For those of you leaving, staying, watching the show.

FR | 4-1-05 | Bob J

[Bob J]

For those of you who don’t know, Jim and the mods treat old timers a little different than newbies. They get a little more slack, a few more mulligans than those who signed up in last four years or so.

I always wondered if that was a good policy. After all, why should the crusty buggers be treated any differently than someone who signed up last week? Are they more intelligent, are their arguments more cohesive…persuasive? Do they have any more or less to contribute to this community we call the Free Republic? Not necessarily.

But they do have one thing new participants don’t and that is perspective. In a way us curmudgeons can help provide a sense of continuity and historical perspective to events that newcomers cannot. Sometimes, we are the glue the bridges Free Republic from one crisis to the next. I believe the recent Sciavo issue is one of those times so I am going to ante again and prove to Jim that his investment is worthy of it’s returns. I ask other old timers to chime in and pull their weight as well.

The Forum has a history of going through upheavels in terms of political philosophy and/or cultural standards, this is not unusual for a community such as outs. The first thing we need to understand is that the conservative movement is made up of many individuals with different motivations. For example, some are economic minded, some are culturally based, some are second amendment supporters and others view their vision on religious principles. Sometimes these differences can cause us to reevaluate our alliances. But that would be a mistake. The left is counting on us tearing ourselves apart from within for that is the very philosophy upon which their strategy is based…foment division and hatred then attack at the breach. It has worked well for them in the past and they count on it working again for them now and in the future.

My humble opinion and suggestion to all is in these times of contention and confusion, that we remind ourselves who the real enemy is and where the battles ought to be fought. On more than one occasion I have had firefights on FR with individuals who later I found myself sitting next to in a foxhole when we were fighting the real enemy…the militant left. I berated myself for some of the things I had posted and wished I could take them back. For here was my true brother or sister, sitting in the foxhole with me, taking hits with me, helping to lead the bravest charge at our direst moment. How could I have been so thoughtless in my moment of indulgence?

We may divided, on occasion, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that we are all brothers and sisters fighting the good fight against those who would enslave us and our children into bondage for generations. Argue the good argument, stand on principle, but let’s not forget we are all ultimately on the same team. The man or woman you trash today might be the brave soul who saves your behind tomorrow.

Let’s keep out eye on the ball.

[cyncooper]

This was before my time on FR, why did the division occur on FR during the Elian Gonzales case?

Some thought parental rights trumped political issues of returning the boy to a communist state.

The arguments were fierce and mean but not devoid of logic or rational thought (at least not completely).

[altura]

Another "oldie" agrees with you.

However, you may have noticed that not 6 posts went by without someone feeling compelled to start the recent argument all over again.

I don't think it's hopeless, but right now, I'm inclined to stick to a few friendly threads.

This, too, will probably pass.

I know this is a free forum, but we could have used a benevolent dictator in the past few weeks.

But then, I guess it wouldn't be FREE republic.

[Types_with_Fist]

I don't see how anyone could be a conservative and not value life. To me that is part of the definition of a conservative.

Amen! Just... absolutely... Amen!

[teenyelliott]

I got info in the mail today. It appears that Ollie is taking donations to try and counter the damage that the mainstream media is doing to our military and our overseas efforts. There is a lot of information on his site.

Freedom Alliance

Also, tonk, do you have any VA budget numbers handy? I am interested in picking a fight with our powers that be over how little we do for our troops. I know the funding is abysmal. I just want proof before I go on a rampage.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"Truly I believe the support is there and has always been there but people are generally shy about discussing such things because (a) they hold the military in too high an esteem to say any more than yeah for all of them, (b) the acronymns, mneumonics and jargon is difficult to understand, and (c) there's no opposing view to contend with. Let an anti-military troll wander in here though and there would be fireworks.
Just my two cents..."

You bring up valid points my MENTOR!

I don't even know all the terams, jargon etc.

But on the anti-military trolls I'll say this.

How many times is the National Guard, made fun of,
right here on FR?

There are some FReepers on threads quick to "ask"
that if an military airplane crashes
"Was it a female pilot"

I gues what I'm saying
is that I wish the military would
get more support on FR.

While stopping the negative posts on FR about the military.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"Also, tonk, do you have any VA budget numbers handy?"

No, sorry I don't.

[Lady Jag]

[brazzaville]

Good morning.

I think the Terri threads, the border threads, and the WOT threads have combined to stoke the fire of dissension.

These topics, along with the life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness threads have sort of cross pollinated to form a perfect storm of passion.

I also think the statist enemy became aware of how dangerous FR is during the run up to the election and began to attempt to destroy it from within.

Storms abate and false Freepers fall away when exposed to sunlight. My impression is that JimRob and the Mods are hip to that. I hope they are hip to that.

Michael Frazier

[satchmodog9]

I agree about the shades of gray. I am not a big believer in the nuance thing but, sometimes a situation rises where there are extenuating circumstances. I think most times the gray option is an excuse for people not having the courage to do the right thing and sometimes it is legitimate. I was torn on the whole Shiavo case and I refused to voice an opinion or even a question because the speech police were roaming all of the threads. I could see the legitimate arguments on both sides. The problem with that case is there was a lot of false or manipulated information out there created by both sides to stir emotions. It was hard to know what was true towards the end. I take everything I come across as a learning experience. I hope the rest of the nation learned from this and gets their affairs in order asap. We have ours done and my parents and sister had theirs done years ago.

[sharktrager]

One of my favorite arguments was one last year where a FReeper from the class of 2001 disagreed with a newer poster and told me that his opinion was, in fact, more valid simply because he had been here longer.

So I just pointed out my sign-up date, called him a Noob, told him he was wrong and that by his own logic he had to admit as much.

At least it ended the flame war.

In honesty, I think the disruptors have succeeded very well in spreading dissent and distrust, and many a potential new FReeper has been scared or run off by those who assume their "seniority" makes their opinion the only valid one.

[Mjaye]

FR has been threatened with "destruction" more times than the Earth has with global warming propaganda, and it's still here.<<<<<<<<<<

AMEN! When Drudge pulled the link, some thought the sky was falling, and Trixie and Batjack are good examples.

These events only serve to shake, stir and redistribute the mix, and despite the allegations that we will end up a homogenized mass of sheep, we begin dividing and shuffling within immediately as new issues arise, and it's mostly from healthy disagreement.

When it becomes personal and nasty, folks get offended, and should not be discouraged from seeking greener pastures. A few trips to other places usually puts FR into perspective, and who would want to hang out with people who felt exactly as they do in all respects?

That's the beauty of FR, we may share some extremely strong beliefs, but we can also be sliced open to the core at times over important issues. Most don't cut and run, we move on to the next subject with either beliefs that have been tested and found to be strong, or doubts that encourage further investigation, a win-win situation for both the individual and FR.

[Raycpa]

I too have seen many groups leave in mass. There are two observations I would like to make. The first catergory of folks that leave in mass seem to be those who believe they are leading some sort of FR movement to the promised land. They have a vision for FR and believe they are leading us all. They form alliances with others, create massive ping lists, tune their arguments and hit threads with a common theme. They begin to believe they are changing minds when in fact they are polarizing posistions. When reality hits that they are not leading FR, any more than a cat hurder can lead cats, they create a big disappointment for themselves. This disappointment leads to disillusionment and to departure.

The second category is those who have a short term agenda which is often financed by outside interests. Yes, folks some people get paid to post. When the contract or time runs out they leave. Others that don't get paid have mostly single issues they are concerned with and when that issue is done they leave. Yes, they may participate in other discussions but they mainly have one reason for being.

[Dog Gone]

I wish I could think of something outrageous to say so that the moderators would cut me some slack as an old-timer. ;-)

I do hate seeing folks who have been assets to this forum for many years leaving. I hope they are simply fed up with the tone here in recent weeks and will return once FR becomes what it once was.

I'm not happy with it and it must change. I've not cancelled my monthly donation and I will do what I can to help restore civility. We all have different levels of patience and tolerance and very few of us have it in unlimited amounts.

I hope we can all work together to lower the temperature so that this forum is one that attracts people, not one which people feel compelled to abandon.

[sauropod]

"Longevity-laden lips sink rebuttals from newbie "team players."

As they should.

[LowOiL]

Jim has stated "facts" don't matter. That has thrown many for a loop and does not auger well for FR being a force to be respected.

Why paraphrase such a short quote from JimRob? Use his complete quote Sir...

The word "Other" was in his quote. Remember... Jim put his emphasis on life, nothing more, nothing less.

[sauropod]

Leave the start-up date popup. It helps put things in perspective.

[satchmodog9]

I have even had some of these morons target me in other threads. It is the same three people each time. It all stemmed from a time where some of them misread a statement I made and they hammered me for hours. I tried to explain to them that they were in error because they did not read my post thoroughly. I made myself clear and they claimed I did not and blamed me for their poor behavior.

[cyncooper]

Why do you call me "Sir"?

LOL

And the quote is what it is. Facts ALWAYS matter.

[sauropod]

Here's hoping you do what you espouse.

[sauropod]

The Bible does trump the Constitution. It's a higher law.