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Romney's Radical Roots (his "John Birch Society" connection)
The National Review ^ | August 6, 2007 | Mark Hemingway

Posted on 01/09/2010 9:09:37 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege

...Romney’s argument with the Iowa talk-radio host starts with the two discussing their shared affinity for W. Cleon Skousen. “You and I share a common affection for the late Cleon Skousen,” the radio host says. The former governor agrees, affirming Skousen was his professor."

Who is Cleon Skousen you might ask? In answering that question, it’s hard to even know where to begin. Skousen was by turns an FBI employee, the police chief of Salt Lake City, a Brigham Young University professor, consigliore to former secretary of agriculture and Mormon president Ezra Taft Benson and, well, all-around nutjob.

Skousen was active with the John Birch Society throughout the 1960s, even going so far as to write another book titled The Communist Attack on the John Birch Society, accusing those that criticized Birchers as promoting Communism.

Skousen’s Communist paranoia may have reached it’s apotheosis in 1970 when the Mormon church and BYU in particular began receiving a tremendous amount of external pressure to change the church’s policy on denying the Mormon priesthood to blacks. Skousen, then a professor at BYU, published an article entitled “The Communist Attack on the Mormons” and noted that critics were employing Communist tactics which were “distorting the religious tenet of the Church regarding the Negro and blowing it up to ridiculous proportions.” The Mormon Church reversed course on its discriminatory practices in 1978 and began ordaining black men to the priesthood.

..."I sincerely doubt that Mitt Romney believes anything near as outlandish as many of the things Cleon Skousen espoused, and to be fair Skousen wrote on numerous topics with wildly varying degrees of intellectual sobriety."

(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: backstabberromney; bizarre; cpac; cult; cultist; cultistkook; cultistkooks; dictatorromney; dirtytrickromney; elections; goproud; jbs; johnbirchsociety; military; mittromney; mlk4romney; obama; palin; romney; roots; sarahpalin; teapartyconvention
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To: Finny
To compare a group with an anti-communist political agenda to a group with a sexually perverted homosexual agenda involving men and boys was the insult -- to my intelligence and to yours.

Uh, WHERE did I compare JBS to NAMBLA? I didn't--I asked where YOUR line was drawn, and asked YOU if NAMBLA did the same thing you would respond in the same way.

And you didn't want to answer, and went straight to the insults.

Nice try, but I in no way, shape or form compared JBS to NAMBLE. But since you can't answer honestly (still), you prove your dishonesty by claiming I did.

If I asked "So which is worse, a bank robber or a Nazi?" am I comparing bank robbers to Nazis?

I know you won't answer, because if you answer honestly you'll prove my point.

Game, set, and match to me.

101 posted on 01/10/2010 12:20:01 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (Bostonian conservative, atheist prolifer)
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To: Darkwolf377
If I asked "So which is worse, a bank robber or a Nazi?" am I comparing bank robbers to Nazis?

No. You would be asking someone else to compare bank robbers to Nazis.

If this gives you any trouble, ask me to explain. I will.

102 posted on 01/10/2010 12:24:28 AM PST by Chunga (Any IDIOT who says Obama would be better for the country than McCain is a disgrace - Mark Levin)
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To: Darkwolf377
So if NAMBLA started calling itself a Republican organization, you'd think a conservative should support them?

To be perfectly frank, I'm not sure the Republican Party is a Conservative organization.

As for NAMBLA, I am a conservative, and they do not get my support anyway. However, they have a right to their thoughts and opinions, just not the legal right to act on them.

Where do you get this "one or two members" standard? At what number do you say, "I'm seeing a trend, no matter what the organization's 'official' statements"?

It is my own. admittedly. How many would you require? One troll and FR is down the toilet? Two? How many?

Yours is the My Lai argument, used to brand returning veterans from SE Asia as "baby killers" because a few in one unit stepped over the line.

Unless you can prove that persons who are involved in setting the policy of the organization are in fact lying in their official statements, with the intent to diabolically deceive, then the actions of the individual members taken as individuals are just that--individual people's actions. Or would you brand every cop a criminal because some are taking bribes from drug dealers?

Should we support ACORN because they don't explicitly state they're going to try to steal elections?

When criminal behaviour is endemic in an organization, and the leaders and primary sponsors can be shown to have criminal intent, then the organization should be treated appropriately.

ACORN's founders and subsequent management, local and national, appear to be in direct alignment in their goals. There is evidence of wrongdoing, and the RICO investigation would take quite a while and tremendous resources, but will not happen because of connections to the very same people who on this website are decried as Marxists, ironically, often by the same people you seem to feel are "nutjobs", and who were asking about ACORN long before I saw anything about the organization in the news.

I've met a lot more than just one, and I've yet to meet the 'one' who is as clean of bizarre ideas as the "official" organization claims. Who should I believe, their "official" position or my lyin' eyes?

Even though I am a Christian, I must admit any idea presented in the right way can be bizzare. Like those of us who believe the Son of God was born to a virgin, lived as a sinless man, was executed by crucifixion, and resurrected before ascending into Heaven that those of us who could not live such a blameless life might be forgiven our sins and able to spend eternity close to the God wo loves us.

Everyone has a crackpot idea or two, and it all depends on how you look at it whether you consider it "crackpot".

So, specifically, what bizarre beliefs do you mean?

We've gotten over the one about the world being round (uh, true), and not the center of the universe (gosh, that one, too), so what heresies did you have in mind?

You have no idea how I "look at history," so this paragraph is menaingless straw.

True, which is why I said "might".

I can't despise both wacko leftists (who never "officially" say they're going to socialize this country--only a few in the bunch SAY it--AND wacko rightists?

Last I heard, you are free to despise anyone who isn't of a protected group, which means conservative, generally melanin deprived folks who are likely to breed their own children.

I guess if your 'friends' stab you it doesn't bleed as much, but the Constitution hasn't really been followed since before 1860 and most even here would scream bloody blue murder if it was.

Again, straw, has nothing to do with the issue we're discussing.

Not this time. In fact, it is the essential part of the whole argument. The only "crackpot" idea I have seen from the JBS folks is one of upholding the Constitution of the United States.

There is no Constitutional authority for many things our Government does, whether they were instituted by Democrat or Republican administrations, and many people--even on this site--would howl like skinned cats if those programs were shut down tomorrow. Not all of the programs, but this place is inhabited by a fair contingent of exceptional conservatives, who are conservative...except...

If SSI was shut down tomorrow, some would complain. Medicare. Federal Highway funding. Medicaid. The list goes on.

You're making my point--they pay lip service to their anti-communist stuff, but what do they REALLy do?

Well, for starters, they inform anyone who will listen what is going on. Before I 'found' Free Republic, I read their magazine, and they were way ahead of any other news source on what was going on in Washington--by six months to a year. Their position on the Constitution and their evaluation standards for those in office have not changed in that time, nor have their stringent criteria of evaluating political behaviour regardless of the party of the actors involved.

Of course, if you assume they are "crackpots", you won;t see that. Which is why I question your and other Alinskyite attempts to brand them as such. Isolate...etc.

What have the Birchers done to protect the constitution, other than that lip service you're talking about?

Educate people as to the Consititution and original intent. An ignorant populace is easily enslaved.

Which makes me wonder why you, specifically, have such animosity toward them. Surely you must have something other than them supposedly being "crackpots", something other than their saying for years that we have been trending toward global socialism, whether you call it "The New World Order" or not (Daddy Bush's words, not mine). SOmething other than their decrying the extraConstitutional actions taken by the Federal Government, regardless of who takes those actions.

So please, spell out the official positions they are taking, or even have taken which have led you to where your attitude is today.

I do not know the deep dark history of the organization, and I am not a member, I have only read some of what they have put out over the last couple of decades and have not seen anything so wrong nor objectionable as you seem to have seen. .

103 posted on 01/10/2010 12:27:49 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: rogue yam

Re your post #16.
I read the blurb from Skousen’s book you posted and found everything in his list of Communist Goals to be true with many if not most most of them accomplished.
The PC hand wringing and pissing and moaning on this thread is sickening and disgusting.


104 posted on 01/10/2010 12:34:11 AM PST by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: Darkwolf377

“........the Birchers they are a vile group that should be categorically dismissed by conservatives, and not only when we can connect them to someone we dislike.

17 posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 11:47:55 PM by Darkwolf377 (Bostonian conservative, atheist prolifer”

Atheists like you are much more distasteful than the Birchers. Atheists are a vile group that should be categorically dismissed by Conservatives.


105 posted on 01/10/2010 12:40:32 AM PST by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: BnBlFlag
I read the blurb from Skousen’s book you posted and found everything in his list of Communist Goals to be true with many if not most most of them accomplished.

Yeah, that was my point. The guy was supposed to be such an extremist yet there he was in 1958 pretty much predicting the Democrat Party platform of 2008.

106 posted on 01/10/2010 1:05:32 AM PST by rogue yam
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I’d wondered about JBS. A couple of years ago I heard the ‘racist’ label applied to the organization. Didn’t give it much thought until I stumbled across JBS’s founder, Robert Welch’s 1974 speech on YouTube [Pamela Geller also has it on her AtlasShrugs2000.typepad.com site.

What Welch stated was that the lefties would try to bust the finances of the US by continually increasing spending through entitlements, military adventures and more. That the currency would be debased and a NWO would move in, coupled with giving up our sovereignty.

Looks to me like he had it spot on.

This led me to do a bit more research. Ike chose to pave the US, instead of upgrading railways. This undoubtedly led to a trade imbalance as we became ‘hooked’ on foreign oil. Dependence on external resources has weakened our nation.

Regan, for all of his positive traits, did overspend, which also weakened the nation.

It seems to me that the JBS is truly a solid constitutional supporter, which equates to a free people, small government, solid currency, and limited foreign war entanglements.

Sadly, both parties appear to have run candidates who do not believe in these values.

Palin’s hesitation is understandable as the JBS has been portrayed as a boogey-man and the media would have latched on her appearance with JBS sponsorship spinning the story to her discredit and the discredit of constitutional conservatives.

Sometimes, one retreats to regroup and fight on a different field. Smart woman, is Sarah Palin.


107 posted on 01/10/2010 1:09:22 AM PST by FreeStateYank (I want my country and constitution back, now!)
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To: FreeStateYank
"...G. Vance Smith, a committed Mormon, now leads the Society. Vance Smith is systematically removing people from leadership positions within the John Birch Society and replacing them with Mormons. One gathers that Smith does not feel that he is accountable to the membership concerning his reasons for the replacement of longtime leadership. There seems to be no accountability factor. Longtime Birchers are leaving the Society en masse.

There seems to be a major concern that the Society is fast becoming a puppet for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. One document that I received suggests that Smith's course of action is tied in with his Mormon belief that, "The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread."

Note the words of Mormon Prophet Brigham Young:

"Will the Constitution be destroyed? No; it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, 'The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from threatened destruction.' It will be so." (Journal of Discourses,7:15.) Young also made another "prophecy" about the same circumstances: "Brethren and sisters, our friends wish to know our feelings towards the Government. I answer, they are first rate, and we will prove it too, as you will see if you only live long enough, for that we shall live to prove it is certain, and when the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the "Mormon" Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forward and do it." (Journal of Discourses, 2:182.)

There is yet a third voice explaining this" prophecy," and that is the voice of Orson Hyde, a contemporary of Joseph Smiths because he was one of his Twelve Apostles, who wrote this, also quoted in Journal of Discourses:

"It is said that brother Joseph in his lifetime declared that the Elders of this Church should step forth at a particular time when the Constitution should be in danger, and rescue it, and save it. I believe he said something like this - that the time would come when the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he, If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it." (Journal of Discourses, 6:152) Does Vance Smith believe that this is a prophecy made by his Prophet that has yet to be fulfilled, and does he see the Birch Society in all of its endeavors striving to be the group to "step forward and do it" to save the Constitution in junction with the LDS Church? Is this why he is systematically removing longtime Birchers from leadership positions and replacing them with Mormons? Time will tell." ~ Dennis Wright.

108 posted on 01/10/2010 1:30:08 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege ("When I survey the wondrous cross...")
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To: chevydude26
can somebody explain to me the bad baggage the john birch society has?

I am of the opinion they cannot.

What I see in this thread is what I normally see and have come to expect from liberals and other socialist, which is primarily, accusations without substantiation.

When I was younger, much younger, I believed the John Birch Society was un-American in its scope and purpose. I cannot recall what influence caused that belief and I was at that age than many young Americans are at now…too busy to care.

A few years ago, I came across a short video that impressed me as an accurate view of America and its Constitution. I now have grown children and eight grandchildren. I feel one day the grandchildren would wonder why their grandfather left the country in the mess they now had to deal with. I am at the age now were I do care and sorry I didn’t begin to care much earlier in life.

The video was presented as a Ten Minute History Lesson and titled “The American Form of Government”. In those ten minutes, I saw a very concise and accurate description of the Constitution’s vision for America. I say concise because it was easy to understand in its brevity and accurate because it agreed with my knowledge of the Constitution.

View the video and let me know if you disagree with its assessment. Much later I was surprised to discover the video was provided by the John Birch Society, which motives were suspect to me.

109 posted on 01/10/2010 1:34:01 AM PST by MosesKnows (Love many, Trust few, and always paddle your own canoe)
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To: Sherman Logan
Sometimes a cigar is really a cigar

Yep. The liberals have come close to banning those, too.

110 posted on 01/10/2010 1:40:28 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: rogue yam
All this John Bircher Society-LDS-Romney connections/CPAC stuff is quite enlightening if I do say so myself. I am glad I am not taking part in such a convention, which in addition to JBS has "GOProud" sponsoring it. While I believe homosexuals have every right to hold fiscally conservative viewpoints and every right to live in this country and even practice their lifestyle in private--I do not want to be a part of a party giving their agenda such a prominent sense of validation. I am glad Palin will not be attending and by contrast, "The Tea Party Convention" is made up of far more respectable organizations and speakers.

It was a huge red flag for me when Glenn Beck had the nerve to call the Constitution a "divinely inspired" document...That is blasphemous. ONLY the *BIBLE* is God-breathed!

While I appreciate a lot of the material covered on his show and his obvious patriotism--I am not sure how clear the line is between his religion and his politics. I am not aware of how a "Mormon worldview" works.

I obviously am not against the free expression of religion in this country, nor am I against allying with members of different religions around common causes--such as the pro-life movement. THAT being said, I hope Christians keep a discerning eye and remember that their primary allegiance is to Jesus Christ, HIS Gospel, HIS kingdom (which is "not of this world") and living by the Word of God. Christ must take primacy over nation, over the Constitution.

Jesus never advocated political revolt against Caesar, nor did he ever wave an American flag. Christians in this country need to keep that in mind as they prayerfully sift through how to participate in the democratic society we're so blessed live in. The early Christians of the Bible and Christians throughout other parts of the world today live under very different political conditions, places that make Obama seem like George Washington.

I am not sure where Palin stands theologically with regard to her Christianity. However, I know that her faith is genuine and not a front, and that she seeks guidance from the God of the BIBLE and not the false, creepy Book of Mormon.

111 posted on 01/10/2010 2:37:30 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege ("When I survey the wondrous cross...")
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

There’s one point in Romney’s favor, among all the digs he’s been getting here.


112 posted on 01/10/2010 4:14:46 AM PST by RoadTest (Karl Marx renamed Free Enterprise (the source of a nation's wealth) "Capitalism".)
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To: Chunga

None of the above.

Unlike you I don’t support pro-abortion candidates from any party. You’re okay trampling on the Constitution and condemning the unborn to horrible death. I’m not. Carry on, jackass.


113 posted on 01/10/2010 6:43:20 AM PST by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: chevydude26

can somebody explain to me the bad baggage the john birch society has?

... uh yes, the “baggage” is that they were so effective in fighting American Communists, that the leftist press planted a ton of lies that have been swallowed by the public, much like the smears of Joe McCarthy. They have no racist past, but when the left was recruiting MLK and most of the civil rights movement, JBS pointed it out and that to the state controlled media is “racis”...

ymmv


114 posted on 01/10/2010 8:32:08 AM PST by ElectionInspector
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To: onyx; STARWISE; MestaMachine; SunkenCiv; Bob J; mkjessup; muawiyah; jla; SJackson; Nachum; ...

JBS becomes mainstream *ping*


115 posted on 01/10/2010 8:35:05 AM PST by hennie pennie
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To: FromLori

*ping*


116 posted on 01/10/2010 8:40:49 AM PST by hennie pennie
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To: Smokin' Joe
Really eloquently well-said and valuable post and valuable to lurkers and other readers, but wasted on who it was addressed to, because his logic machine is mangled. The earlier NAMBLA "comparison" reveals thinking so desperately discombobbled, such an inability to identify straw, that one sees that on this topic, anyway, he's just squandering others' energy. His responses aren't really worth reading now, although yours are.

I stopped reading the guy's responses after he failed to perceive the ridiculousness of his argument bringing NAMBLA into it -- whether or not the JBS is good or bad has become beside the point; the point is that this particular poster is worthy of being skipped on this thread because he lacks sensible arguing skills. I don't know about on other threads or other topics, but on this one ... nah.

117 posted on 01/10/2010 9:10:24 AM PST by Finny ("Raise hell. Vote smart." -- Ted Nugent.)
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To: Ripliancum
I believe Romney is more centrist than I would like, but what he had to work with in Mass, he's given a bad rap in many respects.

Mitt Romney was even farther left before he won the race for Governor of Massachusetts, it was during his Governor's term that Mitt started trying to reshape himself as a moderate republican for the 2008 race rather than the hard left man that he was.

118 posted on 01/10/2010 10:00:36 AM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: Ripliancum; CondoleezzaProtege
And as for being a lifelong Mormon and leader at that, it's still mind boggling to me how someone so committed to his "faith" ever had to go through a "flip flop" on such a crucial issue as abortion. And his devout Mormon wife donated money to Planned Parenthood, an organization with roots in racism and eugenicism. Shouldn't Mormons be pro-life by default? Have they flip-flopped on their Mormonism too?

It is much worse than that, Mitt himself did fund raising for Planned Parenthood, he used to donate and fund raise only for pro abortion candidates in races against republicans, in the interview with Mickelson, Romney says that Mormon leaders can be pro choice, that the Mormons do not have to be pro life.

Romney says that the Mormon church does not say that all Mormons have to be prolife, and that even some in leadership are proabortion.

119 posted on 01/10/2010 10:16:35 AM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: Dick Bachert; Darkwolf377
I don’t know how old you are, but if it hadn’t been for the nasty old Birchers raising hell about the push to totalitarian government here, it would have been all over years ago. And WHAT were YOU doing in the 50s and 60s to help??

I don't remember the JBS doing anything, I was trying to learn about them in the 50s and 60s but in time I came to think of them as a bunch of weirdos that sold books to each other and did not participate in politics, it was like a closed little group of conspiracy nuts marketing their writings to each other.

Did they used to win elections, write legislation, endorse winning candidates? What did they do do that was significant to American elections.

120 posted on 01/10/2010 10:24:30 AM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege; Ripliancum
I also find it admirable that Palin’s son is in the military while none of Romney’s five sons have served in such a way in any capacity. This (among other things) means a lot to me considering we are a nation at war.

Palin's father also served in the Army, no Romney man has served the United States of America as a military man, this must be more than a coincidence, since it well predates the Civil War.

In immediate history, Mitt's father (no military service WWII), was the anti war republican candidate for president while his draft avoiding son was living in France during the Vietnam war, while he was campaigning.

Mitt Romney had five military age sons while he was campaigning to be the war time Commander in Chief, but no Romney man will put on the uniform, they don't swing that way.

121 posted on 01/10/2010 10:37:38 AM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
Skousen’s Communist paranoia may have reached it’s apotheosis in 1970 when the Mormon church and BYU in particular began receiving a tremendous amount of external pressure to change the church’s policy on denying the Mormon priesthood to blacks. Skousen, then a professor at BYU, published an article entitled “The Communist Attack on the Mormons” and noted that critics were employing Communist tactics which were “distorting the religious tenet of the Church regarding the Negro and blowing it up to ridiculous proportions.” The Mormon Church reversed course on its discriminatory practices in 1978 and began ordaining black men to the priesthood.

Mighty white of them.

122 posted on 01/10/2010 10:47:43 AM PST by McGruff (We're Going Rogue Baby!)
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To: ansel12

I certainly hadn’t planned to spend an hour Sunday morning writing this, but you’ve really hacked me off!

They DID NOT ENDORSE CANDIDATES. They TRIED to educate the ELECTORATE so that THEY would recognize, endorse and ELECT decent candidates. Perhaps if you’d pitched in, the effort might have been more successful? The handles to the oars in a rowboat are INSIDE the boat. You and too many others stood in the water and WATCHED others take turns rowing. That certainly explains why your criticism of the JBS is ALL WET.

A major activity of EVERY JBS session I attended was a mass letter-writing to every member’s respective senators and congresscritters — HAND WRITTEN, hand addressed, 3 PARAGRAPHS MAX — on the critical issues of the day. The letters were collected by the chapter leader and mailed over the week between meetings so as to maintain a steady flow into their offices. That was long BEFORE email and faxes. And HOW MANY CONTACTS HAVE YOU MADE WITH Y0UR ALLEGED REPRESENTATIVES?

Groups of members promoted local speeches by folks who had fled communism. I MCd several speeches here by men like former KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov who was attached to Novosti Press in Moscow who DEVASTATED Teddy Kennedy. He accompanied Kennedy during his visit to the USSR and said they kept him DRUNK and he simply absorbed all the Soviet PROPAGANDA and brought it back verbatim to the States where he blathered it to any idiot reporter who’d listen. Yuri also told the 300 folks there – gee, wonder where you were those evenings? — that the USSR was the most RACIST NATION on earth, requiring EVERY citizen to carry an ID card listing his RACE.

Men like Avraham Schifrin — a Russian Jew — who tracked the Soviet gulags and the atrocities committed there.

JBS members could always be found at congressional Town Hall Meetings asking the TOUGH QUESTIONS and NOT SITTING DOWN UNTIL THEY GOT SOME KIND OF MEANINGFUL ANSWER. I have HUNDREDS of published letters-to-the editors of our local liberal fishwrappers written by me and other members over the years doing what we could to wake you and your friends the hell up.

Many of us did local radio call-in talk shows for years for little or no compensation.

And stuff like THIS!

Around 6 am on dark morning in the early 80s, 4 of us piled into a car in Atlanta with a few hundred TRIM bulletins and other fact-packed flyers detailing how then Georgia Representative Ed Jenkins and Senator Sam Nunn were voting on issues important to all citizens. Our destination was Hartwell, Georgia and an “Eggs and Issues Breakfast” hosted by a large Hartwell church.

We arrived at the church about an hour early and deployed. As folks arrived for the buffet line, each was handed some of this highly informative literature. As they waited in line, they read and chatted as new information came to their attention. Just before the invited dignitaries were to make their 20 minute speeches (aka, pitches for re-election), we made certain a supply of these flyers made it to the head table. Ed and Sam ate precious little of the fine southern breakfast cuisine before them as they periodically glanced menacingly at the table we occupied. In unison, the 4 of us smiled sweetly and waved.

When Ed and Sam each rose to speak, each devoted 16 or 17 minutes of the allotted 20 minutes TRYING TO DEFEND their DOCUMENTED VOTING RECORDS to an increasingly hostile gathering as we returned Ed and Sam’s constant withering glares with more sweet smiles and waves. It was truly one of the highlights of my early years as a political bomb-thrower. YOU should try it!

After a bit more bomb-throwing in other parts of his district, Ed Jenkins was defeated in the next election. Because he ran state-wide and we lacked the resources and manpower to cover the entire state (and he did begin to clean up his act) Sam hung on for another term or two. (And those 2 year House terms — where the power to tax and spend repose — is where the effort must be concentrated.

Bottom line? The Birchers were — and are — some of the best informed citizens in the country and, if nothing else, they BOUGHT TIME for the rest of you to WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!!

There’s MUCH, MUCH more but I think that by now and with some luck you might get the idea here.

If you’re STILL reading this – those MTV and VHI induced short attention spans can be SUCH a problem – please know that I am positively giddy with anticipation as I look forward to your response. I’m certain it will contain a lengthy list of things YOU and your friends have done and are now doing along these lines to keep this place FREE of the tyranny born of citizen apathy and indolence.

Let me leave you with some wise and timeless words from two thousand years ago:

“We believe a man should be concerned about public as well as private affairs, for we regard the person who takes no part in politics not as merely uninterested but as useless.” –Pericles (Citizen of Athens)


123 posted on 01/10/2010 11:33:30 AM PST by Dick Bachert (.THE 2010 PRECINCT MEETINGS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT IN OUR LIFETIMES. BE THERE!!)
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To: Dick Bachert

TAXMAN BRAVO ZULU!


124 posted on 01/10/2010 12:17:07 PM PST by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: Taxman

Thanks.

Can’t WAIT to see his reply. Might take awhile for him to find someone in his circle to READ it to him.

I meant to also mention that Larry McDonald once remarked that the piece of correspondence that literally scared hell out of the critters up there was the piece of balogna stained brown lunch sack with one sentence — all caps —scrawled across it in Magic Marker. The American worker who sent that one was REALLY PISSED!!!

Might have been a more effective campaign than the current one involving the pink slips.

Be safe, my friend.


125 posted on 01/10/2010 12:36:05 PM PST by Dick Bachert (.THE 2010 PRECINCT MEETINGS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT IN OUR LIFETIMES. BE THERE!!)
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To: Dick Bachert

That post pretty much reads like the JBS, it doesn’t sound like they amounted to much, as I said, they seemed like an odd, closed, group of conspiracy guys, that pretty much talked and sold books to each other, I never could find much concrete presence in the American political system.

Your insisting on attacking people personally is pretty much JBS as well.


126 posted on 01/10/2010 12:59:24 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: ansel12

Wow, I did not know as much about Romney’s abortion record. Thank you so much for informing me.


127 posted on 01/10/2010 1:33:35 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege ("When I survey the wondrous cross...")
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To: ansel12

An old friend often warned us to never try to teach a pig to sing. It just wastes your time and really annoys the pig.

You, sir, are a pig and this conversation is over.

Now back over to Democrat Underground with a full report on how you were insulted on FR by some guy who insisted on employing FACTS. Boohoo.


128 posted on 01/10/2010 2:11:49 PM PST by Dick Bachert (.THE 2010 PRECINCT MEETINGS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT IN OUR LIFETIMES. BE THERE!!)
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To: Dick Bachert

Seriously, your post is exactly typical of a JBS guy, in the meantime, none of us have learned of any effective, or substantive role that they have played in electoral politics. They were like a little club of disgruntled conspiracy guys that sold books to each other.


129 posted on 01/10/2010 2:16:00 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: ansel12

As I recall, George W. Romney was a staunch critic of the JBS and claimed hat Goldwatrer had cozied up to the Birchers. Romney refused to endorse Goldwater in 1964, and Romney won in MI.


130 posted on 01/10/2010 2:21:00 PM PST by Theodore R. (...)
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To: Theodore R.; CondoleezzaProtege; Ripliancum
The Romney's have always been against anyone from the right, regardless of their merits.

In 1964 (Convention) George and Mitt walked out on Goldwater in protest, in the 1980s Mitt dropped his republican registration in protest of President Reagan, Romney also has quotes like this in his past as he explains the Romney family traditional, political beliefs.

"I'm not a partisan politician. My hope is that, after this election, it will be the moderates of both parties who will control the Senate, not the Jesse Helmses."

131 posted on 01/10/2010 2:30:14 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: SunkenCiv; bgill; Whenifhow; malkee; STE=Q; rocco55; thouworm; rxsid; GOPJ; Fred Nerks; ...
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Romney's Radical Roots (his "John Birch Society" connection)

. . . . See links at #5.

'Cause we need to know these things.

132 posted on 01/10/2010 3:08:45 PM PST by LucyT
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To: ansel12

Your fact-filled posts are totally unworthy of a reply.


133 posted on 01/10/2010 3:35:10 PM PST by Dick Bachert (.THE 2010 PRECINCT MEETINGS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT IN OUR LIFETIMES. BE THERE!!)
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To: Dick Bachert

My “fact filled” posts are a question, for fifty years, since I first started visiting the JBS free book stands, I have wondered what they do and what they accomplish, it always comes up to zilch to me.


134 posted on 01/10/2010 3:41:59 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: ansel12; Dick Bachert

Few were, and are, more vilified than the JBS. Few, if any, have ever been more correct. Not least among their correct observations are the ones regarding the UN and the ones regarding many of our “ leaders “ such as Frank Church and Jimmy Carter.

Perhaps we’d have been well off to listen.


135 posted on 01/10/2010 4:39:29 PM PST by coonass
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To: SierraWasp

Really? Explain Barry O. then. LOL


136 posted on 01/10/2010 4:45:24 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: coonass

Again, they never did anything meaningful, they were like a private club that ranted among themselves, in private.


137 posted on 01/10/2010 4:59:48 PM PST by ansel12 (anti SoCon. Earl Warren's court 1953-1969, libertarian hero, anti social conservative loser.)
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To: MosesKnows

Thank you for posting the link to the 10 minute history lesson. It refreshed me about our form of government. It has been so many years since I was taught those things. I sent the link to a lot of people on my e-mail list.


138 posted on 01/10/2010 6:30:14 PM PST by Spunky (You are free to make choices, but not free from the consequences)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

I’m only interested in Conservatives. All the Republicans can go suck an egg.


139 posted on 01/10/2010 7:30:04 PM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: Reagan Man
Maroon.

It's not just a color in the Crayola® box anymore.

140 posted on 01/10/2010 10:17:33 PM PST by Chunga (Any IDIOT who says Obama would be better for the country than McCain is a disgrace - Mark Levin)
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To: Ripliancum

LOL

Sometimes people who are denounced as crackpot really are crackpots.

Sometimes they are wise people being smeared by their opponents.

A smart person tries to differentiate.


141 posted on 01/11/2010 7:19:33 AM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
My regard for Romney just went up a notch.

Yes. This is the first positive thing I have read about Romney in years.

142 posted on 01/11/2010 7:25:18 AM PST by NeoCaveman (Momma beats Obama in 2012, you betcha)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
Exactly what did the John Birch society do or advocate that was so beyond the pale as to be “bizarre?” There have been articles posted from their journal on this site that were well-written and advocated sensible views. And I have never seen specifics about anything that their members did or advocated that wsa "nutty." There must be some historical record of such behavior or views that supports these contentions if they have validity.
143 posted on 01/11/2010 9:41:23 AM PST by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them or they more like we used to be?)
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To: Reagan Man

Reagan Man: The JBS did not oppose Reagan’s two campaigns for Governor of California. And in 1980, Robert Welch (head of the JBS) told reporters that he planned to vote for Reagan for President.


144 posted on 01/11/2010 8:30:38 PM PST by searching123 (BirchSociety, CleonSkousen, GlennBeck, FBI)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

The article you posted contains a factual error.

Cleon Skousen’s publication entitled “The Communist Attack on the John Birch Society” — was NOT a “book”. It was a 12-page pamphlet which, incidentally, you can see here:

http://www.zeios.com/OurRepublic/Article/27

Despite Mr. Skousen’s reputation as a knowledgeable and authoritative researcher, his “Communist Attack” article contains major factual errors and reveals incredible analytical shallowness.

Furthermore, Mr. Skousen and his admirers (such as the John Birch Society) misrepresented his FBI career.

For a detailed report on Skousen which is based, primarily, upon documents in his FBI personnel file (and a related file), see: http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/skousen


145 posted on 01/11/2010 8:30:50 PM PST by searching123 (BirchSociety, CleonSkousen, GlennBeck, FBI)
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To: searching123
Back in Reagans day, the JBS didn't endorse candidates. I think that is still the case today. But the JBS did oppose Reagan's agenda for/as Governor and President. They thought Reagan was far too liberal.

While Reagan didn't alienate any voter, he said if individuals wanted to accept his philosophy that was fine with him, but he wasn't buying the philosophy of any group. This is what Reagan had this to say about the JBS:

"I have never been and I am not now a member of the John Birch Society, nor do I have any intention of ever becoming a member. I have never sought Birch Society support, nor do I have any intention of doing so should I become a candidate for public office. In my opinion those persons who are members of the John Birch Society have a decision to make concerning the reckless and imprudent statements of their leader, Mr.[Robert]Welch".

Ronald Reagan, September. 24, 1965, Ref: "Reagan: a life in letters", pages 171-172.

In 1980, the Public Relations Director for JBS, John McManus had said Reagan was a "lackey" for communist conspirators. Robert Welch denounced McManus for his remarks about Reagan, but later realized Reagan didn't meet his expectations as potus.

146 posted on 01/11/2010 10:30:09 PM PST by Reagan Man ("In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.")
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To: ansel12

The answer as to what the JBS did to save the country was, apparently, “They had meetings and talked to each other.”


147 posted on 01/14/2010 11:18:03 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (Bostonian conservative, atheist prolifer)
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To: Reagan Man

ReaganMan: The JBS, as an organization, did not (as you wrote) “oppose Reagan’s agenda for/as Governor and President”.

Some specific members of (and writers for) the JBS were hostile toward Reagan as President but, as I pointed out in my previous message, in 1980, Robert Welch announced that he planned to vote for Reagan. Mrs. Welch subsequently resigned from the JBS partly because of what she considered the unfair attacks upon Reagan in the JBS magazine.

Interestingly, many of the politicians whom the JBS scored at 100% on their “Conservative Index” (such as Sen. Jesse Helms and Cong. Ron Paul) were glowing in their praise of what Reagan accomplished -— although, in later years, Cong. Paul expressed disappointment that Reagan did not dismantle more of government.

Since the Birch Society is a highly ideological organization, and is composed of people who rarely have extensive political experience, they approach all public policy matters with absolutist certitudes. In the real-world, incremental change is the norm. Reagan was able to transform government and motivate a new generation of conservative leaders in ways which no previous Republican had ever achieved. 100 years from now, there will still be books and doctoral dissertations written about his impact upon our country -— whereas the Birch Society will be totally forgotten.


148 posted on 02/04/2010 10:50:40 AM PST by searching123 (BirchSociety, CleonSkousen, GlennBeck, FBI)
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To: marron

Marron: Your comment suggesting that the Venona papers confirmed Sen. McCarthy’s hallucinations is completely false.

One of our nation’s foremost scholars about the McCarthy period (Dr. John Earl Haynes) has written several articles which compare McCarthy’s assertions to newly available data including, for example, the Venona papers and material in KGB archives.

See for example:
(1) Senator Joseph McCarthy’s Lists and Venona
http://www.johnearlhaynes.org/page62.html
(2) Exchange with Arthur Herman and Venona book talk
http://www.johnearlhaynes.org/page58.html

With respect to Joe McCarthy:

Whittaker Chambers summed it up pretty well in his 1/14/54 letter about McCarthy to conservative book publisher Henry Regnery, when Chambers observed that....

“All of us, to one degree or another, have slowly come to question his judgment and to fear acutely that his flair for the sensational, his inaccuracies and distortions, his tendency to sacrifice the greater objective for the momentary effect, will lead him and us into trouble. In fact, it is no exaggeration to say that we live in terror that Senator McCarthy will one day make some irreparable blunder which will play directly into the hands of our common enemy and discredit the whole anti-Communist effort for a long while to come.”

FBI security informant Herbert Philbrick told a Boston newspaper reporter that:

“He [McCarthy] harmed the cause of anti-communism more than anybody I know.”

And in 1952, Philbrick observed:

“According to the Communist leaders, McCarthy has helped them a great deal. McCarthy’s kind of attacks add greatly to the confusion, putting up a smokescreen for the Party and making it more difficult than ever for people to discern who is a communist and who is not.”

FBI Supervisor, Robert J. Lamphere, supervised the investigations of some of the biggest espionage cases of the cold war, including those of the Rosenbergs, Klaus Fuchs and Kim Philby plus he was intimately involved, in conjunction with Meredith Knox Gardner of the Army Security Agency, in using deciphered Soviet cables to build espionage cases.

Lamphere wrote on pages 136-137 of his 1968 book “The FBI-KGB War: A Special Agent’s Story” that:

“Senator McCarthy’s crusade which was to last for the next several years, was always anathema to me. McCarthy’s approach and tactics hurt the anti-Communist cause and turned many liberals against legitimate efforts to curtail Communist activities in the United States, particularly in regard to government employment of known Communists…McCarthy’s star chamber proceedings, his lies and overstatements hurt our counterintelligence efforts.”


149 posted on 02/24/2010 10:54:36 AM PST by searching123 (BirchSociety, CleonSkousen, GlennBeck, FBI)
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To: SierraWasp

Interestingly, Mitt Romney’s dad (George) made the following comment about the Birch Society and the GOP when he was Governor of Michigan:

“I think the party’s future depends upon repudiating the John Birch Society as an organization and avoiding any possibility of the society developing influence within the Party. I think this is because from experience, I have found that the John Birch Society as an organization uses methods of infiltration and subversion and tactics that we associate with other secret organizations like the Communists. And while there are members of the society that I am sure are not themselves responsible for such conduct, this conduct on the part of the organization makes it essential, as far as I’m concerned, that the Republican Party repudiate the John Birch Society as an organization.”

Cited in Chapman v. Romney, Docket #1810, Michigan Court of Appeals, 2/14/67 [6 Mich App 36 (1967); 148N.W. 2d 230]. Chapman, a member of the JBS, sued Gov. Romney for slander. The Court found in favor of Governor Romney.


150 posted on 02/24/2010 10:58:09 AM PST by searching123 (BirchSociety, CleonSkousen, GlennBeck, FBI)
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