- Yeah, who cares about 'constitutional limits', anyways? That damn piece of paper just gets in the way of fightin' terror!
Interesting, isn't it? Clinton had Lewinsky; Bush has the "conservatives." Is there nothing they won't say or do for this man?
Posted on 12/15/2005 5:27:25 PM PST by West Coast Conservative
Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials.
Under a presidential order signed in 2002, the intelligence agency has monitored the international telephone calls and international e-mail messages of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States without warrants over the past three years in an effort to track possible "dirty numbers" linked to Al Qaeda, the officials said. The agency, they said, still seeks warrants to monitor entirely domestic communications.
The previously undisclosed decision to permit some eavesdropping inside the country without court approval represents a major shift in American intelligence-gathering practices, particularly for the National Security Agency, whose mission is to spy on communications abroad. As a result, some officials familiar with the continuing operation have questioned whether the surveillance has stretched, if not crossed, constitutional limits on legal searches.
"This is really a sea change," said a former senior official who specializes in national security law. "It's almost a mainstay of this country that the N.S.A. only does foreign searches."
Nearly a dozen current and former officials, who were granted anonymity because of the classified nature of the program, discussed it with reporters for The New York Times because of their concerns about the operation's legality and oversight.
According to those officials and others, reservations about aspects of the program have also been expressed by Senator John D. Rockefeller IV, the West Virginia Democrat who is the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and a judge presiding over a secret court that oversees intelligence matters.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
It is perfectly legal to monitor a phone call (or email) of person in America if it is being made to a suspect overseas whose email or phone is being monitored. That is what the above quote from the NY times article indicates is being talked about. The construction of this as "eavesdrop(ing) on Americans" is a blatant lie.
What is the NSA supposed to do when monitoring the Al Qaeda suspects phone and email outside the US, which is legal, when a call or email comes in from the US? plug their ears or cover their eyes?
This is 100% BS, manufactured by the friends of Joe Wilson and George Soros (and Al Qaeda).
'Our joint sarcasm aside (although I wouldn't be surprised if some here really don't care about the Constitution), people would be freaking out if this was happening under Clinton's term."
Indeed. If this happened under Clinton, NOONE would be questioning the source.
Security for Freedom is a trade PT Barnum would be impressed with.
Interesting, isn't it? Clinton had Lewinsky; Bush has the "conservatives." Is there nothing they won't say or do for this man?
Look under his desk and ask one.
Gee...has the NYT discovered that Bill Clinton used both the Justice Dept. and the IRS to punish his political enemies? At least President Bush was fighting our nation's enemies after 9/11. I'm sure the Old Gray Ho' will be publishing full details leaked from the Barrett Report on Clinton's criminal activities any day now, since they are so keen on the public's right to know.
Maybe it's time to monitor all citizens communications. Who ever said you have a right to privacy on the phone and why should you. Don't want to miss any would be terrorist out there.
Besides if your not braking the law why fear someone listening.
(@^)
So you don't mind at all hearing that Able Danger was tracking Atta before 9/11?
All that connect the dots mantra that went on and on and on was just an exercise in futility.
Either you are a NYer or you live on the other side of the country on the other coast.
Wow. Did he really do that? I remember reading the obituary of a 20-something-yr-old Navy diver who had been involved in the TWA 800 recovery. He just happened to be from the town where we were living at the time. And I just happened to read the obits that very day. (I don't often read them.)
The C.I.A. seized the terrorists' computers, cellphones and personal phone directories, said the officials familiar with the program. The N.S.A. surveillance was intended to exploit those numbers and addresses as quickly as possible, the officials said. In addition to eavesdropping on those numbers and reading e-mail messages to and from the Qaeda figures, the N.S.A. began monitoring others linked to them, creating an expanding chain. While most of the numbers and addresses were overseas, hundreds were in the United States, the officials said.
They were tracking numbers that were tied to confirmed terrorists and according to reports, stopped 3 terrorist attacks within the US. If you think we don't have terrorists within the US, think again. The 9/11 attacks were coordinated in this manner, by terrorists within the US contacting terrorists outside the US via phone and e-mail. The article also states that they did use subpoenas for domestic taps related to those numbers, which would have been conversations between terrorist within the US. Your paranoia that they are going to tap numbers on the average American citizen calling Grandma for Christmas is unfounded. Jack booted thugs...what a joke.
"Interesting, isn't it? Clinton had Lewinsky; Bush has the "conservatives." Is there nothing they won't say or do for this man? "
Yep. I'm just glad there are still a few of us left who care about America and its historical ideology, rather than putting the importance of party first.
The proof of that is that the story was embargoed for a year and brought out just in time for the Iraqi elections. I'd bet the farm that the "former officials" are associated with the VIPS group (Ray McGovern, Larry Johnson, Vincent Cannistraro, et al)that are Wilson's staunchest defenders.
Ben Franklin and James Madison foresaw this sort of nonsense two-hundred years of ago, they knew it was bad then and it's still bad now.
Two quotes, from brilliant men, that the people applauding this sort of thing should think about:
"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
-- James Madison
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"
-- Ben Franklin
"A quick review of the Patriot Act wouldn't hurt you, if you need evidence of the deterioration of liberties in the US."
A "quick review" would be more of a review than it got when it was first passed!
Amazing how Congress was able to write and pass a 1500+ page document into law in less than a month after 9-11. Surely it wasn't pre-written and just waiting for a 9-11-style event to occur?
Kind of hard to have an evil conspiracy when both the Democrats and the Republicans are in on it. They're going to have a hard time blaming Bush for this, if he let all the key players in Washington in on the secret.
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