Posted on 05/17/2006 7:47:58 AM PDT by Pukin Dog
Edited on 05/17/2006 8:30:59 AM PDT by Lead Moderator. [history]
"Wrong, and you want to know why? Because the President has already set the national agenda on border and immigration reform and all it takes is a quick scan through the numerous immigration threads on FR at this very instance and you will see it's not enough for this core of single issue voters."
The President has set his policies.
And those policies are the ANTITHESIS of everything the BorderBots have been saying they want for months and months.
So, what has happened is that the President has set an unnacceptable agenda to these people, and to the Republican House of Representatives, and he is going to be blocked in implementing that.
Now, as with Miers, he can either back down and retool and offer something acceptable, or he can be stubborn, put the plane into a jam dive, and we all crash and burn in November.
I don't want to crash and burn, but the President's immigration agenda cannot stand. It is too offensive to Border Conservatives. They aren't going to back it. And without them, there is no Republican majority.
That is why you need security in depth. A wall alone will not work. Remote sensing alone will not work. 100,000 boots alone will not work.
And even if you couple all three together, it still will not work UNLESS THERE IS A TRUE DESIRE IN THE GOVERNMENT TO SEE IT DOES WORK.
And IMO, that is the key ingredient that is missing here.
"And what happens, after that fence is built and the tunneling becomes more rampant?"
What happens?
Some illegals get through.
There will be border patrols, and aerial patrols.
Tunnelling across a triple fence line is not easy, and once you open a tunnel and people start to move, it doesn't stay open very long.
Sure, some people will always get through. But not 2 million a year.
Thank you. That is exactly what those of us being flamed and silenced by the Build-the-Wall crowd keep trying to say.
"2) Goofy-man entering as a 3rd party candidate on his personal vendetta against the Bushs."
"Goofy-man" got almost a fifth of the vote.
His biggest issues were trade, and Mexico.
Immigration and the Mexican problem was an issue even way back then. Now it's an issue that can't be kicked down the road anymore.
If we do not wish to repeat the result of 1992, we need to behave differently than we did then. Specifically, the leaders need to give the key elements of the base what they want and bring the party united into the election.
They show no inclination to do so.
Like 1993 and the Contract, they WILL after they have lost Congress in 2006. I'd prefer not to have to go through a loss in order to get to the same place that we ought to be getting to right now while we still have Congress.
Much of the time these publications are wrong. they never retract, or even correct their stuff, so it is really just opinion.
WND started out pretty good, but has since deteriorated as a good newsworthy organization, IMO.
"Many of them have been here for years pretending to be libertarians, reformers and pukananites and now see their opportunity. Do not automatically assume an old Freeper is a Conservative, especially if he uses insulting names for the President of the United States."
When I have reached my limit with these lying spinning leftwing electronic brownshirt trolling moles, I will often challenge them to show me a single reply or post where they have complimented our president or said something positive about him. Most of them can't. They have a electronic trail of years posting vile hatred of GW, his Father, his wife, his cabinet members, his Mother and of course those of us who really voted for him in 2000 and 2004.
Pukin Dog's thread has brought many of these trolls out. It reminds me of when our warriors were first in Baghdad and fighting the Islamofascists. Our psych ops warriors had our loud speakers on our tanks and Humvees, saying things in Arabic which drove the Islamo lunatics into suicide attacks against our warriors. Pukin Dog thread has done the same and brought many FR's Electronic Left Wing Trolling Moles out into the open.
When an old "Walk on the Water Conservative Freeper, trashes our President worse than a short lived DUer before its zotting, they are not conservative nor Republican. They are CINO/RINOS playing a deadly game with us. They proudly enabled the the Clintons to have 8 years to rape and pillage our country. We will not allow that to happen again.
"I do not appreciate those that chose to gamble with the future of this country over an issue."
I don't either, which is why the President and certain Republicans in the Senate, notably McCain, should knock off this crap and say that we're building a sea-to-sea barrier fence before we start discussing guest worker or amnesty.
Instead, they're chosing to gamble with the future of this country over an issue.
They need to stop it.
What I see as missing, is the understanding that there is a slew of other possible routes of entry and they will simply shift to those.
Trucks, air, sea........and the big one...."Overstayed visa's".
Then what do you do. Build ten thousand Coast Guard patrol boats? Cancel all foreign Visa's? Close, and or physically and tediously inspect every single vehicle entering through the gateways.....Close the airspace?
Hell, they could traverse the Gulf and enter as far away as Florida!(and probably are now)
The answer is a comprehensive one, and I can sure see it. Why is it that so many refuse to even look?
Amen George W.
Try explaining that to these knuckleheads on this forum
"Nope, hang the man for managing to get ANY further on a fence"
His was a policy speech, not a budget request.
What he needed to say was a sea-to-sea fence, not a partial fence and not a "virtual" fence, and he needed not to say "guest worker" until the border is secure.
He knew this too.
But he chose, instead, to not give the Border Conservatives what they say they want.
He chose to try and split the baby, which looks like rope-a-dope.
It didn't work, and it's not going to work.
He's not going to get credit for asking for something that the target audience says it doesn't want, while refusing to give them what they said they wanted.
The President is not a stupid man, and he is well advised. His speech was calculated to SOUND LIKE he was giving people what they wanted, without, however, moving off his original position.
The BorderBots were not duped, and they are angrier than they were before that the President tried to dupe them.
What needs to happen now, to save the GOP's bacon, is that the Congressional reconciliation committee needs to ignore the President and agree in principle to a border to border fence, without amnesty now. They can offer to discuss it down the pike.
That will keep the BorderBots voting GOP this November.
If they get status quo, or guest worker, or no sea-to-sea fence, enough will stay home that we lose.
Why are we doing this?
Why don't we just cave and give this key element of the base what THEY say they want?
What is the PRINCIPLE that we are standing on here to leave the borders open?
Do we just have a political death wish?
Sorry, but when President Bush is counting on nearly complete Dem support to get his guest worker program through the Senate and the House, and his guest worker proposal is causing a huge rift to form in the GOP that could well jeopardize GOP control of the House in the upcoming elections, he is deserving of just about all the criticism I have seen thrown at him over this issue. For all your talk of your opponents on this issue being closet Dems, OUR GUYS are not forming alliances with the Dems to get our agenda through. BUSH IS.
Good post. Give the approach to immigration laws since the early 90s, it's not encouraging is it?
Exactly, v13. I consider myself a Bushbot, but firmly beleive we need to build that damn wall/seal the border before we do another thing.
Bush the Elder did the same with his tax hikes. But the GOP losses in 1992 were not his fault, no. It was all the fault of the Perot voters.
Likewise, Bush's defenders on this issue simply cannot bring themselves to realize that Bush is willing to ally with liberal Dems and risk losing GOP control of the House to get his way - rather than take the PRUDENT step of holding off on a guest worker program for now. It is political brinksmanship of the worst kind - and it apparently runs in the family.
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Perhaps we should observe a moment of silence. Or not.
It is a shame that he went out that way, though.
They can disagree till the cows come home. This is not subjective. The fact is that the President always, or almost always, ends his speeches with "May God continue to bless America."
Now, to try to make something out of the word "continue" is to grasp for straws.
It's not. And quite frankly, Bush has given good reason to question his sincerity about sealing the border - with Exhibit A being his signing a bill for 10,000 more BP agents, but proposing funding for only a few hundred. That alone shows he will not back up initial commitments made. And trust on this issue will only return with concrete action - not by working with Dems to circumvent GOP conservatives in both houses.
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