Skip to comments.Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism (Pope Bound for Hell).
Posted on 04/14/2005 12:00:51 PM PDT by Dean Baker
Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, firstname.lastname@example.org April 13, 2005
NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.
"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."
The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."
The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.
"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."
It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.
"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.
He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."
Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."
Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.
"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.
James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.
"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."
Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.
"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.
Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "
He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.
Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.
Allah is originally a moon god.
To be blunt, Mohammed pulled his whole religion out of his rear end . . .grafting together Arab pagan moon practices with most of the old and new testament.
It's fundamentally inconsistent and theologically unsound.
I don't know.
Doesn't make a difference. There was still no "New Testament" to be preached from, and it would be preposterous to assume that everything they preached - every miracle recounted - every parable told - ended up in the canon.
Everything IN the canon is truth, but the story of salvation continues to unfold, otherwise, how could anyone even begin to defend Luther, who used no Scriptural citation in his infamous "95 Theses" - based on his interpretation of tradition and with no support from Scripture.
I've been rolling this around for several weeks:
It seems to me that, at the Last Day, everyone will finally see the Truth. We will know things are true that we only thought were true, and we will know things are false that we thought were false. We will be shocked to learn that some things we thought false are actually true, and probably equally shocked to learn that some things we thought true are patently false. Once that process has happened, we will all find ourselves sharing one common position on every subject, and it won't be my position or your position or the Pope's position -- it will be God's position. I don't have much insight into the exact process, whether it would be instant or prolonged, but I'm comfortable with the idea that we'll all get the "Final Judgment Day revelation of the Big Picture of Truth" or, as some may choose to put it, "The Ultimate Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything."
It seems to me that some constructive things come out of this line of thinking:
One is that, since we're all going to at last agree with God's view of things anyway, we'd be wise to get a head start. The key, here, is that I cease pursuing truth for truth's sake, or for the sake of my pride in being right, or far any other reason aside from pursuing truth for the sake of being in agreement with God; knowing His mind on the issue. You or I could be wrong; He is never wrong.
Another is that, although we may disagree in the present, with this future reality in mind, we are now forced to do so with an entirely different attitude; one of humility and willingness to be wrong -- even if we're really, REALLY sure that we're right. Regardless of WHAT we disagree about we know we'll be in agreement at some future point, so the present-day reality is that HOW we disagree becomes an equally important concern. The attitude and demeanor of our disagreement must be transformed from adversarial to collaborative; from one of division to one of unity. We must recognize that one (or perhaps both) of us will be changing our minds one day, and that it won't be MY doing or YOUR doing -- I won't "win" the debate and neither will you -- it will be HIS doing. He, The LORD of Hosts will win the debate. We are thus liberated from the need to be in a specific camp -- "I follow Paul. I follow Apollos." -- and free to persevere with one another; to dispassionately and objectively, with love and humility, pick through the finest elements of any debate seeking, not personal vindication but, the very heart and mind of God.
All who are in Christ Jesus sit, together, at a single table over 2000 years long with Our Lord at the Head. And shall we now dignify His Holy sacrifice for us by taking up the Bread and Wine and having a food fight? What an appalling notion! Yet, I submit to my brethren, this is precisely what has been done. We stand with crumbs in our hair, wine on our clothes, arms waving, bickering back and forth at each other and, all the while, Jesus reclines calmly at the head of the table with this quizzical half-smile on his face thinking, "Boy they're really going to feel foolish when The Father brings it all down to a close and they finally see the real Truth." And we WILL. Every last single one of us will.
So, how ought we then live?
Just something I've been thinking about & thought I'd share
When I was in Catholic grade school we had what was called Bible history. It was the Bible made accessable to young children. In High School we studied the actual Bible. But the Catholic Church does not encourage people to interpret the Bible own their own. That is why there are 3 scripture readings during the Mass that are usually interpreted during the Homily.
Well, all I know is that I am still praying, and the candy bar hasn't shown up yet. I think the Shinto Priest might win...because Shinto is such a cool word and it's fun to say.
There is but one who will decide who enters and who is cast out... It is not for us to say.
It seems to me that any man who assumes the ability to make that determination, minister or not, does so at great peril of angering a vengeful God.
Yes, if dunking is defaming, then Christ should have punched John the Baptist in the kisser.
Plus the whole Holy Spirit coming down as a dove and God, Himself, saying "This is my Son, with whom I am pleased." (paraphrase).
LOL. Dunk, dribble, whatever.
As long as it is in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit.
In fact, the most touching Baptism I ever saw involved a soldier, 4 other soldier praying, and a flight mechanic from Louisiana with a dirty canteen.
I know that many pagan rituals have been "Christianized" by the Church in the past, which was actually a good idea, took something bad and used it to remind of of Christ(e.g. Christmas Trees). But honestly the "Roman Bablylonian Brotherhood" theory reeks of conspiracy theory stuff. I wouldn't call it simple history at all.
The Catholic population in the South has exploded in growth over the last 15 years, mostly due to Yankees (midwest, northeast, all types) and partly due to Hispanic immigration.
#41 was well said.
Pope John Paul II was a decent, godly man. Even I, a doubting Protestant who almost never goes to church, could see that. It's possible to disagree with parts of the RC theology without concluding that fine man, who did more to advance the teachings of Christianity than any other one man in the twentieth century, without smearing him and saying he's bound for Hell.
Excuse Me? Carson-Newman is my Alma Mater and first off it's not a Baptist school, it's a Liberal Arts college affiliated with the Tennessee baptist Convention. And second, Carson-Newman is very much a conservative school in it's teachings of Christ and religion. I'm not sure what you mean by ....someone who is an inclusivist or worse...All I can say is You judge that which you do not know.
Is this why they call their fathers "Daddy" even as grown men?
In ancient Hebrew, "Allahom" means "The curse", or "Allah" means "curse". If Israel turned it's back on God, they would suffer "Allahom." (That one is in the Tora)
Having attended literally thousands of Catholic Masses, I have never heard a priest make a similar claim.
This clown just sounds like a jerk no matter what your faith is.
And LOT lived in Sodom, too!
HE lost everything he had, and got his daughters pregnant as well!
Now that's just creepy. Thanks, I stand corrected.
No. They believe they simply sleep. I saw it on the History Channel.
They don't believe in the resurrection, nor Christ.
I didn't stick with it longer because...
1) In Nowhere, Indiana, where I grew up, there is only a grade school Catholic school.
2) I would have probably been booted. I didn't like it. All my friends went elsewhere.
3) My "Family" did not practice. My dad was Catholic but didn't practive anymore and mom wasn't Catholic (I'm pretty sure I went to the Catholic school to make grandmaw happy). I went to church every Sunday, alone, for 6 years. And only because the school said I had too.
Anyway...Now that I think back. I just find it odd that we didn't really "Study" the bible. It seems, now, that the school was more interested in teaching Catholic Doctrin. I guess??
But won't your car last longer, and stay cleaner, if it's garage-kept?
Not to take one side or the other, but I've never seen or heard of a Catholic saying such things. I have heard it the other way though.
But then again, Catholocism is only 1 against about a bazillion types of other "Christian" religions? So...It's not really a fair comparison.
If "most people" are too ignorant to educate themselves on the Catholic faith, then I suppose they can think whatever they like.
The Nicene Creed is recited at every RC Mass, it is the old, from the Council of Constantinople in 381 A.D and summarizes the Catholic Faith (FYI for all non RCs on this Board):
We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."
And no, we don't worship our Blessed Mother. God Bless You.
No. It's fact. Like I said, it happened back during the Inquisition. Rome needed the Church to fight. The rituals bled over into Catholicism. That's why they're not found in the Bible.
Today, there's still a Babylonian Brotherhood, but I have no idea what they're up to now.
I couldn't have said it better!!
And that coming not from a doubting Protistant, but a doubting Catholic. (Good way to phrase it).
again, source please?
Paul did not contradict the Lord, whose words are always helpful. An older, more accurate English translation reveals the true meaning of 1 Cor 5:12-13. And I would not "condemn" a Pastor despite his error. Because how is that any different from someone condemning the Pope?
I bet you stayed at a Hoiliday Inn once too.
You either heard wrong, didn't understand, or were misinformed.
Thanks for the insight. Well said!!
The Inquisition had zero to do with the "Romanization" of the Church. The Seat of Peter - the Bishop of Rome - was considered the naval of the faith long before the Inquisition, which was launched to counter the Catharists who insisted that Jesus did not have a Divine nature and that heaven and hell existed side-by-side (equal in power)
To properly study the Bible you need to have something in which to contextualize it, such as the Catechism. You need to be able to see how one Gospel truth squares with all the others, or it would be very easy to get the wrong idea from a passage out of context, and then you'd be very confused, and that doesn't help. Lacking context and tradition you get the millions of different personal interpretations known as Protestantism.
Studying the Bible is a good thing, and highly recommended -- but you also have to be aware that "the Devil can quote Scripture for his purpose" and lead you astray.
whenever any two are together IN HIS NAME, . . .
It is odd considering the Catholic Church teaches and has always taught that Sacred Scripture is the inerrant word of God and the catechism specifically references and quotes Sacred Scripture.
At best I would suggest you require more study before you can speak intelligiently about the Catholic faith versus just speaking about your unique experience.
Very good (the blog, too)!!!
I agree. It serves no purpose. I am not one of these religion-bashers, but this is precisely the kind of thing that makes me laugh at the supposed "superiority" of "believers" who claim to be so much better than everyone else. There is a particularly ugly streak among religious folks who claim the authority to decide who's going to hell and who isn't.
Well then, pastor, I guess your services aren't required.
If "most people" are too ignorant to educate themselves on the Catholic faith, then I suppose they can think whatever they like.
Well, that's what they think. They see statues and prayers to Mary. What else would they think?
People who aren't Catholic find no need to understand. Why would they? They're not Catholic! They could care less about Mary. She was born into sin like everyone else. The Bible says very little about her after Christs arrival.
OK, since you wouldn't give me a source on the "Babylonian Brotherhood" I looked it up myself on the internet. The very questionable "sources" I found seem to describe a secret race of men/extraterestrials who interbred with reptiles sometime after the great flood and who now have a secret organization controlling the world.
I'm moving on now.
ROFL........ good luck
That's because those people are too ignorant and lazy to find out about others' beliefs. They are arrogantly blissful in their ignorance.