounter of two different worlds
In attempting to enlarge this penetration, the enemy next turned his attention to the west and to the recapture of St. Hilaire du Harcouet. Anticipating the enemy threat, the 35th was ordered to assemble in the vicinity of St. Hilaire. For operational control in meeting the impending threat, the division was attached to VII Corps, 1st U. S. Army, for commitment in the Mortain area. Preparatory to the enemy attack on St. Hilaire on the night of 5 - 6 August, the town and the roads leading into it were subjected to a severe night bombing by a large fleet of German planes. During this raid, convoys of the `134th and 137th Infantry Regiments, assembling in their assigned areas, were bombed.
Due to the fluid situation and the enemy's ability to press the attack, Major General Baade ordered Combat Teams 134 and 137 to be prepared to move to the east without delay.
The first problem confronting the Santa Fe was to establish a definite line. This was decided on as the Mortain - Barenton - St. Cyr du Baileu Highway. Since Combat Teams 134 and 137 were on a thirty-minute alert notice, they were able to move quickly. At 2030 on 7 August they moved eastward to secure the highway. This was accomplished in part the first day. But it developed that not only were the Germans strongly entrenched on the high ground north and east of Barenton, firmly dug-in within Mortain and the Mortain Forest, but they were also attempting to drive south and west with a force of approximately 700 men accompanied by tanks through the Mortain Forest in order to cut the St. Hilaire - Louvigne du Desert Highway.
The line having been established except on the Santa Fe's left flank, the next thing to do was to split the enemy into pockets and reduce them. This would have the double effect of driving the enemy from the territory and relieving the besieged battalion of the 30th Division.
The 137th Infantry drove the enemy from Barenton in some sharp fighting and moved into the area between there and le Teilleul.
 American field communication post during the Mortain counter-attack
The regiment's 1st and 2nd Battalions then established posts at St. Georges de Rouelle and St. Mar - de Egrende respectively, with a motorized patrol covering the roads from le Teilleul to St. Cyr thence to the regimental boundary between Mortain and Barenton. These patrols were continued throughout the following day. The 3rd Battalion was attached to the 134th Infantry.
On 11 August, elements of the 4th Infantry Division took over part of the 137th's zone and the 2nd Battalion reverted to Division reserve. The 1st Battalion advanced northeast from Barenton to Bousentier, then westward toward the Mortain Forest in an encircling movement. This advance was continued on the 12th, and early in the morning the ridge of the high ground north of le Gil Bouillion was gained.
Pushed from the north slope of the high ground and faced with possible encirclement, the enemy made a general withdrawal from that sector. Long columns of enemy vehicles were reported leaving Ger and St. Barthelemy. American P-47's pounced upon the fleeing Germans and bombed and strafed them continuously during the afternoon.
 M8 American vehicle captured by the Germans during the Mortain counter-attack
Enemy artillery was used to cover this withdrawal. The 137th was due to be relieved by elements of the 2nd Armored Division at 2200 in the vicinity of Rancoudray. However, the 1st Battalion of the 137th and the 3rd Battalion of the 134th, which had been attached, were still engaged in heavy fighting at that hour, and relief was not effected until the morning of 13 August.
Meanwhile the 320th was operating in the immediate area of Mortain. The Combat Team formation ceased at 1800 on 9 August and they continued to operate as a regiment, with attached elements, attacking to the east and pushing back the enemy.
Information was then received that told of the perilous condition of the "Lost Battalion" of the 30th Division. Regardless of the Battalion Commander's courageous retort that the Germans could "Go to Hell with their demand for surrender," the situation was desperate. They had no medical supplies to care for the wounded; their food stocks were depleted; their water was low; their ammunition was fast becoming exhausted. Unless immediate relief reached them, their brave resistance would have to stop. Efforts to drop supplies to them from the air failed. Division artillery tried firing shells filled with medical supplies to them, but the quantities were too small to fill the need.
 German column destroyed by Allied fighter-bombers
The attack to the east by the division continued on 10 August against stiff resistance. The 1st Battalion, 320th Infantry with the 737th Tank Battalion attached, drew the assignment to capture Hill 317 and to rescue the "Lost Battalion." This attack began at 1500. The tanks were in column and one company of infantry rode on them. Artillery fired a ten-minute preparation and exactly at the time of the attack, planes appeared and bombed the enemy to screen the tank movement. Smoke fired by the artillery marked the targets. In one hour the tanks had advanced a mile under heavy artillery and anti-tank fire. Before the day was over they had reached the foot of the hill. This drive, coupled with the fierce and determined advance of the 134th, cut in two the pocket of resistance west of the highway.
The attack continued throughout 11 August as the 1st Battalion 320th edged up Hill 137. Riding on tanks of the 737th Tank Battalion, the doughboys pushed their way through a stubbornly resisting enemy. Within 500 yards of the "Lost Battalion," the last of the tanks, not crippled by the heavy German fire, halted to cover the advance of the dismounted doughs. The battalion went the rest of the way on foot driving over enemy positions in hand to hand fighting to rescue the courageous battalion of the 30th. Lieutenant Homer W. Kurtz, Troy, Illinois, and four men from the Intelligence Section of the 3rd Battalion were the first to reach the "Lost Battalion."
The relief was a dramatic one, for in their weakened condition it was doubtful if the survivors could have held out much longer. Anticipating this, the 35th Quartermaster Company was waiting to dash up the hill with supplies. A truck filled with supplies and water convoyed by three tanks (two in front and one behind) was the first to run the enemy gauntlet. Corporal Verlin D. Young of Lexington, Nebraska, and T/5 Hans Gehlsen of Gross, Nebraska, were selected.
Driving at top speed over the rough terrain of fields in order to avoid enemy roadblocks, dodging through the screen of heavy artillery fire that threatened them all the way, the convoy reached the fast-failing troops with the supplies. Then, instead of remaining in the comparative safety of the battalion area, the convoy dashed back to the 35th Division lines carrying 20 men who were seriously wounded.
Even more significant than the rescue of the battalion was the fact that the German attempt to break the lifeline was smashed. Hitler's last chance to balk the invasion was wrecked and the way was open for the complete rout of the German armies in france.
The 1st Battalion, 320th Infantry and the 737th Tank Battalion were honored with Distinguished Unit Citations for this daring venture. Once again the Santa Fe had beaten back the best that the veteran German Army could muster.
The division was prouder than ever after V-E day when members of the German General Staff stated that the War was lost when their counter-attack at Mortain - Avranches failed.
Thanks to Freeper PhilDragoo for the idea for this thread
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TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: 30thinfantry; 35thinfantry; france; freeperfoxhole; michaeldobbs; mortain; normandy; panzers; veterans; wwii
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Mortain: the Battle for Hill 314
This small french village became the focus of a German counterattack on the evening of August 6, 1944. Operation Lüttich, as it was called, was ordered by Hitler with the intention of splitting the American forces between Hodges' First Army and Patton's newly formed Third Army. The Germans needed control of the vital road network around Mortain to allow a drive to Avranches on the coast. the Germans would later state that their failure to complete the separation of the American forces was a "turning point" in the battle of the western front. This failure was caused by the determined resistance of Old Hickory at Mortain.
Hitler personally ordered this attack contrary to the advice of his generals. It was opposed to such a degree that the commander of the 116th Panzer Division refused to follow the order, delaying the attack. Nonetheless, at approximately 0100 hours 7 August the lead elements of the 2nd SS Panzer Division made contact with members of the 9th U.S. Infantry Division. In addition to the 2nd SS "Das Reich" division, the 1st SS Panzer "Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler", 116th Panzer, and 17th SS Panzergrenadier divisions also participated.
The disposition of Old Hickory's troops around Mortain was as follows. On the eastern side of the town stood a tall hill, elevation 314. Hill 314 had been recognized by the Americans as a vital defensive position early on and was held by the 2nd battalion, 120th Infantry. The 1st of the 120th was on the west of Mortain holding hill 285. Two platoons of the 120th's company F, a platoon of the 120th's antitank company, along with 3rd platoon of Company A, 823rd Tank Destroyer Battalion had established what would prove to be a crucial roadblock at L'Abbaye Blanche where they could cover the road junctions north of Mortain. Meanwhile, the 117th Infantry was in place at St. Barthelmy, approximately two miles north of Mortain. The 119th Infantry was to the northwest near Le Mesnil-Adelée.

Above are depicted part of the Anti-tank Company, 3rd Battalion, 120th Infantry Regiment, 30th Infantry Division (N.C., S.C., Tenn.) during fighting on the second day. They had set up a roadblock adjacent to Hill 317, where the 2nd Battalion, 120th Infantry was dug in directly north of Mortain. The crews, manning the 57mm anti-tank guns, and troops of the 2nd Battalion with anti-tank rockets, were responsible for destroying over 40 vehicles during the action and stopped the German onslaught in the area. On the 7th of August, the roadblock and Hill 317 were surrounded and bypassed by the main body of German forces. The group surrounded on Hill 317, commanded by Capt. Reynold Erichson -- about 700 men -- were protected by a ring of artillery fire from the 35th Infantry Division artillery and fighter-bomber sorties flown by the 2nd Tactical Air Force RAF. This kept the Germans from taking Hill 317 and stopped the momentum of the counterattack in the area on the first day.
The Germans made significant gains in the early hours of the attack, actually capturing the village of Mortain. However the Nazis failed to gain control of the crucial high ground around Mortain. Such was the disposition in the initial stages of the attack.
Although they held Mortain, they had not gained control of the roads they so desperately needed. The directed artillery fire from Hill 314 prevented this. The 120th held the hill and despite being completely cut off from resupply and relief these infantrymen withstood the repeated assaults of combined German artillery, armor and infantry assaults.
The most important function of the battalion's stand was the continuing ability to call accurate artillery fire from the massed guns of ten artillery battalions, 120 tubes in all. The drive around Hill 314 became an artillery duel relying on forward observers like Lt. Robert Weiss on the hill with the 120th. However, due to the inability to resupply the besieged troops, the F.O.'s were running out of battery power for their radios. Despite multiple attempts to fight through the German positions surrounding the hill no penetration could be made.
The situation became so desperate that artillery resupply (packing plasma, dressings, and medicine in artillery shells normally used to fire propaganda leaflets and firing them into the 120th's position) of medical supplies was attempted, with little success. Airdrops were also attempted. After struggling through amazing amounts of beauracracy at corps level, the divisional G-4 was able get some C-47 drops but most of the supplies ended up in German hands, and most importantly, no radio batteries made it through. Even the light artillery spotter Piper Cubs attempted to get through, but they were driven off by heavy German fire. Radio calls were limited to fire missions, and then only the briefest of information could be transmitted.

The German convoys were camouflaged in an attempt to protect them from Allied aircraft
The plight of the 2/120th on 314 remained grave. They held out against more German attacks and most of the men were certain they would be overrun. Many veterans of the battle stated that the Germans could have walked right through them several times. It even progressed to the point that an SS officer presented a surrender ultimatum to Lt. Kerley, commanding Co. E. Kerley declined the offer, and at 2015 hours on the 9th the Germans attempted to make the doughboys pay for their insolence. The SS attacked yet again, yelling "surrender!" as they ran over the American foxholes. The resulting fight was so bitter that Kerley was forced to call in artillery on his own position to finally repulse the attack.
This situation continued until the troops on Hill 314 were finally relieved the morning of August 12th by elements of the 35th Infantry Division. The story of the battle is ripe with tales of heroism, sacrifice and determination by regular soldiers. However the drama at the individual level may be overshadowed by the theater level significance of the division's stand in Mortain.
The fact that the 30th division held out against such a major attack is amazing in itself. Additionally it was important that the German forces were fixed at Mortain, allowing the air strikes, artillery barrages, and tank hunting infantry teams to exact a terrible toll on the strongest divisions the Germans had in the region. The German losses in this failed attack were remarkable.
Remarkable as well was the opportunity the attack gave the Allies. By leaving the 30th unrelieved at Mortain, General Bradley was able to fix the Germans on this bait and begin an encirclement of the entire German Army Group B. Via Ultra intercepts the Allied high command knew the Germans were not going to retreat from the battle with the 30th. Bradley then developed operation Totalize designed to circle from the south with Patton's troops to meet Montgomery's striking from the north to Falaise.

30th Infantry Division Memorial - Mortain, france
Although little recognized in popular history, the heroic stand of the 30th Infantry Division at Mortain made a tremendous contribution to the allied victory in france.
1
posted on
08/07/2003 12:00:16 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
To: AntiJen; snippy_about_it; Victoria Delsoul; SassyMom; bentfeather; MistyCA; GatorGirl; radu; ...
Battle for Mortain
The enemy was well acquainted with the possibilities that presented themselves. He had been over the ground before. Four of his best Panzer Divisions were massed to thwart the developing threat to his line of defense. And on 8 August 1944, he struck with all the power he could muster on the main road between Mortain and St. Barthelmy ridge in the misty dawn of early- morning. The German plan called for driving a wedge through the Allies at this point, separating the Americans from the British forces, and driving them back some twenty miles, through Avranches and to the sea. The Third U. S. Army cut off from its supply bases would also be placed in a precarious position.

Typhoons attacking German Armour Convoys
The savage attack succeeded in piercing the American lines. Ground had to be given up. Both sides suffered heavy casualties in the do or die encounter. Then the 30th Division with the aid of the 823rd T. D. Battalion stiffened and held. Enemy artillery took a terrific toll. One Division, with its supporting components, had absorbed the impact of the most determined German drive of the war. But they also suffered heavily. What a welcome sight it was to see the British typhoons come into action! With their rocket firing weapons they piled up the enemy armor and helped slacken the momentum of the hostile offensive. Two days later, ground support arrived -- RCT 12 of the 4th Armored Division, and a combat command from the 3rd Armored Division.
This battle will never be forgotten by the Battalion! It stayed right with the doughboys and did not yield a foot of ground. The enemy used his most elite troops in the effort: the 1st SS Pz Div. (Leibstandarte) "Adolph Hitler", the 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich", the 2nd Panzer Division, and the 116th Pz Div. But they were fought to a standstill. The savage attack which had penetrated to within a few feet of the Battalion destroyers was fought off with machine guns, hand grenades, and rifle fire. 823rd Tank Destroyers blocked the two main roads leading to Avranches and allowed no hostile armor or infantry to get through.

Villagers place flowers on the body of a GI who gave his life for their freedom
The action in and near Mortain and St. Barthelmy was so fast and furious that any attempts to describe it must leave the story only half told. Company "A's" roll consisted primarily of repulsing numerous counter attacks, knocking out tanks as well as general purpose vehicles and killing Germans. On 8 August 1944, at 0130 hours, hostile forces infiltrated friendly infantry lines, cut of Company "A's" third platoon outpost and attempted to enter Mortain from the Southwest. They were driven back, chiefly by fire from .50 caliber machine guns mounted on the TD halftracks. A second enemy penetration proved to be more successful. A large number of troops, presumably from the 116th Panzer Grenadiers, made their way through our lines occupied the town of Mortain. 1st Lt. Elmer L. Miller, the platoon leader could have withdrawn honorably, since no tanks were involved in the action; but knowing how thinly spread were the friendly troops, and that no reserves were available, he chose to fight it out until he was captured.

A Tiger tank in a defensive position
Concentrated small arms fire at close range made it impossible to use the three-inch guns, so the men of the Battalion were broken up into small isolated groups. Sixteen men of the third platoon fought north through the town for five days and eventually joined the first platoon. Nine others were cut off. They withdrew with the infantry and battled along side the doughs of the 2nd Battalion of the 120th Infantry Regiment for five days. One person, Nageeb A. David was so completely separated that he had to remain concealed in a ditch, for a similar period, without food or water, in order to escape detection by the enemy. He was rescued when the counter thrust was finally driven back.
The 1st and 2nd platoons of Company "A" underwent incessant mortar and artillery fire. They repulsed counterattack after counterattack for five long days and nights. Then the attack petered out and the German forces began their trek back to the Siegfried Line. In containing the enemy attack, the 2nd platoon knocked out two Mark IV tanks, two self-propelled guns, and 1 armored car, with three-inch fire. One Mark IV was put out of commission by a bazooka team. The platoon also killed about fifty of the enemy.

Town of Mortain - Aug 1944
The first platoon, with 1st Lt. Springfield leading, was maintaining a road block through the entire fracas; and although it was cut off at one time, it remained in position and accounted for a goodly share of the Panzers, including an estimated 200 Panzer Grenadiers killed. For five days and nights the for threw its strongest weight against the 30th Division line in a fierce attempt to break through, but it could never quite make it. Despite voluminous artillery fire, tanks and armored vehicles, the fighting spirit of the First platoon never wavered.
Company "B" was caught in the prong of the German offensive that was bent upon encircling St. Barthelmy, france. The 3rd platoon in the village was overrun, while the first platoon had a field day knocking out Panther tanks and destroying many of the invaders. At 2000 hours, 7 August 1944 the 3rd platoon moved into St. Barthelmy along with one gun of the second platoon. One section covered the approaches to the town from the Southeast; the other protected the Northwest approaches. At about 0300 hours hostile troop and tank movement could be heard. However, visibility was practically zero because of the fog that enveloped the area. At about 1615 hours, following a terrific artillery concentration for 1¼ hours, a coordinated tank and Panzer Grenadier attack was launched by the foe from the North, East and South. The friendly infantry lines were overwhelmed and had to withdraw West of the town. A few components managed to establish strong points within the village, however, and held their ground. The onrushing foe used every weapon at its command to the fullest extent. Behind extremely heavy small arms, rifle grenade, machine gun, mortar, and tank fire, they drove within sight of the Battalion's 3 inch gun positions. The guns themselves were being manned by abbreviated crews, all excess personnel being used as infantry.

Town of Mortain - Aug 1944
Despite the extreme valor of its men, the 3rd platoon was overrun by the higher superior force, and only a handful managed to escape. Lt. George I. Greene, group leader was last seen by one of the security men who got away, backing into a doorway firing a 30 caliber machine gun from the hip, as it might have been done in the movies .
With disintegration of the 3rd platoon, 1st Lt Leon L. Neel, in charge of the 1st platoon, spread out his gun positions in order to take up as much slack as possible. One gun, placed West of the town immediately accounted for a Panther tank. Pvt. Cecil O. Derr killed the tank commander with his carbine at 300 yards. A few rounds of HE got rid of the supporting grenadiers, and AP demolished the tank itself.
Not long afterwards the three inch gun became a victim of a German 88, and part of the crew was injured by rifle grenades. Lt Neel lost no time in bringing up a replacement which he set up in a field with a 57mm AT gun, and he coordinated their respective fields of fire. However, the 57mm gun departed just as additional tanks arrived, and part of the sector was left uncovered. Visibility was so poor during the early hours that firing had to be aimed at opposing gun flashes. Later investigation proved the system to have been highly effective. As the fog began clearing, a Panther tank was seen bearing down the main road. It was quickly put out of action with AP, and all its crew killed with HE as they attempted to flee the vehicle. Two more tanks were observed on the highway, but they stopped just short of the 3 inch gun range. One of them circled through the fields and assumed a position from which it could dominate the immediate area.
The tank destroyer weapon was in a hastily occupied position. Its crew could observe the marauding tanks, but was unable to fire upon them. For 45 minutes, the tank on the road conducted a vigilant search for the three inch piece. It knocked out two friendly vehicles that was traveling down the main highway, during the interval, but failed to find the concealed gun. Finally it maneuvered into range. The crew fired one round realizing only too well that by doing so would reveal their own position to the second hostile tank. The shot found its mark and another enemy tank was destroyed. The remaining marauder went into action at once. It succeeded in knocking out the three- incher and the crew was forcibly ejected by the impact.

Town of Mortain - Aug 1944
The personnel sought refuge behind a hedgerow, and moved to the rear where they joined other men from knocked-out guns in manning outposts, serving on bazooka teams, and making reconnaissance into enemy territory. Without specific orders they succeeded in recovering a half-track and a gun that had been abandoned in "no man's land". The balance of the company continued to man its weapons, guarding against any further penetration. The town of St. Barthelmy was taken but the foe was unable to make any appreciable gain to the West of the village for Company "B's" stout anti-tank defense.
The powerful enemy thrust had failed far short of its objective. Innumerable were the acts of gallantry performed during those hectic days. With utter disregard for personal safety, and in the face of a superior and fanatic foe, the members of the Battalion fought on. Opportunities for honorable withdrawal presented themselves time after time, but the men refused to quit the struggle for possession of this vitally important area.
In this memorable encounter the Battalion set a new Army record for tanks destroyed in one day's action, and also for the number of enemy vehicles knocked out. When the Germans withdrew, the battlefield was practically devoid of vegetation. Hardly a house or building remained standing. But German equipment, including tanks, half-tracks, motorcycles, anti-tank guns, self-propelled guns, trucks, bicycles, and enemy dead, cluttered the ground.
Additional Sources: www.ngb.army.mil
home.nc.rr.com/oldhickory
www.823rdtdbn.org
home.earthlink.net/~crcorbin
www.normandiememoire.com
www.army.mil
www.normandie44lamemoire.com
www.dvrbs.com
www.mikerian.com
www.panzer-prints.com
www.skalman.nu
2
posted on
08/07/2003 12:01:13 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: All
'The Battle of Mortain, sandwiched neatly between Operation Cobra and the Falaise Gap, took place precisely at the most turbulent juncture of the Normandy campaign.
Mortain was the first large-scale German counteroffensive against the American Army on the European continent. In effect, a miniature "Battle of the Bulge" occurred in and around that picturesque Norman town in August 1944. It is no exaggeration to liken Mortain to the Ardennes Offensive, as the scale and objectives of each are roughly comparable. Both operations featured massed panzer units designed to rapidly smash through thinly held American lines to seize critical objectives. While Mortain involved elements of six German panzer and panzergrenadier divisions racing to seize two bridges twenty miles from their line of departure, the attacking force in the Ardennes included the equivalent of thirteen panzer and panzergrenadier divisions heading for Antwerp, approximately 100 miles from their starting point. In both battles, the Germans hoped that success would regain the strategic initiative for them while dealing a serious military setback to the Allies.
One of the reasons why Mortain has been overlooked is that even key participants have often devoted only a few pages to this battle. Eisenhower, and Bradley, both intimate that the German counteroffensive could not have succeeded. German accounts echo these sentiments by claiming that Hitler's attempts to mandate every detail of the counterattack deprived the panzer divisions of a reasonable chance of success. This line of reasoning tends to minimize Mortain's importance by labeling it as an incidental or insignificant battle within the overall Normandy campaign.
Capturing the individual soldier's experiences is necessary to understand the events that occurred at Mortain and during the Second World War as a whole. To overlook this viewpoint is to ignore that warfare is an intensely personal affair. A visit to one of the many German and American cemeteries in France will remind the reader of this fact. They contain thousands of soldiers who are forever eighteen. It is my hope that these young men who fought at Mortain and whose extraordinary efforts have not been fully appreciated in the scope of World War 2 historiography, will receive the recognition they deserve.' Charles R. Corbin Jr A-391st. Armored FA, CCB in T.F.Lovelady
'The chief credit in smashing the enemys spear-head must go to the rocket-firing Typhoon planes of the Second Tactical Air Force. The result of this strafing was that the enemy attack was effectively brought to a halt, and a threat was turned into a great victory.' General Eisenhower, reflecting on the role of airpower at the Battle of Mortain, where the German Army attempted to split the invasion front at Normandy, supreme allied commanders dispatch, 1945. |
3
posted on
08/07/2003 12:01:47 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: All
4
posted on
08/07/2003 12:02:18 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: PsyOp; Samwise; comitatus; copperheadmike; Monkey Face; WhiskeyPapa; New Zealander; Pukin Dog; ...
.......FALL IN to the FReeper Foxhole!
.......Good Thursday Morning Everyone!
If you would like added or removed from our ping list let me know.
5
posted on
08/07/2003 2:54:15 AM PDT
by
snippy_about_it
(I can't think of anything clever to put here)
To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; All
HOWDY EVERYBODY!
6
posted on
08/07/2003 3:04:06 AM PDT
by
Pippin
(Bush/Cheney in '04)
To: snippy_about_it; All
Good morning, Snippy and everybody at the Foxhole. How are things?
7
posted on
08/07/2003 3:04:47 AM PDT
by
E.G.C.
To: SAMWolf; PhilDragoo
Thank you both for today's thread.
This battle is full of bravery, courage, heroism and undaunted determination of many individuals, the 30th, isolated and out of supplies, the unfailing attempt by their rescuers, damn the bureaucracy.
Very moving as are all the battle threads, but this one, especially so. We never read of anything but honor on the part of our individual troops.
We have so much to be thankful for from the lost and the living of our Veterans. The telling of The Battle for Mortain certainly gets that message across.
To: Pippin
Morning Pippin.
To: E.G.C.
Morning EGC. Spent my morning reading this terrific thread. Now I need to hussle and get on to work.
To: SAMWolf

Today's classic warship, USS Wilson (DD-408)
Benham class destroyer
Displacement. 1,725 t.
Lenght. 341'4"
Beam. 35'6"
Draft. 10'9"
Speed. 38.5 k.
Complement. 184
Armament. 4 5", 4 .50-cal. mg., 16 21" tt., 2 dct.
USS Wilson (DD-408) was laid down on 22 March 1937 at Bremerton Wash., by the Puget Sound Navy Yard launched on ;2 April 1939; sponsored by Mrs. Edward B. Fenner, the wife of Rear Admiral Edward B. Fenner, the Commandant of the 13th Naval District, and commissioned on 5 July 1939, Lt. Comdr. Russell G. Sturges in command.
She operated along the west coasts of the United States, Central and South America into April 1940, when she went to Hawaii to participate in Fleet Problem XXI. In June 1941, after a year mainly spent in the Hawaiian area, Wilson was transferred to the Atlantic. In the last half of that year, and first months of 1942, she served an escort for major fleet units off the U.S. east coast and, in March-May 1942, steamed across the ocean to Iceland and the British Isles.
Wilson returned to the Pacific as part of a task group centered around USS Wasp, and accompanied it to the south Pacific in July 1942. Early in the next month, she provided bombardment and anti-aircraft services to the invasion force during landings at Guadalcanal and Tulagi. While in that area on 9 August, Wilson engaged Japanese cruisers during the Battle of Savo Island, and later rescued survivors of the sunken cruisers Quincy, Astoria and Vincennes.
Following a west coast overhaul, Wilson was back off Guadalcanal in January 1943, in time for the last weeks of the fighting there. She subsequently participated in landings on the Russell Islands, bombarded enemy positions on New Georgia and escorted shipping in and around the Solomon Islands. In November 1943, the destroyer screened U.S. aircraft carriers during strikes on Rabaul and Nauru and was similarly employed during attacks on the Marshall and Caroline Islands in January and February 1944.
In June and July 1944, Wilson served with the carrier task forces during the Marianas Campaign and the Battle of the Philippine Sea, and also fired her guns at small craft and shore targets at Guam. After overhaul work in August-October 1944, she battled enemy suicide planes in late December while escorting a convoy to Mindoro, in the central Philippines. The next month, Wilson again engaged hostile aircraft and shore positions during the Lingayen Gulf invasion. On 16 April 1945, during the campaign for Okinawa, she was hit by a "Kamikaze", which cost the lives of five of her crewmen and left an unexploded bomb in her after hull. Soon repaired, she served in the Okinawa area until June and operated out of Saipan until the war ended in August.
Wilson was employed on occupation duty until December 1945, when she returned to the U.S. west coast. In May of the next year, she was assigned to Operation "Crossroads" target duty. Made radioactive by the July atomic bomb tests at Bikini, USS Wilson was decommissioned in August 1946 and sunk in deep water off Kwajalein on 8 March 1948.
Wilson received 11 battle stars for her service during World War II.
11
posted on
08/07/2003 5:07:10 AM PDT
by
aomagrat
(IYAOYAS)
To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
I'm in.
Sounded like it was comparable to fishing.
The Anti-Tank guns waiting for the tank to 'take the bait' and 'swim' into range of the hook.
Thank God our soldiers held out like they did, otherwise German would be the language heard in most places.
Or so it seems.
12
posted on
08/07/2003 6:05:32 AM PDT
by
Darksheare
("Liberals, fodder for the Dogs of War.")
To: Darksheare
Good Morning Darksheare.
Thank God is right. It seems this was a very decisive battle.
To: snippy_about_it
Morning.
If teh Germans had been able to stop our advance there, or worse break through our lines, they could have brought more troops in and pretty much inflated the pocket.
Might have allowed for them to retake what we had already liberated.
Thankfully, Hitler became more paranoid and delusional, micromanaging everything to death. Especially later on in the war.
And, the Germans didn't count so much on our soldiers holding out like that.
14
posted on
08/07/2003 6:24:23 AM PDT
by
Darksheare
("Liberals, fodder for the Dogs of War.")
To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; Darksheare
Good morning everyone!!
To: bentfeather
Morning.
Not much going on my way.
16
posted on
08/07/2003 6:35:36 AM PDT
by
Darksheare
("Liberals, fodder for the Dogs of War.")
To: Darksheare
So true. I think time and again our enemies are surprised by the might and courage of our troops. Now if we could just turn them loose in Iraq they would fear us as they should.
To: bentfeather
Good morning feather.
To: snippy_about_it
But if that happened, then the left wuld have to admit that Political Correctness not only doesn't work, but gets people killed.
They'd also have to admit that soldiers soldier best when left to do what they were trained to do.
19
posted on
08/07/2003 7:06:00 AM PDT
by
Darksheare
("Liberals, fodder for the Dogs of War.")
To: snippy_about_it
Good Morning Snippy!

Picked some wildflowers while I was camping.
20
posted on
08/07/2003 7:23:11 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: Pippin
Hi Pippin. How you been?
21
posted on
08/07/2003 7:23:39 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: E.G.C.
Morning E.G.C.
22
posted on
08/07/2003 7:24:33 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: snippy_about_it
You're welcome Snippy.
23
posted on
08/07/2003 7:25:51 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: aomagrat
she was hit by a "Kamikaze", which cost the lives of five of her crewmen and left an unexploded bomb in her after hull.She was lucky, a lot of DD's and DE's didn't survive Kamikaze hits.
24
posted on
08/07/2003 7:29:02 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: bentfeather
Good Morning Feather.
25
posted on
08/07/2003 7:30:02 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: Darksheare
I can dream can't I? :)
To: SAMWolf
Well my goodness SAM, what a welcome surprise. Good morning. Thank you for the flowers, they are lovely.
To: snippy_about_it
Morning Glory Kids~
Hats off to PhilDragoo and Godly thanks to the courage and valor of these soldiers.
Where are you France?
28
posted on
08/07/2003 7:56:06 AM PDT
by
w_over_w
(Have you ever seen a fish on a wall with its mouth shut?)
To: SAMWolf
On This Day In History
Birthdates which occurred on August 07:
317 Constantius II Roman emperor (337-61)
1598 Georg Stiernhielm "father of Swedish poetry" (Hercules)
1742 Nathanael Greene American Revolutionary War General
1779 Carl Ritter cofounder of modern science of geography
1783 John Heathcoat inventor (lace-making machinery)
1876 Mata Hari dancer/courtesan/spy (WW I)
1885 Billie Burke Washington DC, actress (Glinda-The Wizard of Oz)
1886 Louis Hazeltine inventor (neutrodyne circuit, making radio possible)
1896 Ernesto Lecuona Havana Cuba, composer (Malague¤a)
1903 Louis Leakey anthropologist (1964 Richard Hooper Medal)
1904 Ralph J Bunche a founder & UN diplomat (Nobel 1950)
1921 Karel Husa Prague Czechoslovakia, composer (Trojan Women)
1926 Stan Freberg LA Calif, satirist/ad executive
1927 Edwin W Edwards (Gov-La)
1928 Amazing "James" Randi Toronto Ontario, skeptic magician
1929 Don Larsen pitcher (NY Yankees), on what must have been a perfect day
1929 Ruth Carter-Stapleton Plains Ga, 1st sister/evangelist
1932 Ann Harding US, actress (East is West, Janie)
1938 Helen Caldicott Melbourne Australia, physician/anti-war activist
1940 Marlyn Mason San Fernando Cal, actress (Making It, Peyton Place)
1942 Anjanette Comer Dawson Tx, actress (Baby, Lepke)
1942 B.J. Thomas singer (Raindrops, Growing Pains Theme)
1942 Garrison Keillor PBS radio personality (Prairie Home Companion)
1943 Lana Cantrell Sydney, Australia, singer (Those Were the Days)
1944 John Glover Kingston NY, actor (52 Pick-Up, Something Special)
1945 Alan Page defensive tackle (Minn Vikings)
1950 David James Wottle 800m runner (Olympic-gold-1972)
1950 Rodney Crowell singer/guitarist (for Emmylou Harris)
1951 Gary Hall swimmer (Olympic-bronze-1976)
1956 Kent V Rominger Del Norte Colo, US Navy Lt Commander/astronaut
1957 Aleksandr Ditiatin USSR, gymnast (Olympic-gold-1980)
1958 Alberto Salazar marathoner (NYC Marathon Winner)
1958 Bruce Dickinson heavy metal rocker (Iron Maiden-Run to Hills)
1958 Larisa Karlova USSR, team handball player (Olympic-gold-1976, 80)
1960 Jacquie O'Sullivan rocker (Bananarama-Venus)
1961 Yelena Davydova USSR, gymnast (Olympic-gold-1980)
1963 Marcus Lewis Pontiac Mich, singer (Sing me a Song)
1967 Charlotte Lewis Kensington London, actress (Golden Child, Pirates)
1969 David Hollander LA Calif, actor (Lewis & Clark, What's Happenings?)
197- Josh A Andrew Koenig actor (Boner-Growing Pains)
Deaths which occurred on August 07:
1106 Henry IV, Holy Roman Emperor (1056/84-1105), dies at 54
1867 Ira Aldridge actor dies at 63 in Lodes Poland
1931 Leon Bismarck "Bix" Beiderbecke, jazz cornetist (In Mist), dies at 29
1957 Oliver Hardy comedian of Laurel & Hardy, dies at 65
1969 Russ Morgan orch leader (Welcome Aboard), dies at 65
1972 Joi Lansing actress (Bob Cummings Show), dies at 44 of cancer
1976 Murvyn Vye actor (Bob Cummings Show), dies at 63
1991 Shotzie Cincinnati Red dog mascot, dies at 9
2000 Sir Alec Guinness (Obi-Wan Kenobi) died at a southern England hospital at age 86
Reported: MISSING in ACTION
1965 GRAY HAROLD EDWIN JR. NEW YORK NY.
1966 BRAZELTON MICHAEL L. INGLEWOOD CA.
[03/04/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE AND WELL 98]
1966 FRYER CHARLES WIGGER OKLAHOMA CITY OK.
1966 GIDEON WILLARD S. SILVER SPRINGS MD.
[03/04/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE IN 98]
1966 MORAN RICHARD ALLAN FORT SMITH AR.
1966 PYLE THOMAS S. NEW CASTLE DE.
[03/04/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE AND WELL 98]
1966 SANDVICK ROBERT J. GLASGOW MT.
[03/04/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE IN 98]
1966 WENDELL JOHN H. HOUSTON TX.
[03/04/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE IN 98]
1967 CHAMBERS CARL D. SANTA MONICA CA.
[03/14/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE AND WELL 98]
1967 WILSON GLENN H. ST. ALBANS WV.
[03/14/73 RELEASED BY DRV, DECEASED]
1971 BERG BRUCE A. OLYMPIA WA.
POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.
On this day...
0626 Battle at Constantinople: Slavic/Persians/Avarenvloot defeated
768 Stephen III begins his reign as Catholic Pope
1498 Columbus arrives in Caribbean
1620 Kepler's mother arrested for witchcraft
1760 Ft Loudon Tennessee surrenders to Cherokee Indians
1782 George Washington creates Order of the Purple Heart
1789 US War Department established
1819 Battle of Boyac ; Bol¡var defeats Spanish in Colombia
1820 1st potatoes planted in Hawaii
1882 Hatfields of south WV & McCoys of east Ky feud, 100 wounded or die
1888 Theophilus Van Kannel of Phila patents revolving door
1893 53rd Congress (1893-95) convenes
1906 In North Carolina, a mob defies a court order and lynches three African Americans which becomes known as "The Lyerly Murders.
1909 US issues 1st Lincoln penny
1912 Progressive (Bull Moose) Party nominates Theodore Roosevelt for pres
1927 Peace Bridge between US & Canada dedicated
1929 Ruth ties record by hitting grand slams in consecutive games
1934 US Court of Appeals upheld lower court ruling striking down govt's attempt to ban controversial James Joyce novel "Ulysses"
1935 60% of voters agrees to Nazism (NSDAP) in Danzig (Gdansk)
1938 Nazi's close theology department of Innsbruck university
1938 2 die in a NYC subway accident
1940 Largest amount paid for a stamp ($45,000 for 1 1856 British Guiana)
1941 551 Jews are shot in Kishnev ghetto in Romania
1942 1st American offensive in Pacific in WW2, Guadalcanal, Solomon Is
1946 1st coin bearing portrait of Negro authorized
1947 Balsa raft Kon Tiki crashes into a Polynesian archipelago reef
1951 Douglas D-558-II Skyrocket reaches 1,992 kph
1953 Eastern Airlines enters the jet age, uses Electra prop-jet
1954 Charles Mahoney becomes 1st US black to serve as a full UN delegate
1959 Explorer 6 transmits 1st TV photo of Earth from space
1960 Ivory Coast (Cte d'Ivoire) gains independence from France
1960 Students stage kneel-in demonstrations in Atlanta churches
1961 Cosmonaut Gherman Titov circles Earth for a full day in Vostok 2
1963 Jac Kennedy becomes 1st, 1st lady to give birth since Mrs Cleveland
1964 US Congress approves Gulf of Tonkin resolution
1966 Race riot in Lansing Michigan
1966 The United States loses seven planes over North Vietnam, the most in the war up to this point.
1970 1st computer chess tournament
1970 4, including presiding judge, killed in courthouse shootout in San Rafael, Calif (Police charge Angela Davis provided weapons)
1971 Apollo 15 returns to Earth
1972 Hall of Fame inducts Berra, Sandy Koufax, Lefty Gomez & Early Wynn
1974 Philippe Petit walks tightrope strung between the twin towers of the World Trade Center
1976 US Viking 2 goes into Martian orbit after 11-month flight from Earth
1976 Scientists in Pasadena, Calif, announce Viking I found strongest indications to date of possible life on Mars
1978 Thousands of mourners file past the body of Pope Paul VI
1983 1st World Track & Field Championships
1983 Bobby Murcer day at Yankee Stadium
1983 Grete Waitz of Norway, wins 1st all-women Marathon (Helsinki Fin)
1983 Some 675,000 employees strike AT&T
1984 Japan beats US for olympic gold medal in baseball
1984 Jim Deshales becomes 1,000th playing Yankee
1985 Barbra Streisand records "The Broadway Album"
1985 Baseball players end a 2 day strike
1986 Daniel Buettner, Bret Anderson, Martin Engel & Anne Knabe begin cycling journey of 15,266 miles from Prudhoe Bay Alaska to Argentina
1987 5 Central American presidents sign peace accord in Guatemala
1987 Lynne Cox swims 4.3 km from US to USSR in 39ø F (4ø C) Bering Sea
1988 Writers guild end their 6 months strike
1990 Desert Shield begin-US deploys troops to Saudi Arabia
1990 Saudi Arabia allows US troops on their soil to stop an Iraqi invasion
1990 NY Yankee Kevin Mass sets record with 12th HR in 1st 92 at bats & becomes 21st to hit a ball into 3rd deck of Seattle's Kingdome
1991 Court rules Manuel Noriega, may access some secret US documents
1991 Manhattan Cable final day of amnesty to return illegal cable boxes
1991 US sets 400m relay record at 37.67 seconds
2000 Vice President and Democratic presidential candidate Al Gore selected Connecticut Sen. Joseph Lieberman as his running mate.
2001 The Vatican denounced what it called a "slanderous campaign" against the Roman Catholic Church over the Holocaust-era pope, Pius XII.
Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"
Tightrope Walking Day
National Sandwich Month
Columbia : Battle of Boyac (1819)
Ivory Coast/Cte d'Ivoire : Independence Day (1760)
Trinidad & Tobago : Discovery Day (1498)
Arizona, Michigan : American Family Day - - - - - ( Sunday )
Italy : Joust of the Quintana (1st Sunday) - - - - - ( Sunday )
Bahamas, Barbados, Turks & Caicos Island : Emancipation Day (1838) - - - - - ( Monday )
British Commonwealth : Bank Holiday - - - - - ( Monday )
Canada : Civic Holiday (1st Monday) - - - - - ( Monday )
Colorado : Colorado Day (1876) - - - - - ( Monday )
Jamaica : Independence Day (1962) - - - - - ( Monday )
St Christopher-Nevis-Anguilla : August Monday - - - - - ( Monday )
US : National Smile Week begins - - - - - ( Monday )
Grasmere England : Rush-Bearing Day - - - - - ( Saturday )
Religious Observances
Ang, Episcopal : Feast of Holy Name of Jesus
RC : Memorial of Sixtus II, pope, & his companions, martyrs (opt)
RC, Ang : Memorial of St Cajetan, confessor (opt)
Ang : Commemoration of John Mason Neale, priest
Religious History
0117 Death of Marcus Trajan, 65, Roman emperor from A.D. 98-117. His attitude toward Christianity gradually changed from toleration to persecution. It was during Trajan's rule that Apostolic Father Ignatius of Antioch was martyred.
1409 The Council of Pisa closed. Convened to end the Great Schism (1378-1417) caused by two rival popes, the Council in fact elected a third pope, Alexander V (afterwards regarded as an antipope).
1560 Ratification of the Scots Confession by the Scottish Parliament marked the triumph of the Reformation in Scotland, under the leadership of John Knox. (In 1647, the Scots Confession was superseded by the Westminster Confession.)
1852 Birth of Franklin L. Sheppard, Presbyterian organist and hymnbook editor. It was Sheppard who composed the hymn tune TERRA PATRIS, to which we sing "This is My Father's World."
1878 Missouri Synod Lutheran Church founder C. F. W. Walther wrote in a letter: 'Do not deny the Word of God when it speaks to you.'
Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.
Thought for the day :
"Character is like a tree and reputation like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing."
You might be from Florida if...
Your idea of a mountain is 100 feet above sea level.
Murphys Law of the day...(Bus Law)
If you're running late the bus will be too
Cliff Clavin says, it's a little known fact that...
1903 Alexander Winton set the 1st land speed record in car racing. Set at Daytona Beach, his speed was 68.18 mph.
29
posted on
08/07/2003 8:03:38 AM PDT
by
Valin
(America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy.)
To: w_over_w
This picture says so much, it caught my eye too when I read the thread this morning and you comment is excellent. It seems france forgot so quickly of our sacrifices to free them.
To: radu; snippy_about_it; LaDivaLoca; TEXOKIE; cherry_bomb88; Bethbg79; Do the Dew; Pippin; ...
Our Military Today Still Under Fire
 U.S. Army soldiers take cover after an American military vehicle was destroyed allegedly by a rocket attack in downtown Baghdad, Iraq on Thursday Aug. 7, 2003. (AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
 A U.S.Army soldier points his weapon towards a building after an American military vehicle was destroyed, allegedly by a rocket attack, in downtown Baghdad, Iraq on Thursday Aug. 7, 2003. (AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
 A U.S .Army soldier takes cover after an American military vehicle was destroyed, allegedly by a rocket attack, in downtown Baghdad, Iraq on Thursday Aug. 7, 2003. (AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
 People come out with their hands up from a building that came under American military forces after an American military vehicle was destroyed, allegedly by an rocket attack, in downtown Baghdad, Iraq on Thursday Aug. 7, 2003.(AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
 U.S. Army soldiers run towards a forward position after an American military vehicle was destroyed, allegedly by a rocket attack, in downtown Baghdad, Iraq on Thursday Aug. 7, 2003. (AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
 A U.S. Army Bradley fighting vehicle fires rounds into a building after an American military vehicle was destroyed, allegedly by a rocket attack, in downtown Baghdad, Iraq on Thursday Aug. 7, 2003. (AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
 People come out with their hands up from a building that came under American military forces after after an American military vehicle was destroyed, allegedly by rocket-propelled grenades, in downtown Baghdad, Iraq on Thursday Aug. 7, 2003.(AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
 U.S.Army soldiers take cover after an American military vehicle was destroyed allegedly by rocket-propelled grenades in downtown Baghdad, Iraq on Thursday July 7, 2003.(AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
 A U.S. Army soldier helps a woman out of a building that came under American fire after an American military vehicle was destroyed allegedly by rocket-propelled grenades in downtown Baghdad, Iraq on Thursday Aug. 7, 2003. (AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
 U.S. Army soldiers take cover after an American military vehicle was destroyed, allegedly by a rocket attack, in downtown Baghdad, Iraq on Thursday Aug. 7, 2003.(AP Photo/Dario Lopez-Mills)
|
31
posted on
08/07/2003 8:06:43 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: SAMWolf
Oooops! See #28 . . . two sips of Joe and I forget to ping da man!
32
posted on
08/07/2003 8:07:39 AM PDT
by
w_over_w
(Have you ever seen a fish on a wall with its mouth shut?)
To: w_over_w
two sips of Joe and I forget to ping da man!Not to worry, he wouldn't miss it, he reads every post, but he still likes pings. :)
To: SAMWolf
Great pictures SAM, that women sure looks relieved to be in the arms of one of our solidiers. I would be too!
To: *all
|
Air Power Hawker Typhoon
 |
The Typhoons developmental life was so trouble that the entire project risked cancellations. The core of the problem were the untried powerplants that suffered from teething problems for wuite some time. Two prototypes were developed, the R-type Tornado equiped with the Vulture power plant and the N-type Typhoon equipped with the Napier Sabre. The Tornado prototype was eventually cancelled when the Vulture powerplant was abandoned. Production was delayed by the pressing need for Hurricanes and eventually the Typhoon's production was contracted to Gloster once development was complete.
The Typhoon began to enter service with Nos 56 and 609 squadrons at Duxford in September of 1941. Unfortunately the type still suffered problems, the Sabre powerplant proved to be unreliable and the rear fuselage had an annoying habit of coming apart. Once again the Typhoon risked cancellation but held on long enough for the problems to be resolved and a niche to be found. In late 1941 the Typhoon gained favour by demonstrating it's ability to catch Luftwaffe Fighter-Bombers that were making hit and run nuissance raids.
In 1943 the Typhoon's reputation grew as it descended on France and the Low countries and shot-up anything that moved. The type, now thoroughly developed and reliable became the premier ground attack aircraft of the RAF and proved particulayly suitable for operations from forward strips. Of the 3,330 Typhoons built, most (3,000 odd) had a bubble type canopy instead of the heavy framed canopy of the earlier type. The car style door was also deleted on these latter types. Further development of this aircraft led to the design of the Tempest
Specifications:
Origin: Hawker Aircraft Ltd
Manufacturer: Gloster Aircraft Company
Type: Originally heavy interceptor, later fighter bomber/ground-attack aircraft
Accommodation: Single pilot in enclosed cockpit
History: First flight (prototype) January 1938
First flight: 24th February 1940
First production delivery: 27th May 1941
Final production delivery: November 1945
Operational Equipment: Standard communications and navigational equipment, reflector gunsight, later sights for rockets and bomb-aiming.
Powerplant: Typhoon Mk IA/IB Napier Sabre IIA 2,180hp
Weights: Empty - 8,800lbs 4000kg / Loaded: 13,250lbs 6023kg
Dimensions:
Wingspan: 41ft 7in 12.67m
Length: 31ft 11in 9.73m
Height: 15ft 3 ½in 4.66m
Performance :
Maximum speed: 412mph 664kph
Initial climb: 3000 ft 914m/min
Service ceiling: 35,200ft 10,730m
Range: (with bombs) 510 miles 821km
Range: (drop tanks) 980 miles 1577km
Armaments:
Typhoon Mk IA: 12x 0.303-inch Browning machine guns
Typhoon Mk IB:
4x 20mm Hispano cannon,
+8x 60lb (27kg) rocket projectile,
Or 2x 500lb (227kg) bombs,
Later, 2x 1000lb bombs





All photos Copyright of:
http://WWII Tech and War Birds Resource Group
35
posted on
08/07/2003 8:19:02 AM PDT
by
Johnny Gage
(Optimistic Apathy: Everything will be OK, if not, who cares.)
To: Valin
1942 1st American offensive in Pacific in WW2, Guadalcanal, Solomon Is
Guadalcanal - Operation Shoestring
During the first six months of the war in the Pacific, the Navy had blunted Japanese expansion into Australia and New Zealand at the Battle of the Coral Sea and had cut the mighty Japanese carrier navy down to size at Midway. Finally, U.S. forces were taking the first tenuous step in their bloody, island-hopping march toward Tokyo.
The Marines primary objective was a rudimentary landing strip constructed by the Japanese on Guadalcanal in the weeks preceding the invasion. Although poorly supplied and undermanned, the Leathernecks captured the airstrip in one day, dubbed it Henderson Field in memory of a Marine Corps pilot killed at Midway, then dug in. For the next four disease-ridden months they defended it against repeated naval, air and land assaults by a determined enemy.
The regional balance of air and naval forces strongly favored the Japanese. As a consequence, tons of supplies including food and other provisions that were to have come ashore did not. Intelligence about the island was lacking. Reinforcements were not immediately available. Hence, the unofficial name "Operation Shoestring."
Living and working conditions on Guadalcanal were miserable as well as dangerous. Mosquitoes, leeches, chiggers and flesh eating ants gnawed at the men in the field, while rats spread typhus. Malaria, dysentery and various other jungle diseases were so rampant that anyone with a temperature of 103 degrees or less was considered fit for duty. In his book Victory at Guadalcanal, author Robert Edward Lee records one Marines cynical observation: "If the world needed an enema, this would be the right place to put in the hose!"
Air support operations began 13 days after the invasion with the arrival of a Marine fighter squadron and a squadron of Navy dive-bombers. They were soon augmented by a detachment of Army Air Force fighter-bombers from New Caledonia. As Cactus was the Allied code name for Guadalcanal, this unconventional collection of planes and fliers came to be known as "The Cactus Air Force."
Among the AAF pilots who joined the Cactus Air Force early on was Captain John A. Thompson, a name often lost among the shadows of aviation legends like Marine Corps pilots John Smith and Marion Carl, the first American triple aces of the war, Joe Foss, the USMCs all-time second leading ace and Black Sheep leader "Pappy" Boyington.
The struggle for Guadalcanal spawned acts of courage and heroism by members of all of the participating allied military forces.
36
posted on
08/07/2003 8:19:11 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: snippy_about_it; w_over_w
I'm sure that france is a lot like the US.
The small towns and villages in the interior still honoor and remember the sacrifices made by the Allies to liberate them, its the "academics" and big city "elite" who spit on the memory of our fallen.
37
posted on
08/07/2003 8:21:49 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: w_over_w
Don't worry about it, Snippy and I both read the entire thread so we see the posts whether we're pinged or not.
38
posted on
08/07/2003 8:23:46 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: snippy_about_it
Yes.
And dream I do.
39
posted on
08/07/2003 8:28:08 AM PDT
by
Darksheare
("Liberals, fodder for the Dogs of War.")
To: Johnny Gage
Thanks Johnny.
All German accounts I've read about Normandy stress the impact that Allied Tac Air (especially the Typhoons) had on troop movements, re-supply and morale. It was the Germans worst nightmare.

40
posted on
08/07/2003 8:31:47 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Drop the vase and it will become a Ming of the past.)
To: Johnny Gage
Thanks for the Typhoon profile. Like your tagline too. lol.
To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it
Don't worry about it, Snippy and I both read the entire thread so we see the posts whether we're pinged or not.Roger that . . . it's a "protocol" thing with me.
42
posted on
08/07/2003 8:32:09 AM PDT
by
w_over_w
(Have you ever seen a fish on a wall with its mouth shut?)
To: w_over_w
Protocol..I know what you mean, I hate when I forget someone on a ping. I need to slow down sometimes. ;)
To: snippy_about_it
What you said about our soldiers, Snippy. Very true, indeed.
Last night I was listening to Phil Hendrie, being in a mood for sick humor. He found out a couple of fans were soldiers in the Iraq campaign who amused themselves doing Phil characters to each other in between engagements with the enemy. Reminded me of the Victor Davis Hanson description of our troops. I can just picture two young guys in sunglasses cracking each other up with impressions while getting their heavy weapons ready to rock and roll.
To: SAMWolf
Thanks for the pix and the reminder, Sam. Most of Iraq is pretty quiet, but there's still a war going on in the Sunni heartland, where Saddam's deadenders are still shooting at us.
From other news it sounds like the 4th I.D. has picked up the tempo in Tikrit and is capturing or killing those guys in good numbers. I saw on another thread a senior commander nicknamed "Rock" was just captured.
To: colorado tanker
Thanks colorado tanker, we not only produce great soldiers but I've always thought we have a great sense of humor in this country.
To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Howdy, all .. a shade late getting to the thread today, a busy morning here.
Seems like the most interesting threads always contain a website link that's fun to look at. Lots of cool pics of PzVI-E's today. I'm glad there weren't more of those around during the battle (the tanks, not the prints).
Have a great day!
47
posted on
08/07/2003 12:56:57 PM PDT
by
Colonel_Flagg
("I like a man who grins when he fights." - Sir Winston Churchill)
To: snippy_about_it
but I've always thought we have a great sense of humor in this country Right, unlike the French who think Jerry Lewis is funny and the Germans who don't think anyone is funny.
To: colorado tanker
LOL! Yeah, like that!
To: Colonel_Flagg
LOL. Leave it to SAM to find good pics of tanks. He's a drooler when it comes to tanks!
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