Posted on 08/14/2009 5:28:11 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
Paleontologist Mary Schweitzer’s discoveries of soft blood vessels, proteins, various blood cells, and even DNA inside fossilized dinosaur bones have been met with extreme skepticism from the scientific community. It has been well established that such biological structures and molecules should not last beyond a few tens of thousands of years, and could not possibly survive millions of years. So why are they there?
Scientists have made multiple attempts to debunk Schweitzer’s findings...
(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...
No Bolobaby, I used the words of scientists to show that there was universal agreement that the very upper limit for dino soft tissue to remain intact was in the thousands of years—not 65 million years! They are hostile witnesssess who have inadvertantly strengthened the case for biblical creation, which requires dinos within the last four or five thousand years. As usual, God’s account of creation is validated, whereas this is just one more area where Darwood’s unscientific/materialist creation myth bites the dust (along with neo-Darwinism’s so-called “tree of life,” “junk” DNA, beads-on-a-string model of the genome, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc).
Which is rather ironic considering that they all use different versions and translations of the Bible.
“The precise recipe of environmental conditions that lead to such molecular preservation is still a mystery” - Mary H. Schweitzer”
—I’ve seen quotes like this applied to the mammoths found, and to mummies, the bog people, the people buried in the desert in eastern China, etc which everyone agrees are thousands of years old. There are still mysteries as to how fossilization and preservation works, and to how long organic material can last in various conditions.
“It takes a great deal of faith to believe a million year old tissue can be preserved, but one would have to be completely entrenched in Darwinism to believe an 80 million year old soft tissue can be preserved. There is no scientific evidence to back this claim. “
—There’s also no scientific evidence to back the claim that it CAN’T be preserved.
“Of course, at first, they will automatically say that it is preserved in an unknown way, but that knee jerk reaction is not good enough for me, nor should it be good enough for science either.”
—Well, sure they’ll say that, not because it’s a knee jerk reaction, but because it’s true. Why does this sample have proteins while virtually all others don’t? Do you know? Apparently it was preserved in some unknown way.
There are some ideas though. In the very next sentence after the quote you give is: “However, she notes, the team’s research suggests that the sudden burial of a dinosaur carcass in a porous, sandy material seems be one key to such exceptional fossilization.”
“Thousands of years and tens of millions of years are two completely different things entirely.”
—And the level of preservation of the dinos and mammoths are also two completely different things. Even the best preserved dinos - a one in a million find - are still just rock with microscopic pieces of hardly protein molecules buried deep inside which can only be found with the latest highly sensive equipment. But mammoths and people from thousands of years ago are found which, again, appear to have died yesterday. I joked about dino steaks in the last post, but one really CAN make mammoth steaks from many different finds. From a YEC perspective (which I’m not sure if you’re advocating or not), such a disparate difference in preservation from two different kinds of animals, both of which are supposedly thousands of years old, would seem difficult to explain. Even more difficult to explain (IMO) than finding bits of protein tens of millions of years old. It seems clear that dinos are vastly older than mammoths - an utterly different time period.
“No Bolobaby, I used the words of scientists to show that there was universal agreement that the very upper limit for dino soft tissue to remain intact was in the thousands of years—not 65 million years!”
Yes, but, science has a well established tradition of correcting itself when new evidence is presented. Ancient scientists used to think there were only 4 elements. Newtonian physics discounted the very big and the very small. For a long time, scientists used to think the world was flat. Even now, scientists are discovering new things about our universe. Just recently, scientists discovered a new state of matter. (http://www.livescience.com/technology/090728-new-state-matter.html) This state exists only under very rare and specific circumstances... must like the rare and specific circumstances that would preserve soft tissue for myriads of millennia.
The difference here is that scientists are willing to accept that their knowledge base grows, whereas you are stuck in one place.
“No Bolobaby, I used the words of scientists to show that there was universal agreement that the very upper limit for dino soft tissue to remain intact was in the thousands of years—not 65 million years!”
—Interesting how you translated “most” into “universal agreement” and “hundreds of thousands” into “thousands”. (If someone states that there’s universal agreement among scientists that Darwinism is a fact, you’d probably object; even though I’d wager that the percentage of scientists that believe that in certain conditions proteins COULD last that long is much greater than those that disbelieve in Darwinism.)
I’ve heard and read from many different scientists over the past couple decades that dino dna will eventually be found. DNA, btw, is much more fragile than the proteins we’ve found so far. Here’s a group of such scientists here, with more in the citations:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v363/n6429/abs/363536a0.html
(Although it was later found that the discovery of 130 million year old dna was most likely a mistake, as was the 40 million year old dna mentioned in the article.)
The ONLY reason for not believing that proteins or dna would be found with dino fossils - is because none have after thousands of bones had been studied. That’s the only gauge we have. There’s no experiment or logic that says we shouldn’t be finding such material with dino fossils.
The issue for YECs is - if dinos and mammoths lived about the same time - why are the best preserved dino fossils just a handful of cases where we can detect some bits and pieces of protein molecules requiring state of the art equipment - while in the same locations we’re literally finding mammoth carcasses that look like they died yesterday?
LOL! I’m such a meany for exposing liberals that force their views on everyone else.
all-righty-then.
No, you mean liberal science marches on, right over anyone and everyone that disagrees with them. It’s the NEA, ACLU and other secular humanists that hijack science to their own ends, just like law, politics, journalism...anything and everything you people touch.
...but you already knew that.
And taking up for liberals really isn’t cool on FR.
You closet liberals are lucky you’re tolerated, unlike the intolerance you exhibit.
I’m beginning to think you’re a bot, programmed to respond on certain threads always in the same fashion.
But I think you’re “liberal”button is stuck. You’re overuse of it is ruining its effect a bit.
Is your doctor liberal? Your car? Your PC? Your gun? Is geology liberal? Chemistry? Astronomy?
What ISN’T liberal in tpanther-world? When your roof leaks, do you curse its liberalness with water? When it rains on your picnic do you curse the clouds for being so damn liberal?
Do you have kids? Do they liberal sometimes?
ping
But I think you’re “liberal”button is stuck. You’re overuse of it is ruining its effect a bit.
Is your doctor liberal? Your car? Your PC? Your gun? Is geology liberal? Chemistry? Astronomy?
What ISN’T liberal in tpanther-world? When your roof leaks, do you curse its liberalness with water? When it rains on your picnic do you curse the clouds for being so damn liberal?
Do you have kids? Do they liberal sometimes?
Ummm whattajoke...? Do you have any idea where we are? The slightest clue?
Is that a yes then?
Personally I dont’ feel that my car, computer, or gun is liberal. Nor is geology, chemistry or astronomy.
I have a lot of venom for all things “liberal” (as it means in today’s vernacular), but I don’t see it every where I look. That is pathological.
I also seem to remember that the only reason Schweitzer found the tissue this time is that the bone was broken in transit, so she took some of it and used chemicals to dissolve the minerals to see what would happen. I think she said something to the effect that no one would ordinarily dissolve a fossilized dinosaur bone, and if it hadn't already broken, she wouldn't have this time either. So thousands of bones have been studied, but not usually in a way that would reveal enclosed soft tissue structures.
“I also seem to remember that the only reason Schweitzer found the tissue this time is that the bone was broken in transit, so she took some of it and used chemicals to dissolve the minerals to see what would happen. I think she said something to the effect that no one would ordinarily dissolve a fossilized dinosaur bone, and if it hadn’t already broken, she wouldn’t have this time either. So thousands of bones have been studied, but not usually in a way that would reveal enclosed soft tissue structures.”
—Good point, I’m not sure how often dino bones are cut in half or drilled into to inspect the core. It probably isn’t the norm (none of the dino bones I’ve seen in museums were cut into in any way I could discern).
IIRC I think the bone that Schweitzer studied was cut in half because it was too large to transport whole from the remote location.
I thought rain was God crying because of something I did, or at least that’s what my parents told me.
In seriousness, the Bible states -— in black letters — that it is written in allegories to make certain that the people who were not meant to understand, don’t.
Some people just don’t get that and give serious, religious, Christians a very bad name.
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