Posted on 06/30/2007 4:02:33 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084
The defeat of the amnesty bill is indeed a great day for America. The noble concept of a "Government by the people, for the people" has worked exactly the way our founding fathers intended. Our public serpents have heard the voice of their constituents and acted according to their wishes by defeating this train wreck of a bill.
In the absence of an actual intellectual argument, proponents of amnesty relied on the lowest common denominator of civil public discourse...when you have no facts to back you up, just call your opponent names like doodyhead, racist, bigot, redneck or nativist.
Apparently the elitist left wingers who were eager for new Democratic voters and the elitist Wall Street Journal right wingers who were frothing at the mouth at the idea of a cheap labor pool were shocked. They were used to having their way while the unwashed masses were busy paying attention to Paris Hilton, American Idol or Anna Nicole Smith.
Americans told them in no uncertain terms: We are not stupid. We are performing our civic duty by paying attention to our government. The message is so simple that even a retard can understand it...PROVE TO US THAT YOU CAN ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAWS BEFORE PASSING NEW LAWS THAT YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY ENFORCE.
They claimed that "we haven't read the bill and don't understand it. There are too many moving parts." No. We've read the bill. They haven't. Sure there were some good parts: ending chain migration, increasing the number of visas available for highly skilled employees.
This is certainly not over.
Speaking strictly for myself, I have nothing personally against people trying to come to America to better their lives. Besides the felony crime of breaking into a sovereign nation illegally, the only other "crime" many of these illegals have committed is mowing our lawn, landscaping our yard and picking our fruit. We don't hate anyone.
My parents were first generation LEGAL immigrants. Many of your parents, grandparents and great grandparents came here for the same reason.
We all understand that. What people like Bob Menendez and Mel Martinez don't understand is that when people came here at the turn of the last century there was no welfare state. Come one, come all. If you fail, don't look to the Gubmint to bail you out and provide social services at the taxpayers expense. We are in a different world.
So I am curious and our elected public serpents who were shocked by the outcry from their constituents are too. President Bush is a "lame duck" supposedly. He certainly won't accomplish any new legislative initiatives. However, he still has the power as President to see to it that existing laws are enforced. That means build the fence that was authorized and funded in October of 2006.
Then come back to us and talk about Comprehensive Immigration Reform. If the border were truly secure, would you be in favor of a similar bill?
Putting them in jail if they’re caught crossing instead of just putting them back would be a discouragement.
I’d be willing to consider it, for anyone who had not been previously deported, or had not committed a violent crime.
And I’d be willing to consider a guest worker program.
But I’d want an end to anchor babies.
And they couldn’t bring their familes over, until they got a real green card.
And I’d object to the DREAM act - at least until my children have at LEAST as good a deal.
But NOT until the border is secure.
Nope. Even if the borders were secure, giving amnesty for crimes only invites more crime. And yes, lets be crystal clear here....illegally crossing the border is against the law. Furthermore, illegals break numerous other laws once here.
Back in 1986, Amnesty only encouraged millions MORE to come here illegally. Amnesty now would have the exact same thing. It’d be ringing the dinner bell, not cutting off the flow.
Great point. Name me one other bill that was backed by the President, the MSM, Big Business lobbies, liberals and special interest groups...and failed?
The people killed it. If this sort of thing happened every day, this country would be even greater than it is.
Blanket amnesty for millions of illegals? No.
Individual pardons for individual people?
Yes....if the standards for granting pardon were high.
For example: 1. Five year residency 2. steady employment 3. sponsorship by a citizen 3. no felonies 4. high moral character - no gang or drug connections 5. etc. etc. etc.
I think (?) I heard once that we already have a system in place whereby an illegal who has lived here 10 years can petition the court for a special hardship exemption. ? ( ? ). I wouldn’t mind relaxing the the requirements a little to allow 5-year residents to make a petition.
But NO “blanket” amnesty for millions!
Would be in favor of open immigration if there were no social welfare state, including public schools and public hospitals. The average illegal Mexican or Central American is no more culturally noxious than the average sh-tkicker, so I could care less about the cultural consequences.
Once the borders are truly secure, I would legalize a bunch of them. How many? I don’t know, but basically I would legalize those who had truly been here a long time, had jobs, etc. Any criminals or bums I’d toss out.
It seems as if things are made difficult only if you follow the legal route. In the June 29th San Antonio newspaper there is an article about two Gulf War veterans who are challenging a law blocking veterans from qualifying for free tuition benefits if they were not U.S. citizens when they joined the military. The benefit waives tuition and fees at Texas public universties for veterans who have used up federal GI Bill benefits but want to further their education. These guys were LEGAL residents when they signed up to serve this country, but since they were not citizens when they signed up to serve, they apparently don’t get all the benefits. Also, they are now CITIZENS. I don’t hear the loudmouth Senators worrying about these guys who have to go out and sue on their own dime. Does anything make sense any more?
Sir, if you are looking for a heated debate on this subject for entertainment, you are barking up the wrong tree. I’m on your side. The “buzzsaw” comment just expressed my amazement that there were this many responses in such a short time.
I’m just a jackass with a modem asking a question. Not a journalist. I should have been a columnist/reporter. That’s where my God given talent is. But the salary was a real nonstarter. I’m a greedy capitalist pig. And damn proud of it.
That is a false premise. It may be what happens, but it is not required by any means. All that is required to make illegal aliens a tiny presence in our midst is to enforce existing law. That means employer sanctions, real big fines and prison. That means roundups. Start at big employers, that would make a big splash. Plus, you can fine the company millions, which would pay for the expense of the operations.
Enforce SS laws and imprison those with false papers, felons. Pass laws that take away automatic birthright citizenship, schooling, free health care except in emergencies, welfare.
Deputize local law enforcement. When they are stopped for a traffic ticket, it will end in deportation.
If they can't drive, and can't have a job, millions will go home. Stragglers will get picked up here and there. When benefits are lost, families will go elsewhere.
It will take leadership to get this done, but not the kind that won the Cold War. That was hard; this is easy. But we are pussies, and may not be up to it.
OK, I’ll accept that. Since you started this mess, however, you should at least answer your own question. I have a feeling you came into it with a particular point of view, and wanted to see what everyone said.
Secure the border, give employers the tools to identify anyone ineligible to work in the country and start deporting criminal invaders as they are identified and caught.
We have every right to control who enters and works in America and they have no right to be here without our explicit permission and knowledge.
We’ve built a great country that allows us to choose our immigrants from the best and brightest in the world. Why should we allow criminals to become a part of us?
Are you aware that Hunter plans to run on building the fence in 2008? What was you first clue that it won't be built right now?
That is a fair request. You're right. I didn't even think of it but I am honored and flattered that anyone actually gives a crap what I think. I'll be happy to tell you:
Q: Would you be in favor of Amnesty if the borders were truly secure?
A: Yes with provisions. 1)Illegal aliens would never, ever be legal US citizens, which means they can't vote 2)End birthright citizenship 3)They would be ineligible for entitlement programs like SS, Medicare, Medicaid, workers comp and unemployment insurance.
Actually, I think this is what the American people do want. They've just been made to feel like they would be bad people if they express their support for deportation. So they keep it to themselves. What we need is an unabashed proponent to explain it, and over time, support will build. Someone like Duncan Hunter. Thompson, I fear, has your mindset, and would give amnesty to the 12 million, because he doesn't imagine deporting them.
Ditto to what you wrote and I’d stick them with some sort of a felony record too...you may become a citizen but you do not have any voting rights.
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