Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Bush Breaks First Campaign Pledge By Renewing Call For Illegal Alien Amnesty
FAIR ^ | November 10, 2004 | Dan Stein

Posted on 11/10/2004 12:51:19 PM PST by VU4G10

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 641-660661-680681-700701-702 next last
To: Poohbah
Perhaps you should have a working knowledge of the law before pontificating on it. If the prosecutor has a good faith belief that the charges are merited, it's not prosecutorial misconduct. We are not talking about randomly picking people to prosecute here but those who the government reasonably believes are hiring illegals.

And if you think that multiple charges against a defendant equals a harassment suit, there would never be trials of organized crime figures as they have been known to beat the charges,. Yet they don;t go running around filing what you claim would be lucrative lawsuits. I wonder why that is?

And finally, this is all assuming that you're right that juries were just rarin to nullify on illegal immigration cases. You rely first on supposed twenty year old cases that you cannot cite. Now, you point to polls that have not been taken.
681 posted on 11/11/2004 8:43:49 AM PST by radicalamericannationalist (The Senate is our new goal: 60 in '06.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 676 | View Replies]

To: mudblood

So if there were a population that was specifically non-religious, loved the welfare state, and loved to lay around, eat bon bons and watch tv, you would not want them here? If the answer is yes, you are admitting that you are not allowing the illegals to stay here because of principle, but because of politics. How then do you oppose the Socialists among us promoting the immigration of the bon bon eaters? Either we have a set of laws that mean what they say, or we don't. Build a fence, dismantle the system that provides for the illegals and their children, then get back to me about immigration policy. Unless the flow is stopped, and the social costs are minimized, immigration reform is just a phantom policy.


682 posted on 11/11/2004 8:45:01 AM PST by jeremiah (Sunshine scares all of them, for they ashll are cockaroaches)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 640 | View Replies]

To: curiosity
how working poor immigrants are a net drain

I think it is a completely different subject. One is the problem of illegal immigrants be they lettuce pickers or Richard Branson. The other is the problem of the working poor legal or illegal. You solve the two independently. For even if you cut back on government benefits to the working poor to encourage greater self-reliance, you would still have a large number of illegals crossing the border to get jobs here that they can't get in Chiapas. A $6.00 an hour job in San Diego is better than eating prickly pear pads in Tapachula.

683 posted on 11/11/2004 8:48:57 AM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 680 | View Replies]

To: curiosity
Oh yes, and they'll just meekly go home when they can't legally stay anymore.

"Required to return to their home" implies some form of enforcement. For instance, you are "required" to pay your federal income tax and if you don't you can be prosecuted for failing to do so. I assume that requiring them to return home if they are no longer employed (for they will be tracked via the guest worker visa) means that armed LEOs will hustle them along if they don't.

I could be wrong. We'll have to wait and see. Right now, the situation is that nobody cares whether they are working or not and nobody is forcing them home. The status quo can't stand. If the President's plan doesn't work we can always go to Plan B. Anything is better than no plan (what we have right now).

684 posted on 11/11/2004 8:56:44 AM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 679 | View Replies]

To: citizen

In the long run, Bush would go down in History for IMPORTING MASS DEMOCRATIC VOTING BLOC.

Dems and far left would hide behind social programs for the poor.


685 posted on 11/11/2004 8:57:15 AM PST by Recall
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 651 | View Replies]

To: radicalamericannationalist
If the prosecutor has a good faith belief that the charges are merited, it's not prosecutorial misconduct.

Failure to convict the same person several times in a row on essentially the same charges is considered prima facie evidence of government misconduct, especially when the charges must be brought about by undercover sting operations.

We are not talking about randomly picking people to prosecute here but those who the government reasonably believes are hiring illegals.

The only way they're going to find a significant number--i.e., enough to deter others--is to engage in undercover stings. And at that point, you have the government soliciting criminal activity. That's what Reno's effort--the one you wish to duplicate--did.

And if you think that multiple charges against a defendant equals a harassment suit, there would never be trials of organized crime figures as they have been known to beat the charges.

Key difference: the government did not actively solicit the targets of these investigations to commit crimes. To generate criminal charges against enough employers to act as an effective deterrent, you're going to have to manufacture the cases in the same fashion that many drug cases are manufactured today.

The intersection of failed prosecutions and said prosecutions being based on undercover sting operations is very much frowned upon by the judiciary.

And finally, this is all assuming that you're right that juries were just rarin to nullify on illegal immigration cases. You rely first on supposed twenty year old cases that you cannot cite. Now, you point to polls that have not been taken.

Not every opinion poll is publicized for your edification, sir. Indeed, most are not disseminated to the public.

686 posted on 11/11/2004 8:57:58 AM PST by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 681 | View Replies]

To: FreedomCalls
The issues are joined. The working are a net drain. Immigration increases the number of working poor. Therefore immigration exacerbates social problems associated with working poor. Logic 101.

They're not going to cross the border for a $6 job in San Diego if you crack down on employers so none will offer an illegal a job.

How do you do that? Simple. Set up an instantcheck system for legal employment status verification at the DHS. Any employer who fails to utilize the system and hires an illegal gets severly penalized: $100,000 fine plus jail time. Possible seizure of assets under RICO if it's not a first offense.

687 posted on 11/11/2004 9:01:11 AM PST by curiosity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 683 | View Replies]

To: FreedomCalls
"Required to return to their home" implies some form of enforcement.

What planet are you living on? THEY'RE REQUIRED TO RETURN HOME UNDER EXISTING LAW, yet they're not doing it. What makes you think they'd return home under this new law?

688 posted on 11/11/2004 9:02:51 AM PST by curiosity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 684 | View Replies]

To: curiosity
What planet are you living on? THEY'RE REQUIRED TO RETURN HOME UNDER EXISTING LAW, yet they're not doing it. What makes you think they'd return home under this new law?

There will be two key differences:

1. The guest worker will have been registered and fingerprinted before entering the country, and will have a record of his whereabouts.

In case it escaped your notice, we don't have that with the current situation. It will make it much easier to catch those who are breaking the law.

2. The employer will notify the government when the worker is no longer in his employ.

Again, we don't have that with the current situation.

The illegal alien problem was a hell of a lot more manageable before 1965. Returning to the pre-1965 standard would be the best solution, IMNHO.

689 posted on 11/11/2004 9:08:49 AM PST by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 688 | View Replies]

To: Dante3
He sure has no compassion for this country, only for criminals who pose a danger to this country.

Yeah, I wonder if most voters voted for that last week?

690 posted on 11/11/2004 11:30:53 AM PST by StoneColdGOP (She calls me *Mini-Merc*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 511 | View Replies]

To: Poohbah; curiosity

Please remember we have amnest right now. Any illegal who can hide and stay out of violent felony trouble for ten years CAN and DO obtain amnesty.

We have amnesty now.

Any "guest worker" program should and must include provisions that the "guest" status is not convertable to permanent or citizenship status.

In adddition some change should be so that offspring of "guest" workers do not automatically become citizens nor should they become a drain on social services. (aka our tax dollars)


691 posted on 11/11/2004 11:38:22 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 689 | View Replies]

To: longtermmemmory
Any "guest worker" program should and must include provisions that the "guest" status is not convertable to permanent or citizenship status.

Agreed.

In adddition some change should be so that offspring of "guest" workers do not automatically become citizens nor should they become a drain on social services. (aka our tax dollars)

Again, completely concur.

692 posted on 11/11/2004 11:40:23 AM PST by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 691 | View Replies]

To: StoneColdGOP

This was a response to comment about "compasionate conservative." Kerry would've been far worse. Many people don't vote on the bases of "one issue" but take into consideration the entire "package."


693 posted on 11/11/2004 11:49:23 AM PST by Dante3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 690 | View Replies]

To: JohnnyZ
Basically these people are Zero Population Growth leftists. There's a reason Linda Chavez and other responsible conservatives have cut all ties to these guys.

You mean the Linda Chavez who was busted for employing illegals to clean her mansion?

694 posted on 11/11/2004 12:05:15 PM PST by Penner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Poohbah
1. The guest worker will have been registered and fingerprinted before entering the country, and will have a record of his whereabouts.

It's a big country. It's very easy to get lost in it. If you think the government is going to keep track of every guest worker, and will no exactly where they are when they lose their jobs, you're living in a dream world.

In case it escaped your notice, we don't have that with the current situation. It will make it much easier to catch those who are breaking the law.

2. The employer will notify the government when the worker is no longer in his employ.

So you've got their fingerprints. Big deal. As soon as they lose or quit their job, they move. Then try finding them.

Again, we don't have that with the current situation.

The illegal alien problem was a hell of a lot more manageable before 1965. Returning to the pre-1965 standard would be the best solution, IMNHO.

I'd be very happy to return to the pre-1965 regime. Legal immigration was strictly limited to under 200,000 per year. The government was not afraid to launch massive deportation sweeps like operation wetback (that deported over 2 million people). Children of illegals were not granted automatic citizenship. And finally, but most importantly, guest workers had to apply before they arrived. If they were here illegally at any point, they were subject to deportation.

So yeah, let's return back to the pre-1965 regime. I'm all for it. This proposal, however, doesn't even come close to doing that.

695 posted on 11/11/2004 12:05:37 PM PST by curiosity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 689 | View Replies]

To: longtermmemmory
Any "guest worker" program should and must include provisions that the "guest" status is not convertable to permanent or citizenship status.

In previous proposals of the prez, it was. He hasn't specified whether that's the case in the current proposal. We'll see. I doubt it very much, though.

It actually doesn't matter, though. So long as we automatically make the children of guest workers to become citizens, that gives them a sure road to citizenship.

696 posted on 11/11/2004 12:10:36 PM PST by curiosity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 691 | View Replies]

To: expatpat
Once again: IT IS NOT AMNESTY. They will receive temporary guest=worker status, no citizenship, and no voting rights and a path to citizenship.
697 posted on 11/11/2004 12:14:06 PM PST by Penner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: curiosity
It's a big country. It's very easy to get lost in it. If you think the government is going to keep track of every guest worker, and will no exactly where they are when they lose their jobs, you're living in a dream world.

You don't need perfection. If you ARE demanding perfection, then you're the one living in a dream world.

Big deal. As soon as they lose or quit their job, they move. Then try finding them.

They'd have to abandon things such as their cars.

And they'd have to have a perfect police record. ANY arrest would equal deportation.

And in the situation where it's relatively easy to hire a legal worker compared to now, fewer businessmen will take the chance of doing so. This will make finding the ones that do much easier, as their anomalous behavior will stand out against the background.

698 posted on 11/11/2004 12:24:15 PM PST by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 695 | View Replies]

To: Poohbah
They'd have to abandon things such as their cars.

Illegals drive around without liscenses or insurance right now. What makes you think ti will be any different?

And they'd have to have a perfect police record. ANY arrest would equal deportation.

We don't deport the illegals we arrest right now. What makes you think that's going to change?

And in the situation where it's relatively easy to hire a legal worker compared to now,

It's not hard to hire legal workers now. You just have to pay them more than illegals. Plus if you pay them in cash, like a good chunk of illegals get paid, you don't have to pay unemployment insurance or FICA. You can even pay them below minimum wage. The same will be true after the amnesty is passed, and unscrupulous employers willing to save a buck by hiring an illegal today will be just as willing later.

The only provision that's going to ever work in keeping out illegals, whether or not you pass an amnesty, is mandatory employer verification of legal status and strict enforcement of that provision. But if you pass such a law, you don't need to give any amnesties or deportations. Without jobs, they'll leave. Problem solved.

699 posted on 11/11/2004 12:37:43 PM PST by curiosity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 698 | View Replies]

To: sarcasm

Los Angeles has the same problem for a very long time. Property taxes, and special bond measures taken to provide bigger, and newer schools for people who really shouldn't be here in the first place.


700 posted on 11/11/2004 4:13:21 PM PST by television is just wrong (Our sympathies are misguided with illegal aliens.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 432 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 641-660661-680681-700701-702 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson