Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 3

Some case info to go along with this map...
(as far as I know this is all correct)

B-1 = California Lighthouse - where the boys claim they took her first after leaving the Bar.

D-3 = #4 is the location of the 2 Marriott Hotels - where the 2 brothers (and now Joran) claim they dropped Joran and Natalee off after leaving the lighthouse - the 2 brothers claim they went home to Hooiberg after that.

D-3 = #19 is the location of the Holiday Inn where Natalee was staying.

G-5 = Where the red #2 marker is pointing to is the area that the Carlos & Charlie Bar is located

D-4 = Township of Montana is where Joran lives

F-7/8 = Hooiberg (Haystack Mountain) - The 2 Kalpoe brothers live in this area at the foot of the Haystack Mountian.

C-9 = By the Natural Bridge on the map is the location where the sharks hang out as they are fed at this location. This is the Shark Infested Feeding Area.

E-3 = Wetland in the Bird Sanctuary is the location where they found the Condoms/Condom Wrappers - Duct Tape (looked like black electrical tape to me) - Female Flowered Panties - and a String or Strap from a Bikini or Halter Top.

I am asking that everyone either post just a link to the pictures they wish to share or reduce the size of the picture when you use the img src tag.

This will help greatly for us who are on Dial-up.

Examples

Just a link to a picture like this...(this is the simplest method)
http://www.arubavacationhouse.com/images/arubamap.gif

or reduce this image size like this (you need to know HTML to do it this way)

Just a reminder that...
THIS IS A NO LARGE
PICTURE POSTING THREAD
(please do not post large pictures on the thread - small pictures are fine as well a links to the pictures)

This is a discussion thread about the daily occurrences in the Natalee Holloway Case.
It is located in "Chat" on Free Republic
It is not a thread for bashing Natalee - Natalee's Family or Natalee's Friends.
It also is not an ongoing discussion thread for any other cases.

Texas group arrives to search for missing teen in Aruba

6/24/2005, 8:28 p.m. CT

By PETER PRENGAMAN The Associated Press

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Volunteer rescue group members from Texas arrived Friday to start a new search for a missing Alabama teenager in Aruba, a day after police arrested the father of a young Dutch teen already in custody.

Both father and son are considered suspects in the nearly 4-week-old disappearance of honors student Natalee Holloway, of Mountain Brook.

Joe Huston, a diver with Dickenson-based Texas EquuSearch, said the group would start work Saturday with three search dogs and sonar equipment.

Huston said three members had arrived Thursday to meet with authorities and FBI officials on the Dutch Caribbean island where Holloway, 18, was last seen in the early hours of May 30.

"We are coordinating with them to figure out areas that have not been searched," said Huston. "That's mostly inland areas and the coastlines."

Meanwhile, Paul van der Sloot, 52, a judge in training, spent his first night in jail after being arrested Thursday. Van der Sloot became the fifth person detained, joining son Joran van der Sloot, 17, and three other young men. No one has been charged. Under Dutch law, within 48 hours van der Sloot must go before a judge, who will decide whether prosecutors can hold him for an additional eight days.

The elder van der Sloot "is a suspect in the disappearance" of Holloway, said Mariaine Croes, spokeswoman for the Attorney General's office on the Caribbean island.

Joran van der Sloot's mother, meanwhile, told The Associated Press her son had changed his story, admitting to her that he was alone with Holloway on a beach the night the Alabama teen vanished — and did not drop her off at her hotel as he had told police. But the boy insisted that he did not hurt her, the mother said.

Anita van der Sloot also insisted her husband had done nothing wrong. "This is not about Natalee anymore. It's about enormous pressure from the (United) States and the media," she said.

"My husband is a man of integrity who has been working in the justice system 15 years and was taken without evidence," she said, also describing him as "the most honest, beautiful man."

Prosecutors have described all five men currently in custody as "suspects." But it was not clear if each was considered a suspect in the woman's disappearance or if some were suspected of a lesser crime, such as withholding evidence.

Croes told NBC television Thursday that the elder van der Sloot's testimony to police in seven hours of questioning over the weekend had not coincided with other reports and facts of the investigation. "That's when, instead of a witness, he became a suspect," she said.

Searches by Aruban police, Dutch Marines and volunteer islanders and tourists have yielded no trace of Holloway, who went missing on the last day of a five-day high school graduation trip with 124 other students. Her passport and packed suitcase were found in her hotel room.

Joran van der Sloot has been in custody since June 9, along with two Surinamese brothers, Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Satish Kalpoe, 18. Authorities also have arrested a 26-year-old party boat disc jockey, Steve Gregory Croes.

Police say Joran van der Sloot met Holloway at a casino two days before her disappearance. The three young men told authorities that they took her from a popular restaurant to a beach, where Joran and Holloway were kissing in the back of the car, then dropped the teenager at the Holiday Inn about 2 a.m.

But Anita van der Sloot said her son told her he was alone with the teenager on a beach.

"He says, 'Mom, I dropped the girl at the beach. I walked with her. I left her there because she wanted to stay there. I left and I don't know what happened,'" she related, without specifying which beach.

Asked if her son had changed his initial story, she replied, "Joran changed his story only one time. I think he was scared because he sneaked out of the house that evening. I think he was scared and wanted to cover other people, too."

She didn't say who he might want to cover for.

Anita van der Sloot insisted her son was innocent and that he was going through "mental torture" in jail.

She said he often was interrogated for more than 10 hours a day, and that authorities turned the air conditioning up high to increase the pressure.

Attorney General Caren Jannsen told the AP that allegations of mistreatment were "not true."

"Everything is played by the rules. We interrogate people in only the ways that the law allows," she said.

Jannsen said the law didn't permit the interrogation techniques Anita van der Sloot claims were being used.

Interview with a close friend of Joran van der Sloot (Friday):

Hasibokos.com received a transcript of an interview with a friend of Joran van der Sloot conducted by a local radio station in Aruba. The interview was conducted in Papiamentu, but just as we have been doing so far, we translated this into English. The friend of Joran wanted to remain anonymous so to make things easier we'll call her (yes it’s a girl) F (riend) in the following translation.

Introduction:

F. has known Joran almost 7 years now. When she was asked about her reaction on the arrest of Joran, she said that she was shocked when she heard about his arrest. According to F., Joran is very bright, good scholar, popular, good athlete and has a great personality. F. said that Joran practices soccer and tennis and was very good at those sports and had already been accepted by 7 colleges in the United States. F. told the reporter that she also knew the mother of Joran, Anita van der Sloot, because she was tutored by her at school. According to F. Paul van der Sloot was rarely at home as he was working a lot.

Jorans behavior:

F. was asked about Jorans behavior on court and she stated that she never saw Joran loose his composure on the tennis court. She was also asked about Jorans reaction when he would loose tennis matches, and she said that Joran would be very disappointed as anyone would be, but he would never burst out and start screaming or show violent behavior. According to F. at those times Joran would just pull himself back a spend time by himself and reflect.

Previous relationships:

F. was asked about Jorans preview relationships and she said that a few years ago Joran had a steady girlfriend but after a while she broke it off (allegedly because she fell in love with another guy). Joran was devastated at the time and just as he would do after disappointments on the tennis court, he would spend time alone and distance himself from everyone and reflect.

While partying:

With regard to Jorans demeanor during parties, F. explained that even though Joran was only 17, he went out and partied and consume some alcohol as most 17-year-olds do. But she added that she never saw him drunk or waisted. According to F., Joran would never use drugs and she never saw him even smoke cigarette.

And closing....

F. was asked at the end of the interview what her thoughts were about the developments in this case. F, stated that the only thing Joran might have done wrong was to change his story a few times and not tell the truth from the start, but she stated that the it’s likely that a 17-year-old would not know exactly how to act in certain situations.. F. believes that even if something bad did happened to Natalee, Joran had no direct contribution in that. Hasibokos.com !

No one has anything to say about what was said on Greta's show tonight?

Ok brigette: Many of us on FR have not cared for Greta before. The criticisms were very numerous. However, I believe she is doing a very fine job, and I think most agree on this point. And, I have observed that when she is interviewing and just talking she looses that high-pitched whine that she usually had on her regular show that so many found annoying.

Also, I like the fact that she is not accepting any theory and just going gung hoe down one road because it is the "popular" conception. She even mentioned tonight that she does not understand why the police are just focusing on JvdS. I found that very objective and it let me know she is suspicious of everything/everyone, and not just accepting of the most current possibility.

She also said that the police told her that PVDS was taken in because of something said during the interviews she had with him. However she admitted that she listened very carefully, and has even reviewed those videos and cannot for the life of her figure out what he might have said. Well, remember...he got a phone call. Maybe it was something that was said on the phone to him, or that he said back to the person who called. I believe we heard that their the phone was tapped. I wonder if it still is? So, Greta might not have heard a telling comment, but maybe the police did, and it did happen during the interview, just not at the table with Greta. Now, just who knew about the interview, and how long Greta would be there, and when to call or why is the question.

I still have a feeling that this family is being targeted in some manner that is not quite on-target. Maybe some criminals are using Joran's association/meeting and last time with Natalee to put Paulus in a "between the rock and hard place" position - between what they would do to him and his family, and the law and being incriminated as it is not playing out. Maybe someone else took Natalee and Paulus was forced to give them money (The money he drew out in the middle of the night from the ATM machine) or they would kill Natalee and make Joran take the fall? Maybe they have a score to settle with Paulus for something in the past? Sure he was wringing his hands, sweating (well even Greta said it was very hot, and he was under a lot of stress), but consider he might be worried because of some worse threats made to him if he slipped up or told about some blackmail scheme or something. Possible, perhaps?

Greta also said that everyone she spoke to had very good things to say about the family and Paulus. And the things about Joran, when you think of it fairly, he is like most teen boys and not all that horrible. The drinking - well, look at college kids, drunk a lot and underage, it is epidemic on campus. And, consider...the lifestyle of teens there and in Europe is pretty different. In England the teens, even at age 15, are in the pubs all the time. Often drinking, even though legally they should not. My friend's daughter was there for a year and in the pubs all the time when they lived in England. As to being in the casinos, that is not unusual in these islands either. We just don't have the same standards here, but there it is not considered horrible or that it makes him a terrible boy. The teens go to the casinos there like our kids hang out in the malls. Not always gambling constantly, but hanging out. Anyway, much of the really horrible things about Joran that were said, I believe were debunked on many other sites, and reports on the news. He might not be a perfect angel, but I don't get the feeling he is a criminal type or nearly as bad as some teens running our streets and reaking havoc on the public.

I think Greta feels there is truly something darker, deeper to this story. Other commentators are also questioning the same thing lately.

I guess it is my mother's heart that does not want any possibly innocent teen to be incriminated or wrongly accused of this horrible situation. And I ache just the same as everyone for Natalee and her mother, and all the mothers in this. My own son was shot in the head and almost died, and the perps have never been brought to justice. My son is blind now, so I know the agony of Beth as close as I can having experienced my own worry for my son. I also know that the earliest suspect in the shooting of my son was wrongly fingered and the agony his family suffered. I am trying to leave that lesson guide my feelings and not rush to judgement on what seems to be obvious. I think Greta is doing the same.

I know many do not agree, and I do not mean to say any others are wrong. Nor do I want to argue. I just have grown to have a different perspective, and I might surely be totally wrong. My heart hopes, however, that if there is a big, bad criminal/s lurking out there, allowing others to take this fall, that the person/s is found. If it is the VDS father and son, then justice should be served for them also, of course. I just, at this point, cannot accept what is on the surface after my own experience with my son and an innocent boy who at first was wrongly accused of shooting him, and whose life would have been ruined forever simply because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I keep watching, and evaluating everything very carefully. I keep weighing all that is being said about Joran and the other boys against the actions of teens that I know. I truly do not see really bad behavior, at least a shocking record of it. If Joran is responsible, I would not be shocked, but would be surprised. It just does not seem so black and white to me.

Sorry that I am in the minority, but this is MHO and I find no fault with others' feelings. (And no, I did not think Michael Jackson was innocent or OJ...so I am not a bleeding heart!) I hope my comments are taken in the perspective I offer them, and not as a challenge. I pray ever so much, and so hard for all the families and children in this horrible situation.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.