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GAY PRO-LIFE LEADERS ARRESTED AT NATIONAL PRO-LIFE MARCH
www.PLAGAL.org ^ | Jan 22, 2002 | PLAGAL

Posted on 01/23/2002 6:22:00 AM PST by helmsman

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I may be setting off a firestorm here, but here goes anyway. Let me first say that I am extremely grateful for all that Nellie Gray has done for the pro-life cause in all of her years of activism. However, after having put up with her irrational hatred of gay pro-lifers for so long, I believe that she has now finally crossed the line. To have fellow pro-lifers arrested, due soley to her belief that homosexuality is somehow a vastly more egregious sin than any other, is an impossibly hypocritical, cruel, and senile act.

Not to mention that, as challenged for allies as the pro-life movement is these days, to shove people away because they happen to be, like every other living human being (according to the teachings of Jesus Christ), living in sin, is ridiculously self-defeating.

So now, thanks to Nellie Gray's actions, the March For Life, which is supposed to be about saving babies from abortion, has been turned into a controversy about homosexual pro-lifers and their right to protest alongside others. I may be the only one here who feels this, but I am profoundly ashamed.

1 posted on 01/23/2002 6:22:01 AM PST by helmsman
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To: helmsman
It does seem rather odd they would have pro-lifers arrested.
2 posted on 01/23/2002 6:25:16 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: AppyPappy
There's got to be more to this. It just doesn't ring true.
3 posted on 01/23/2002 6:30:14 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: helmsman
Gay people should have an interest in abortion issues. Gay proponents claim that being gay is genetic, sooner or later some scientist is going to "prove" the gene exists. There lies the trap. What is going to prevent parents aborting fetuses after a genetic screening showing it may be "gay"?? Aborting fetuses because it is "gay" will not sit well with the gay community. In the long run the gay community and the abortion community is going to clash on this issue. It may not happen if both communities come together and write Politically Correct abortion laws - abortion allowed for all cases except "gay" fetuses. Conservatives will have a field day with that one.
4 posted on 01/23/2002 6:32:25 AM PST by Fee
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To: helmsman
Interesting accusation, but I doubt we have the whole story here. It smells like a manufactured incident, intended from the get-go to culminate in an indignant press release.
5 posted on 01/23/2002 6:36:45 AM PST by Romulus
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To: helmsman
. The arrests were conducted by the United States Park Police by direct orders of Miss Nellie Gray the March for Life Leader and holder of the permit, according to the Park Police.

There's more to it than the homosexuals are telling. The police don't arrest people on the "orders" of a civilian. I would guess these folks started behaving a lot worse than they're letting on.

I'm curious as to why the gay group is so adamant about putting their group's name on their banner. Why do they have their own group? What does their choice of sexual practices have to do with the issue of abortion, anyway?

6 posted on 01/23/2002 6:39:16 AM PST by mountaineer
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To: sheik yerbouty
I agree, something is wrong.

Were they passing out some type of offensive literature?
I'm sure there is more to this than what the article states.

7 posted on 01/23/2002 6:40:11 AM PST by pubmom
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To: mountaineer
Exactly.
8 posted on 01/23/2002 6:41:55 AM PST by pubmom
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To: Fee
Aborting fetuses because it is "gay" will not sit well with the gay community. In the long run the gay community and the abortion community is going to clash on this issue.

A simply brilliant point, Fee. If the pro-abortion mentality continues (when a baby is, in any way, less than perfect, abort it) then parents will readily abort their gay unborn babies, should they detect this gay gene in a prenatal test. It may very well turn out to be that, in the future, gays may owe their continued existence soley to the refusal of pro-life parents to abort them.

9 posted on 01/23/2002 6:43:48 AM PST by helmsman
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To: helmsman;*BRAAD; JMJ333; Tourist Guy; EODGUY; proud2bRC; abandon; Khepera; Dakmar; RichInOC...
Arresting homosexuals is good for society and the nation. It should be done whenever these people flaunt their lifestyles in public. Its for the children.
10 posted on 01/23/2002 6:44:23 AM PST by Khepera
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To: helmsman
I know a lot about this incident and what led up to it because several of these people are good friends, and I was there two years ago when the Park Police attempted a similar arrest on Nellie Gray's orders. Miss Gray has grown testier and testier about the political leanings of participants in "her" march--and she alone holds the permit for it. Three years ago she ordered PLAGAL out of the march, and the group did leave. Then, two years ago, after extensive conversations with the group, she tried to have the leaders arrested. The police backed off, fortunately, and Father Frank Pavone (of Priests for Life) personally intervened and thanked PLAGAL for participating. I don't know what happened last year, but I was not surprised to see an arrest this year.

I am deeply disturbed that a single woman is attempting to dictate who can and cannot declare him or herself a pro-lifer. Banners abound at the march for every sort of cause, including the "ex-gay" movement. The PLAGAL people are very sincere pro-lifers who take a beating in the gay community for their public stance (at Pride rallies, for instance, where abortion-rights people come out in force). For them to be turned away from the March for Life is outrageous and self-defeating.

11 posted on 01/23/2002 6:47:04 AM PST by madprof98
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To: helmsman
Consider the source:

www.PLAGAL.org

12 posted on 01/23/2002 6:48:05 AM PST by truthandlife
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To: mountaineer
I'm curious as to why the gay group is so adamant about putting their group's name on their banner. Why do they have their own group?

Probably for the same reason that feminists, blacks, and people of various different religions have their own groups -- to show that the pro-life movement is diverse and contains people from all walks of life, not just women-hating white religious men, as is often the liberal media's portrait of the movement.

13 posted on 01/23/2002 6:48:58 AM PST by helmsman
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To: helmsman
Homosexuality is the culture of death, or at least a modus operandi of free will and determined anti-procreationism, a lifestyle that accounts for no acceptance of one of the basic tenants of human nature and scientific reality: that of the generation or regeneration of human life and furthering of the human species.

They have no business pushing their gay agenda, which is probably more important to them than the abortion issue, IMHO.

14 posted on 01/23/2002 6:50:45 AM PST by AmericanInTokyo
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To: helmsman
Probably for the same reason that feminists, blacks, and people of various different religions have their own groups -- to show that the pro-life movement is diverse and contains people from all walks of life, not just women-hating white religious men, as is often the liberal media's portrait of the movement.

That is EXACTLY right! PLAGAL and similar groups (like Feminists for Life) have been trying for years to get media coverage of their opposition to abortion. PLAGAL shows up at Gay Pride rallies to make the point that people need not agree with all the views of the conservative Right in order to take a stand against the tragedy of abortion. I think the pro-life movement should advertise its diversity instead of stifling it. It would do a lot to counteract the image the media has presented.

15 posted on 01/23/2002 6:52:25 AM PST by madprof98
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: truthandlife
I'll bet Paul Harvey would have more on this tip of the iceberg, i.e. there is most probably a "rest of the story" re: this staged incident that the 'victims' are not telling us.
17 posted on 01/23/2002 6:54:57 AM PST by AmericanInTokyo
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To: Khepera; pubmom
I was there, I didn't see this happen. The entire event was handled very peacefully and tastefully. pubmom, you said you didn't see anything negative.

I also suspect something more than this release tells. I also have a problem with one quote.

"That's as offensive as telling an African American, 'you can ride on the bus, but just sit in the back.'"

Black isn't a behavior, it's a skin color. If someone had been there with a sign proclaiming, "Gangstas for life" I'd have probably had a problem with it, no matter how many congressmen they promised to lobby or no matter how much fundraising they promised to do.

If Nellie doesn't want her group affiliated with homosexuals, it doesn't have to be. The whiners can go arrange their own march.

Shalom.

18 posted on 01/23/2002 6:55:40 AM PST by ArGee
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To: AmericanInTokyo
Homosexuality is the culture of death..

I don't see how not reproducing is equivalent to killing or death. As I've pointed out in the past, there has never been a single unborn baby that has met dismemberment due to an act of homosexual activity. Heterosexual activity, on the other hand, has indirectly led to millions of abortions. The fault lies with the individuals who decide to abort, of course, not the sex itself. But perhaps you see what I mean.

19 posted on 01/23/2002 6:56:04 AM PST by helmsman
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To: ArGee
IMHO, it seems to be a subtle, clever ploy to promote the gay agenda within prolife circles (infiltration, co-option, slick PR) than a viceversa of a pro-life co-opting of the gay movement.
20 posted on 01/23/2002 6:58:10 AM PST by AmericanInTokyo
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To: helmsman
It appears the group is more concerned with pushing its "gay" agenda than with protesting legalized abortion. Ending the slaughter of unborn children has nothing to do with the type of sexual activity one might enjoy in his or her private life. It looks to me like they went out looking for a fight (so they could whine about their mistreatment), and found one.
21 posted on 01/23/2002 6:58:58 AM PST by mountaineer
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To: helmsman
not really, but I appreciate your tenacious civility.
22 posted on 01/23/2002 6:59:04 AM PST by AmericanInTokyo
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To: madprof98
PLAGAL shows up at Gay Pride rallies to make the point that people need not agree with all the views of the conservative Right in order to take a stand against the tragedy of abortion.

You are absolutely right as usual, madprof98. The pro-life movement is hurt if it's image is one of exclusion and intolerance. One need not approve of a group's lifestyle to accept it's help in a just and righteous cause.

23 posted on 01/23/2002 7:01:11 AM PST by helmsman
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To: ArGee
bump
24 posted on 01/23/2002 7:02:40 AM PST by homeschool mama
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To: helmsman
Your source is suspect!
25 posted on 01/23/2002 7:03:52 AM PST by verity
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To: AmericanInTokyo
IMHO, it seems to be a subtle, clever ploy to promote the gay agenda within prolife circles (infiltration, co-option, slick PR) than a viceversa of a pro-life co-opting of the gay movement.

That seems likely. If they were really sincere, they could try to test Nellie.

Have a group go next year in white sheets and hoods. Let them carry a banner proclaiming, "Klansmen for Life." If Nellie doesn't ask that they be removed, I'll agree with the homosexuals that they are being mistreated. I suspect that "Klansmen for Life" wouldn't be tolerated.

And I would expect those homosexuals to jumpt to the defense of the Klansmen and demand that Nellie let everyone in who wants in.

Shalom.

26 posted on 01/23/2002 7:04:47 AM PST by ArGee
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To: verity
Your source is suspect!

Because they're gay? Is that the only reason they are automatically suspect?

27 posted on 01/23/2002 7:07:08 AM PST by helmsman
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To: helmsman
I don't see how not reproducing is equivalent to killing or death.

It isn't directly. But both abortion and homosexual "pride" are symptoms of the same evil, the idea that human beings can establish their own moral order based on their own understanding of how things work. We're eating of the same fruit of which Adam and Eve ate, and it's bearing the same destructive fruit. Abortion and homosexuality are two results of that fruit.

Shalom.

28 posted on 01/23/2002 7:08:02 AM PST by ArGee
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: verity
The same information (minus the quotes from PLAGAL) was posted on the Pro-Life Infonet this morning. It came from a newswire article. I think the general reaction to this post here indicates the problem which most holds back the pro-life movement. Pro-lifers seem willing to embrace just about any group that claims the mantle of conservatism but shun everybody else. Unfortunately, the groups claiming that mantle are not in the majority in this country, and more mainstream people (many of them distressed about abortion) are not willing to associate themselves with those they consider to be on the political and social fringe of society.
30 posted on 01/23/2002 7:09:28 AM PST by madprof98
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To: sheik yerbouty
I am sure there is more to this than the above printed word.
31 posted on 01/23/2002 7:09:37 AM PST by 1 FELLOW FREEPER
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To: helmsman
Personally, I'm fascinated that such a subculture exists. Gay pro-lifers! Just goes to show you when you think you've seen it all, you haven't, especially in this country.
32 posted on 01/23/2002 7:10:29 AM PST by FourtySeven
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To: helmsman
The right to life movement is all about "intolerance" and a majority component in the movement is "Christian Morality". Christians should not tolerate Murder or Homosexuality. It’s bad enough that we have to live in a secular society. Being forced to deny our beliefs by presenting ourselves as Inclusive for the sake of diversity should also not be tolerated.
33 posted on 01/23/2002 7:12:07 AM PST by Khepera
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To: Fee
That's an interesting point, one I hadn't considered. Of course, there will never really be such proof, because such a claim is false, just like the claim that genes determine who becomes a criminal or not. However, from the standpoint of the homosexual, and their belief system reguarding genetics, I can see why they would be interested in the pro-life movement for that very reason. I agree.
34 posted on 01/23/2002 7:13:43 AM PST by FourtySeven
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To: AppyPappy
They couldn't just march for life...again and again, it's all about the "homosexual agenda".
35 posted on 01/23/2002 7:16:57 AM PST by Osinski
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To: helmsman
So now, thanks to Nellie Gray's actions, the March For Life, which is supposed to be about saving babies from abortion, has been turned into a controversy about homosexual pro-lifers and their right to protest alongside others.

Wherein lies the problem. They couldn't simply show up with signs and protest like the others; they had to identify themselves as homosexuals, and grab some of the spotlight.

I'm sure the rest of the protestors didn't identify themselves as "Heterosexuals for Life"; they always have to interject that into everything they do.

Why in this case? Undoubtably more for PR than anything.

36 posted on 01/23/2002 7:17:14 AM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: helmsman
Why would they show up for this?
37 posted on 01/23/2002 7:17:15 AM PST by makingsense
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To: helmsman
Because they're gay? Is that the only reason they are automatically suspect?

YES... You have a problem with that? The sodomite community pushes the homosexual agenda and the Christian Community does not need their input.

38 posted on 01/23/2002 7:17:36 AM PST by Khepera
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To: helmsman
"Nellie Gray, in a meeting a few years ago, stated PLAGAL may participate in the March for Life so long as we do not identify ourselves as lesbians and gays," stated Moses Remedios, VP for Media Relations. "That's as offensive as telling an African American, 'you can ride on the bus, but just sit in the back.'"

Everything is always about them. I'm sure the pro-life cause was a secondary consideration, if one at all.

39 posted on 01/23/2002 7:18:54 AM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: Khepera
The right to life movement is all about "intolerance" and a majority component in the movement is "Christian Morality".

Yes, but many of us have come to our pro-life convictions based not on religious teaching, but on rational examination. Nobody is suggesting that Nellie Gray should have adopted the beliefs or lifestyle of the members of PLAGAL, only that she should have allowed them to protest alongside other pro-lifers in unity.

40 posted on 01/23/2002 7:19:08 AM PST by helmsman
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To: helmsman
Let's not wax philosophical over this. What a transparent ruse! Homosexuals don't reproduce, so why should they be concerned about unborn babies not their own? The homosexual lobby is always the first to say that one sin is no greater than another. Homosexuality is sinful and so is murder. What's the difference? The homosexuals' participation in this march was likely uninvited and deliberately provocative. This was little more than an effort at self-promotion. And, it's ever so cliche to associate the homosexual agenda with black peoples' struggle for the exercise of their God-given rights in this Country!
41 posted on 01/23/2002 7:20:42 AM PST by old school
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To: Khepera
""Being forced to deny our beliefs by presenting ourselves as Inclusive for the sake of diversity should also not be tolerated.""

EXCELLENT STATEMENT! Diversity never cured disease, it INCREASES it.
Diversity always increases the crime rate!
Diversity floods our hospitals, wrecks our schools
No politician will touch the subject either.
42 posted on 01/23/2002 7:21:02 AM PST by 1 FELLOW FREEPER
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To: helmsman
All those wishing to express their disgust with the March for Life for this malicious and divisive act of exclusion are encouraged to contact the March for Life at info@marchforlife.org. For pictures and the latest information on this developing story please visit our website at http://www.plagal.org.

Right. Now the March for Life becomes a debate about homosexuals. They destroy everything they touch.

43 posted on 01/23/2002 7:21:14 AM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: helmsman
The Christian community may consider secular society neutral on some levels but they find the homosexual portion of that society to be intolerable and an affront to their core values. They’re many in the secular community that may be rejected as well if they identified themselves. Its just that Christians find non-believers more tolerable than they do perverts.
44 posted on 01/23/2002 7:24:42 AM PST by Khepera
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To: Khepera
YES... You have a problem with that? The sodomite community pushes the homosexual agenda and the Christian Community does not need their input.

I respect your opinion, but that's not a strategy for victory. What you're saying is that only people who live strictly by Christian teaching are allowed into the pro-life movement. By that standard, if it were applied with no bias, the pro-life movement would have zero members, since everyone falls short of the Christian standard in some way. The cause is important enough, I think, to accept help where it's offered, even if those helping are living in ways that are disagreeable to those who form the majority of the movement.

45 posted on 01/23/2002 7:28:40 AM PST by helmsman
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To: Khepera
Arresting homosexuals is good for society and the nation.

First arrest the fundies. They're even more annoying.
46 posted on 01/23/2002 7:31:18 AM PST by Belial
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: helmsman
You may have a point about your objection of 'not reproducing' being equated with death. in that realm, I would revise my choice of words to say "not pro-life" when it comes to the 'lifestyle'.

Nevertheless, having said that, in other aspects of the 'lifestyle', I would say a certain culture of death exists in that individuals make conscious decisions to engage in free will acts that promote the spread of a disease that is deadly and has no known cure. surely, this part of homosexual culture could be termed 'pro death'.

At the end of the day, I do not see anything particularly pro-life about the homosexual agenda. it neither promotes the procreation of natural life, and many of its adherents also engage in acts which flirt with death. Something is not right here.

48 posted on 01/23/2002 7:32:35 AM PST by AmericanInTokyo
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To: ArGee
the idea that human beings can establish their own moral order based on their own understanding of how things work

This idea is the only thing that distinguishes humans from lower beasts.

49 posted on 01/23/2002 7:33:59 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Khepera
Its just that Christians find non-believers more tolerable than they do perverts.

But they shouldn't. According to Christian scripture, a perverted believer will see Heaven, while a morally upright non-believer will bathe in the fires of Hell. So is it really so important, then, that those who would like to help protect the unborn are morally pure?

50 posted on 01/23/2002 7:34:17 AM PST by helmsman
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