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David Irving: Jews should ask themselves why they are hated
Haaretz ^ | December 23, 2006 | Amiram Barkat

Posted on 12/23/2006 1:58:30 PM PST by West Coast Conservative

Holocaust denier David Irving on Friday said Jews should ask themselves why they have been hated throughout history.

"They [Jews] should ask themselves the question, 'Why have they been so hated for 3000 years that there has been pogrom after pogrom in country after country?', said Irving, speaking at a press conference he convened in England on Friday, a day after he was released from an Austrian prison.

Irving, who was sentenced to three years in prison for denying the Holocaust, was released last week after his appeal was granted.

Asked if he sees himself as anti-Semitic, Irving said, "No, I like to think I am not."

But immediately following his answer, Irving expressed his support for Mel Gibson's comments that "The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world."

Irving also took pride in the success of his books and claimed that he the fortune he made from sales of his biography on World War II German General Erwin Rommel enabled him to walk into a car showroom with a paper bag stuffed with cash to buy a "Nigger brown Rolls-Royce."

Irving's comments aroused great anger within Britain's Jewish community.

Lord Janner, president of the Holocaust Educational Trust, said Irving's release was "unwarranted" and that Irving's "latest comments were totally to be expected and should be totally ignored."

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Israel
KEYWORDS: antijew; antisemitism; davidirving; hatespeech; holocaust; irving; nazi; racist; stuckonstupid
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To: West Coast Conservative
Jews should ask themselves why they have been hated throughout history

That would seem a cogent question. I don't know if Jews need be the only one to offer an answer but it does beg an answer.

I know I have found it curious enough to wonder why.
Why did Portugal and Spain turn the Jews out?
Why did England drive out the Jews in 1290?
Why did France push away the Jews in 1306 and again in 1394?
Why did Belgium exile the Jews in 1370 and Czechoslovakia exiles them in 1380?
Why did Holland drive out the Jews in 1444?
Why did Italy turn the Jews out in 1540?
Why did Germany push the Jews out in 1551?
Why did Russia exile the Jews in 1510?

If cogent answers are not forth coming perhaps at least opinions can be shared and discussed. There had to be a reason. We could even discussion why no answers are offered.

Discovering the reason does not mean you have to adopt the reason. It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. – Aristotle

151 posted on 12/23/2006 5:37:27 PM PST by MosesKnows
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To: AmishDude


Even when I am paying attention to it (which is all the time) I still manage to mess it up. You're right it's a little "c" in the creed. I manage to screw up "church" and "Church" too.

Per the "united", the Holy Father's title is "The Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church". I'm guessing that'll raise a few hairs, too.

152 posted on 12/23/2006 5:38:04 PM PST by incredulous joe ("My career was sputtering until I did a 360 and got headed in the right direction." — Tracy McGrady)
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To: West Coast Conservative

David Irving is intellectually incapable of accepting the Truth, which is:

The Jews are God's chosen people, they are His Nation, and like it or not, Jesus Christ IS a Jew, the KING of the Jews, in addition to King of kings and Lord of lords, and when He returns to establish His Kingdom on this Earth, He will rule from Jerusalem, and there won't be any protests, objections or even a raised eyebrow from ANYone, because His Will shall be done.

And if that isn't enough for David Irving and the rest of the world's Jew-haters and Christ-haters, "every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is LORD!"

I can hardly wait to watch all those Muslims comply.

153 posted on 12/23/2006 5:38:09 PM PST by mkjessup (The Shah doesn't look so bad now, eh? But nooo, Jimmah said the Ayatollah was a 'godly' man.)
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To: West Coast Conservative
"They [Jews] should ask themselves the question, 'Why have they been so hated for 3000 years . . . "

But I thought the Jews just popped out of nowhere two thousand years ago, and those other people you read about in the "old testament" were actually aryan chr*stian Israelites, the ancestors of today's anti-Semites? [/sarcasm]

But something tells me Irving (mach shemo!) is more of an atheist skull-measurer than Klucker.

154 posted on 12/23/2006 5:38:57 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . velo' `amad 'ish 'itto behitvadda` Yosef 'el-'echayv.)
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To: RobbyS

It would seem strange though that a territory as small as Judea, which is not super-fertile to boot (though moreso than some of the surround region) would have such a large popultion.

155 posted on 12/23/2006 5:40:54 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( For the Republic.)
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To: Torie

"That give me a bit of a start. "

I'm think ing St. Thomas More probably pulled a quarter turn in the grave, as well.

156 posted on 12/23/2006 5:41:25 PM PST by incredulous joe (“Disguise our bondage as we will, 'Tis woman, woman, rules us still” -- St. Thomas More)
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To: Torie

“Lawyers-a profession it is to disguise matters.” -- St. Thomas More

157 posted on 12/23/2006 5:43:54 PM PST by incredulous joe (“Disguise our bondage as we will, 'Tis woman, woman, rules us still” -- St. Thomas More)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
So, that is how European oriented racists explain the Old Testament......

It seemed contradictory that they would consider themselves Christian and yet consider ethnic Jews subhuman.

158 posted on 12/23/2006 5:44:19 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( For the Republic.)
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To: incredulous joe

Well lawyers wrote in law French in Britain until the 18th century. Thus nobody knew what they were doing, and they fashioned the common law right under the noses of parliament, usurping some of its power. By the time parliament figured it out, it was too late. And there you have it.

159 posted on 12/23/2006 5:47:31 PM PST by Torie
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To: Torie

If the fashionable pumps fit... :D

160 posted on 12/23/2006 5:50:01 PM PST by AmishDude (It doesn't matter whom you vote for. It matters who takes office.)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

The Jewish population was not limited to "Palestine." The Disapora extended to most of the known world. Jews are known to have been in China, and India as well as Ethioipia. My quess is that neighbors were drawn to the Jewish faith. Christian missionaries seems to have followed Jewish routes. So "Jews" were also persons of other races, plus they had fellow-travelers who patronized the Jews but stopped short of actual membership. (Easier for women than men to get in, of course).

161 posted on 12/23/2006 5:50:16 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHI)
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To: secretagent
Freedom of speech means the right to say things others find objectionable. Shooting an A-hole just makes him a martyr, and sets a bad precedent.

Nazis and Commies and Islamofascists do that.

So do most Western democracies, at least to a far greater extent than the US. Don't get me wrong; I'm a big fan of the US approach, and I'm as close to absolutist on the 1st Amendment as I am on anything. And I agree that attempting to shut down speech just drives it underground, and the more effective strategy is to drag it into the open and counter it.

But America isn't the world; even in free, pluralistic democracies, most people in the world have more faith in government than Americans do. We're fronteir folk. The foundation of our national philosophy came from folks who crossed the ocean at great risk with no guarantees, just to be left the hell alone.

Even Canadians, who are as culturally similar to Americans as anyone elese on Earth, have far more tolerance for restrictions than we do. On the spectrum between freedom and order, there's a pretty broad range that can still be considered free and democratic, and Americans are pretty much outliers at the freedom end of the line.

The facts that most Western (and Westerm-influenced, like Japan, S. Korea and Turkey) democracies accept more restrictions on speech and also tolerate higher taxes in exchange for a more comprehensive welfare state are not coincidental. They're both symptoms of the same underlying cause, that most folks trust their governments more than we do and trust individual initiative and corporate power less.

It's easy to defend the American version of things philosophically, and there are plenty of people who can do it better than I. It's also pretty easy to point at America's unprecedented material prosperity and military power as a sign of its pragmatic value. But the fact that like-minded societies differ from ours by degrees doesn't make them antithetical.

Irving set out to make himself a martyr. He made it his mission to test the law, and he lost. He wanted to be Europe's version of Larry Flynt, to stretch the envelope, but the difference is he chose the wrong cause and the wrong venue.

162 posted on 12/23/2006 5:53:38 PM PST by ReignOfError
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. or WOT [War on Terror]


David Irving has more important things to worry about than Jews.

163 posted on 12/23/2006 5:56:13 PM PST by SJackson (had to move the national debate from whether to stay the course to how do we start down the path out)
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To: West Coast Conservative
I had to look up pogrom. I never heard of that word before.

After 911 this mentally challenged young woman I know was very upset with the moos. She kept very seriously asking people, "Why do they hate us?" She just demanded an answer but I don't think she was ever satisfied.
164 posted on 12/23/2006 5:56:53 PM PST by A knight without armor
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To: Torie

Hmmm, this scenario sounds familiar.

By the way, how many pages are there in the EU's Constitution?

165 posted on 12/23/2006 5:58:56 PM PST by incredulous joe (“Whosoever loveth me loveth my hound.” -- St. Thomas More)
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To: Yaelle
"Jews are chosen to keep G-d's commandments. Not just the Big Ten but all 613 commandments given in the Torah. We were chosen because we said at Mt. Sinai "We will do and we will listen." (Or something like that; sorry, I am no Bible scholar) We agreed to follow G-d first and then to hear what the rules would be. We are supposed to be a light unto the G-dless nations. This does not include Christians who are also following the same, One and Only Creator. We are not chosen because we are in any way better, only that we agreed to take on the yoke of serving G-d. This is how I understand it and how I raise my Jewish sons."

I am no longer an idolator by associating a man with G-d or otherwise. You are a light to us all, and I will continue to respect you as our teacher.
166 posted on 12/23/2006 5:59:19 PM PST by familyop
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To: incredulous joe
167 posted on 12/23/2006 6:01:51 PM PST by Torie
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
If you study tribal names, or what people call themselves, they translate to the following:
The People
The Real People
The Chosen People

This is memorably captured in "Little Big Man," one of my favorite movies, where the tribe calls itself simply "the human beings."

And their names for the next tribe over usually go back to "the other people," or "the evil people," or "those cannibals over the hill."

One of the enduring controversies in American anthropology is what to call the pre-Columbian cliff-dwellers in the Four Corners region, whom Westerners have traditionally called the "Anasazi." Anasazi is a Navajo word that means, more or less, "our ancient enemies." The Hopi, who consider themselves the descendents of ... um, those folks, still bristle at the name.

168 posted on 12/23/2006 6:02:34 PM PST by ReignOfError
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To: Torie
Hey, that's pretty good. I meant for that to be a rhetorical question.
169 posted on 12/23/2006 6:05:13 PM PST by incredulous joe (“I would uphold the law if for no other reason but to protect myself.”-- St. Thomas More)
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To: Polybius
Well, some of them can be pretty obnoxious but I have always attributed that to the fact that they were from New York City.

The only really obnoxious, but very smart, one I ever knew was indeed from New York City. He was a walking talking stereotype. His name was even Stanley, like the doorman in Crocidile Dundee.

Some of the co-crazies of Mr. Irving beat the snot out of him one day, came really close to killing him in fact. He wasn't *that* obnoxious, especially for a PhD physicist. Fortunately his company took good care of him, even flying his mother in to Dallas from New York City.

170 posted on 12/23/2006 6:06:38 PM PST by El Gato
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To: Soothesayer

It wasn't until the mid-to-late 17th Century in most European countries that jews were allowed to own property, serve in the rulers' military, practice the learned professions of law, medicine or clergy and most businessmen tradesmmen engaged in patent discrimination by sub rosa not hiring jews or blantly posting notices that ''Jews need not apply.'' Thus, virtually the only areas of commerce and employment available were banking and becoming one's own small business owner. In those fields most showed such adeptness and acumen that many were able to accumulate significant wealth. Without the ability to reinvest such proceeds in real property and since lending and the collection of interest were without any adverse moral taint, they often became the object of even greater and widespred scorn by the rest of society.

171 posted on 12/23/2006 6:13:00 PM PST by middie
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To: Capt. Tom
Jewish Americans, Jewish Germans,or Jewish anything are perceived to be American Jews and German Jews etc. Not a part of the society but living within it.

Not any of them that I knew. Two were my next door neighbors in Plano Texas for Pete's sake. One was from Memphis or somewhere in Tennessee, the others were from Missouri, she from Kansas City, he from St. Louis. Her parents could, if they were still living (which they might be, but doubtful, they were OLD when they had her), having come through the death camps that Irving says didn't exist. His family, great grandparents I think, came in through the port of Galveston, rather than Ellis Island, around 1900 sometime. She used to like to dress up as a witch, big nose, green face, and all, for Halloween. Can't get much more part of Americana than that. She made a great witch too, having her own long dark hair, and other witch-like features, only the nose and skin color were artificial, scared the pee right out of a few little kids.

They did celebrate Hanneka rather than Christmas, and Passover rather than Easter. They especially liked the Fourth of July. and he is gun owner. My younger daughter and their older one were great friends. They also owned a timber shepherd, who thought she was a cat.

172 posted on 12/23/2006 6:16:45 PM PST by El Gato
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To: Capt. Tom
2. Jews are a successful group within the societies they live in, and this brings jealousy and resentment on them

Not everywhere. Pre 1900, Jews in Poland and Russia were farmers, small shopkeepers and pretty much the lower level of society. Not all of them of course.

OTOH, not a few Jews in Italy, Spain, Turkey, especially Turkey, were the "rich bankers and merchants" of the stereotype.

6. They are big supporters of socialism which tends to turn conservatives against them.

That's a recent thing, late 19th and 20th century mostly. Jews were persecuted and hated long before then.

173 posted on 12/23/2006 6:21:56 PM PST by El Gato
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To: Anti-Bubba182
Whereas most scholars suggest that at most 40-50,000 people died in the firebombing of the city, Irving has suggested that up to a quarter of a million may have died. How did he do this? Well, without any real evidence he took one estimate of 40,000 and argued that the assessor had just dropped a "1" at the beginning in response to Soviet pressure.

Dumbest thing I've heard in many moons, except when reading Supreme Court decisions of late. Why would the Soviets pressure people to underestimate how many Germans the English had killed? If anything they'd want the Brits to look bad. OTOH, maybe they didn't want the Brits to get the credit for killing so many Germans. Germans not being held in high regard at the time.

174 posted on 12/23/2006 6:55:31 PM PST by El Gato
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To: incredulous joe
one Holy Catholic and Apostolic church".

That's part of the Nicene Creed, which Lutherans, and many others, use as well as Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. In that Context "Catholic" means something like "Universal" not necessarily "Roman Catholic".

The version from the Lutheran Service Book (2006) reads:

And I believe in one holy Christian and apostolic Church, I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins, and I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.

There's even a Arabic version of the creed. (Because there are several types of Arab Christians, plus Persian ones)

قانون الايمان با لحقيقة أؤمـن بإله واحد، آب ضابط الكل خـالق السماء والأرض, ما يرى وما لا ي وبرب واحد يسوع المسيح, ابن الله الوحيد, المولود من الآب قـبل كل الدهور, نور من نور, إله حق من إله حق, مولود غـير مخلوق, واحـد مع الآب فى الجوهـر, الذى به كان كل شئ, الذى من أجلنا نحن البشر ومن أجل خلاصنا نزل من السماء, وتجسّد من الروح القـدس ومن مريم العـذراء, وتأنّس, وصُلِب عـنّا عـلى عهد بيلاطس البنطى, وتألّم, وقُـبر, وقام من بين الأموات فى اليوم الثالث كما فى الكتب, وصعد إلى السماوات وجلس عن يمين الآب, وأيضًا يأتى فى مجده ليدين الأحياء والأموات, الذى ليس لملكه إنقضاء, نعم أؤمن بالروح القدس, الرب المحيى, المنبثق من الآب قبل كل الدهور, نسجد له ونمجده مع الآب والابن, الناطق فى الأنبياء, وبكنيسة واحدة, مقدسة, جامعة, رسولية, واعترف بمعمودية واحدة لمغفرة الخطايا وأنتظر قيامة الأموات وحياة الدهر الآتى [edit]

175 posted on 12/23/2006 7:09:12 PM PST by El Gato
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To: Parmy
The other side of the problem is that the Arabs know, biblically, that they are derived from Ishmael, Abraham's illigetmate son that he fathered with his wife's servant girl.

And they've been bastards ever since.

176 posted on 12/23/2006 7:23:17 PM PST by El Gato
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To: El Gato

He was able to sell the Dresden story for years. When he started on the Jews. Everything he ever wrote got a second look.

177 posted on 12/23/2006 7:27:57 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Soothesayer
"The Jews are hated because many of them are generally better than alot of other people. They have comprised most of the greatest beings in the history of the world. Therefore, people are very jealous of them and want to get rid of them. .. Mr. Irving must be very jealous because he knows that he is a hopeless retard. Why must God keep letting these types of people exist? sigh"

LOL!!  ! The asute ponderings of a wise man, indeed.

178 posted on 12/23/2006 7:36:10 PM PST by Salem (FREE REPUBLIC - Fighting to win within the Arena of the War of Ideas! So get in the fight!)
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To: rogue yam
He was arrested in Austria. Denying that the holocaust occurred is a crime in Austria. It needs to be.
179 posted on 12/23/2006 7:37:27 PM PST by JasonC
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To: secretagent
Shooting him makes him a martyr

He's far too stupid to make a good martyr. Send him to Iraq and see how long he keeps his head. The Muzzies aren't above "doing" those that support them, as long as they are Western Infidels.

180 posted on 12/23/2006 7:37:48 PM PST by El Gato
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To: arthurus
Because the Jews are, on the average, probably smarter than most of the rest of us,

Jews aren't naturally more intelligent than anyone else. They just have a culture that values education, learning and scholarship. Not to mention hard work. Sort of like some Asians.

181 posted on 12/23/2006 7:39:56 PM PST by El Gato
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To: cripplecreek
David Irving should ask his parents if he was repeatedly dropped on his head as a child.


I think you've nailed it!

182 posted on 12/23/2006 7:40:51 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: West Coast Conservative; SJackson; yonif; Simcha7; American in Israel; Slings and Arrows; ...
"David Irving: Jews should ask themselves why they are hated"

An answer which any Torah literate Jew would understand as the repurcussions of "the curse" pronounced in Deuteronomy 11 and 30, which they came under, and we know will inevitably be reversed, and already is, in part, in the re-establishment of the Nation of Israel.

It is clear part of this curse is the Jews having to listen to certain "lewd fellows of the baser sort" like David Irving before they to take their place decaying on the ash heap of history with the rest of those who ever hated the Jews.

If you'd like to be on or off this
Christian Supporters of Israel ping list,
please FR mail me ~
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There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had
spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. (Joshua 21:45)

Letter To The President In Support Of Israel ~
'Final Solution,' Phase 2 ~
Warnings ~

"The West has given more significance to the myth of the genocide of the Jews, even more significant than God, religion, and the prophets...."—Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
The Holocaust Chronicle ~

The future of Arab controlled Gaza.

" ... It's time we recognized the nature of the conflict. It's total war and we are all involved. Nobody on our side is exempted because of age, gender, or handicap. The Islamofacists have stolen childhood from the world."—FReeper Retief
"Palestine is the wrong name for their State. It should be called Anarchy."—FReeper sgtbono2002
"Then let's wait and see what the Arabs do after they take Gaza. There's nothing like Arab reality to break up a Jewish fantasy."—FReeper Noachian
A student told his professor he was going to "Palestine" to "fight for freedom, peace and justice,"—Orwellian leftist code words that mean "murder Jews."
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183 posted on 12/23/2006 7:53:51 PM PST by Salem (FREE REPUBLIC - Fighting to win within the Arena of the War of Ideas! So get in the fight!)
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To: Salem

Gee David I got question how come you such ignorant a*** LOL! HMMM answer that question FIRST

What movie studio you founded lately HELLO

184 posted on 12/23/2006 8:05:25 PM PST by SevenofNine ("Step aside Jefe"=Det Lennie Briscoe)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
So, that is how European oriented racists explain the Old Testament......

It seemed contradictory that they would consider themselves Christian and yet consider ethnic Jews subhuman.

Well, that's one way. The concept of "chr*stian identity" has become very popular among various anti-Semites (such as the Klan). They believe the white race is Israel and that J*sus, rather than being the savior of the human race, is the white race's "kinsman redeemer." Of course they can't explain how "the serpent race" (the Jews) are the ones who speak Hebrew and observe the Torah (which the aryan "Israelites" have abandoned) and preserve the original text exactly as it was dictated to Moses. And why don't the "true Israelites" want to live in 'Eretz Yisra'el? There are all sorts of problems. But no, they're the "Israelites" and the Jews are the spawn of Satan (so they claim).

The ironic thing is, this concept of "aryan Israel" has taken hold among national socialists whose ideological forebears wanted nothing to do with Biblical Israel at all. There are even nutjobs who claim that The Emodiment of All Evil, Adolf Hitler (yimach shemo vezikhro!) was (lehavdil `ad 'elef-'alfei-'alafim havdalot!) the prophet Elijah!!! Can you imagine that monster ever identifying with the holy Prophet of Israel?

But not all anti-Semites are religious. There are those (such as Revilo P. Oliver, Sam Francis, Ivor Benson, and that ilk) who are purely scientific racists and who hate the Jews for introducing the "illusion" of morality into a world that should be governed only by the iron laws of nature. And despite their atheism these people actually consider themselves rightwingers and anti-Communists because they see Communism as just another "Jewish" moral system imposed on an impassable and unmoving nature. I won't give any links, but there's a page devoted to the teachings of the late unlamented Dr. Oliver where you can see this bilge spewed.

But you know something? The aryan chr*stian "true Israelites" and the atheist skull-measurers never have the slightest problems with each other. They support each other just like the atheist Darwinists and the new age earth-worshipping and "indigenous" pagans support each other. All the enemies of Israel are friends among themselves. But then, what can you expect from people who worship "nature red in tooth and claw" and who reject morality as Jewish and Communist?

185 posted on 12/23/2006 8:09:48 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . velo' `amad 'ish 'itto behitvadda` Yosef 'el-'echayv.)
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To: Continental Soldier

"Certainly, Jews, more than any other group, have been the target of prejudice and hatred. Why is that? Why should this one group be the subject of so much hostility?"

"they have been entrusted with the very words of God" (Romans 3:2)

It's that simple to me. Through the Jews came Christ, and this brings out what's hidden in every man.

186 posted on 12/23/2006 9:16:29 PM PST by TheeOhioInfidel ("I do not subscribe to using the Koran in any way." - Virgil Goode)
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I would tend to think that there are relatively few here who are literarily familiar enough with David Irving to have read any of the books he has written. He tends to be rather flashy at times and weak in drawing in details to the more established view in how things came about, but Mr Irving's archieval reasearch, not to mention personal interviews, tend to turn up aspects not previously known. You people do know the biggest-badass warship of all time, the 'Bismark,' was scuttled and not sunk, right?? Irving reported this almost 40 years ago now and every so often I read of 'new discoveries' that are old news....

So be it.

Even so, I wonder how Micah 5:2 can be reconciled under Palistian rule, personally speaking, I cannot. As a Christian, believers in Jesus as Christ take precedent as 'God is no respector of persons' "and think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham" (Math 3:9).

187 posted on 12/23/2006 9:16:59 PM PST by PageMarker
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To: secretagent
Understood, but murdering them would only strengthen the enemies of the Jews. It loses the debate by default. It says "I would lose to you in a debate so I must kill you to stop the truth".

I dont agree at all. Torture them, slit their throats, gut them, and hang them upside down on a pole. Let others who would spread hatred of Jews see them and be afraid, as it is so proscribed in Deuteronomy.

188 posted on 12/23/2006 10:03:47 PM PST by montag813
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To: West Coast Conservative

Perhaps it would be wiser for haters to ask themselves why they hate. Asking the victim to ponder the thoughts of a victimizer is a lot like blaming the woman for being raped.

How very Islamic...

189 posted on 12/23/2006 10:24:51 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: rbg81
Muslims call themselves the chosen people, and go around chopping of their neighbors heads.

Perhaps it is because the Jews love God, and the haters of the world hate that too. The "chosen people" part, if you read their texts does not say they are better than others, but that God chose them to tell the world about God.

The answer is simple. The Jews are hated because the world is inherently evil. Anyone that has raised a two year old knows that. The evil must be trained out of them. -grin-
190 posted on 12/23/2006 10:29:49 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: West Coast Conservative

I am a Christian, and we Christians agree and know that the Jews ARE the Chosen People. God said so in the Holy Scriptures. There will be a Remnant of Jews that will come to Christ in the end times. The Jews were the race that God chose to have His Son born into. Hatred of the Jews or antisemitism is a mortal sin and an offense to almighty God. True Christians should love the Jews as brothers and love and support the nation of Israel as well. The Jews have always, until the creation of the nation of Israel, been a hated, oppressed and powerless minority who had to rely on sheer talent, tenaciousness and sheer desperation at times just to survive as a people in whatever host country they've lived in. In Poland and Russia they were hammered relentlessly by laws and edicts prohibiting and banning them from most occupations and their civil rights were violated cruelly in so many ways. For centuries they have been oppressed and denied basic human rights in all the countries they have lived in throughout the diaspora. They are hated for their success and brillance in the face of centuries of oppression. They are hated because the adherance to their religion made them appear very different to the native populaces. Satan has had a field day with antisemitism and the idiots that practise it. The Holocaust was the climax to all of it, and still they survived to found the nation of Israel. This was God spitting in the face of Hitler. No people or race has ever been so relentlessly and cruelly persecuted and oppressed as the Jews. The Holocaust (1933-1945) was, in my opinion, the ultimate nightmare in all of history. Nothing was more horrifying. If you read extensively about the Holocaust, it was almost surrealistic in it's horror and cruelty, but yet the Jews survived it. Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world, was a Jew, and the Jewish people are our long suffering brothers. Damn antisemites and antisemitism.

191 posted on 12/23/2006 10:38:00 PM PST by pallmallman
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To: N. Beaujon
It's illegal to deny the holocaust in former Nazi nations... We ought to have the same laws in place in this country.

You and I disagree completely on this point. The First Amendment exists (and is first) for a reason. I am astounded that a supposedly conservative American would toss aside the genius of our founders and 230 years of American culture and jurisprudence in order to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Please reconsider your position on this point. We do not need the thought police in our country.

192 posted on 12/24/2006 1:24:43 AM PST by rogue yam
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To: JasonC
Denying that the holocaust occurred is a crime in Austria. It needs to be.

Why? Are Austrians less human than Americans? Or do you perhaps think that we need (more) thought crime laws here too? Please elaborate on this point of yours.

193 posted on 12/24/2006 1:27:27 AM PST by rogue yam
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Why are Jews hated? .. another way of asking "What's the cause of anti-Semitism?"

I see all kinds of speculation and theories, but why not consult an irrefutable expert: Dr. Mortimer Ostow who, after a lifetime of research, informs us that negative feelings toward Jews are caused by early childhood troubles in toilet training.
Read more at: Cleveland Jewish
194 posted on 12/24/2006 2:27:56 AM PST by FTCnet
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To: Misterioso

"Take it up with God. I DO believe He coined that phrase...

What language was it coined in?"

According to some of the religious, when G*d spoke to them it, the message was not specifically verbal, rather it came to them as a sense of knowing, not as words in a specific language.

They describe being aware of both the presence of G*d and that which they were being shown, that they might understand.

195 posted on 12/24/2006 3:05:50 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principles, - -)
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To: Stirner

Good thoughts.

196 posted on 12/24/2006 3:08:36 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: umgud

I think Jews are successful because more then any other "group" they stress education. I went to a school theat was about %95 Jewish and man did they work hard at their education. Not much on sports but very hard on their studies. Parents pushed it.

197 posted on 12/24/2006 3:11:05 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: F.J. Mitchell

"Which brings up another question. Why are so many Jews Registered and loyal Democrats, regularly voting for antisemitic, left wing despisers of Jews?"

The short answer is that they confused the Mosaic call for social justice with socialism.

198 posted on 12/24/2006 3:12:35 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon Liberty, it is essential to examine principles, - -)
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To: bkepley

From personal experience it is the Japaneese that are most hatedin the east. Due to their past behaviors.
Currently though the Chineese are getting quite pushy.

199 posted on 12/24/2006 3:13:01 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: ExTexasRedhead

I grew up in North Hollywood Calif. Had next door neighbors named Eisenberg. Both had numbers tattooed and were in concentration camps.
Used to play gin rummy with them and their grandson and talk
No way could I not believe. I saw and read old newspapers they'd saved from before and during and after WWII.
Yes if the U.S. fails to take out Irans nukes the Israel had better get off the pot. I just have no confidence in Olmert the appeaser lawyer.
My point was not to slam Jews, it was to question why they are so hated? They are successful and have taken a terrible piece on earth and made it a garden. They have contributed so muchto society unlike the Arabs and still they are reviled in the mid east and have been for thousands of years. I just don't understand it.
By the way good morning.

200 posted on 12/24/2006 3:22:44 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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