Posted on 11/10/2011 1:31:44 PM PST by Colofornian
Edited on 11/10/2011 1:42:30 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Folks, this is Joe Paterno's legacy.
E-mails jump into my inbox defending Paterno...
I won't remember what Paterno did, but what he didn't do. What he didn't do is what got him fired...
Firing Joe Paterno doesn't fix everything, but it's a great start.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
No doubt. He should have left in 2005 at the latest, but more probably in the late 90s. He just doesn’t have the mental faculties to deal with the job anymore, and it’s manifesting itself this week.
In 2002. After Sandusky was retired. Even then the AD and the VP still said there was nothing there. He had the word of one man v. the entire PSU apparatus.
Now, should Joe have made the effort to put 2+2 together and realize there was something there and followed up? Yes he should have. He didn’t because or moral cowardice, self-absorbedness, CYA, and negligent inaction and just didn’t want to see. That doesn’t mean he KNEW and you certainly can’t prove with the info we have that he KNEW in 1998.
And it certainly doesn’t mean he protected Sandusky. We have no evidence he used his position to do so.
Excuse me for wanting to strike while the iron is hot, and not falling for the media psyops, and not having sympathy for kids who supposed to be so able to ‘get over’ it.
We have become a society that dwells on insignificant things and ignores the important. Not my problem.
I see you want to keep Joe's issue in the headlights.
Geez, this is getting old...
Everyone in State College knew about the 1998 investigation. What did Joe do? When Sandusky left more than a year after the 1998 incident, Joe referred to him as 'like a son'. Joe kept quiet in 2002. One word from Joe to the right people would have prevented the rape of dozens (hundreds?) of little boys.
I admire that zeal.
In fact, I spoke positively of it at the beginning of post #168...and thought so highly of how you finished up a post I cited it to another poster in #169.
More personal attacks. You are beyond hope falsely claiming that we are not concerned about the kids. Joe is gone. Move on.
His inaction allowed Sandusky to rape kids. One word to the proper people and Sandusky would have been stopped.
For the record, my dislike for Joe Paterno commenced with disparaging remarks he made against Alabama at the end of the 1979 Sugar Bowl. But that has no bearing on my opinions regarding the facts of this case.
Paterno testifies that a "visibly upset" McQueary came by his house and reported what he had seen. He also testified that 24 hours later, he relayed an account to the AD that differs from McQueary's testimony.
The bottom line here is that for a decade, Paterno continued his working relationship with both McQueary and Sandusky. There is a disturbing disconnect with that. For ten years, he has known that McQueary saw and heard Sandusky raping a 10-year-old boy in his locker room shower. Yet during those same ten years, he continues his friendship with Sandusky, ensuring that he had campus access and perks.
Paterno is no victim here. He knew what happened, and he did nothing to protect Penn State. And he certainly did nothing to help those young boys who would be getting raped for the next ten years.
My bad then. Thank you.
“Everyone is State College knew”
Please define “everyone”. If the thought is this was common knowledge around town, that’s a misperception.
“Please define “everyone”. If the thought is this was common knowledge around town, that’s a misperception.”
People we know that knew Sandusky raped little boys.
President Spanier
AD Curley
VP Schultz
PSU Attorney Wendell Courtney
Second Mile Attorney Wendell Courtney
University Police (Detective Ronald Schreffler)
State College Police (Detective Ralph Ralston)
Department of Welfare (Investigator Jerry Lauro)
Child Services
County DA Gricar
County Prosecutors
Coach McQueary
Coach Paterno
Various elementary and high school officials
John DiNunzio (Keystone Central School District Interim Superintendent)
Second Mile officials
Joe Paterno’s staff including down to the janitors
Still to be determined:
Media
NCAA Coaches (Nobody wanted him when he retired)
Board of Trustees
That list is fine, but when you make statements to the effect that this was public knowledge you’re painting with an overly broad brush.
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/09/11/no-3-alabama-beats-no-23-penn-state-27-11/
The obsessive fixation on Paterno is not an obsessive fixation at all, but rather an appropriate reaction to those on these boards who actually have the chutzpah to claim that Paterno is merely a scapegoat or victim. Young boys got raped. That should be the concern - not that Paterno was wrongly fired.
Let me reprase the. The knowledge was in the public domain ...
“Everyone in State College knew about the 1998 investigation...”
DID they? No charges were filed. That would be private information in Iowa. I’m sure there were rumors, but then again maybe there weren’t.
Now IF the details of that, i.e. the on tape confession, came to Joe’s ears, now that’s a different story. But we have no proof that it did, other than second hand I doubt he was privy to the actual police report. Even so Joe suspected something because Sandusky was booted out. But that was suspicion only as far as we know.
‘Suspicion’ is not ‘knowing’. Moving heaven and earth on suspicion is at best risky. I’ve done that myself only to be dead wrong and caused more damage than I sought to fix. You are a bit more limited when confined to suspicion.
Even the second incident in 2002 - again the authorities found nothing. There was still no proof other than the word of McQueary, so even if Joe believed McQueary he still had no real proof but just suspicion.
Should he have followed up? Yes. Should he have moved heaven and earth? You say he should have give a word to the proper people. Well guess what, that was done in 1998 and they ignored a TAPED CONFESSION. What would have going to the cops done on the word of a grad student done in 2002?
For the media it is. Rumors are floating of a sex ring, and you can bet the pedo loving liberal media will NOT want that exposed. They would love to keep the focus on Joe.
Oh, OK. I see where you’re coming from.
Child services and two police departments made investigations. Are you saying no one interviewed the dude's boss and the person responsible for the facilities where the dude was raping little boys? It does not wash.
One call to Tom Ridge would have stopped it cold. Give me a break.
In case you haven’t heard, Sandusky was out THIS YEAR recruiting for Joe Paterno.
Sam Stellatella, a Penn State player from the 1950s who admits he doesn't listen to the news and has not read the reports of what Sandusky has done "because he would get too upset" has donated money to a defense fund for Sandusky. He's personally contacting other former players and is encouraging other former Penn State players to do the same.
Sweet Jerry Garcia on a pogo stick. The world has lost its mind. I thought University of Alabama fans were fanatical.
Do they have a writer scripting this stuff?
First, we don't know what Sandusky said on the tape. It was a conversation with the mother in which Jerry Sandusky 'confessed' to something that would have been molestation. Apparently whatever Sandusky said that someone listening would say "oh, jeez, he did it," but not enough that a DA felt he could bring a case against, and convict, one of the most powerful men in Pennsylvania. A man known throughout the state.
A man who had started a charity to help troubled youth. A man who had adopted kids and served as a foster parent to others. A man whose best friend was probably Joe Paterno and whose character witnesses may have included Joe Paterno and over twenty years' worth of Penn State football players.
And we don't know that the tape was admissible as evidence.
And, if I'm not mistaken, the DA didn't have the file from the University Police investigation of at least two additional incidents; the file that VP Schultz was surprised in 2002 to find was 'so big."
And Sandusky wasn't booted out, at least according to the Official Penn State Story. Sandusky was told he would not replace Joe Paterno as head coach, although he was the heir apparent. Sandusky had just been named NCAA Assistant Coach of the Year. As a football coach? Sandusky is considered one of the greatest college coaches never to be a head coach. Probably THE greatest. So Sandusky 'took an early retirement' and was given emeritus status by the University.
In retrospect, he may have been told "you will not replace Joe Paterno . . . because you shower with little boys and were investigated for molesting one." Because it may be private information in Iowa or Pennsylvania, but there's not much involving the Penn State football program that would have been private from Joe Paterno according to any reliable source.
You have a 'suspicion' that Sandusky 'confessed' on tape. More likely, he said something that indicated, yep, he did it. But it wasn't a confession. And more likely, not enough to go after the defensive coordinator at Linebacker U.
While "employee" is defined in the statute, "agent" is not. My guess is that no appellate court in PA has ruled on whether an emeritus faculty member qualifies as an agent under the statute. And Penn State's lawyers (allow me a moment of self-loathing as a lawyer) have informed the Trustees that they may be subject to suit by McQueary for firing him.
for the purposes of this conversation, no one considered them an "outside agency", we considered them part of the state establishment. I have no idea what would have happened if someone had called the 800 number at 2:00 A.M. but they are in Indianapolis. The preferred chain of command was indeed within the facility. The next step would have been the 800 number, the next step, the state police etc etc. but only if all other steps had failed.
The DOC officially stated they were an 'external' agency.
Hypothetical board discussion:
Member B: What do we do about McQueary?
Member A: Later. We have to first get rid of Spanier and Paterno.
Member C: The students are rioting. Perhaps we should say that we fear for McQueary’s safety and that is why he wont be on the sidelines this game.
Member A: Good. We can push that issue back to the next meeting.
McQueary placed on administrative leave.
Having advised a number of those boards and attended too many of those meetings, that's usually followed adjournment and the group moving to the room with the good liquor and food. Cigars were once involved, but as much now that the boards are more representative of the genders.
I think this meeting was serious enough that there may have been liquor but not the food.
Where? In College Station?
Report Of Jerry Sandusky Contacting Penn State Recruit Deemed False
I almost added the move for adjourment and second to my post ... having been at a few of these types meetings (not quiet at that level).
I watched Ah Ching’s video. If he is lying, he is no longer in top linebacker list.
the best place to start is the 23 page grand jury presentment.
use google search words
sandusky presentment
you will be amazed at how “welcome” this monster was on campus right up until last week.
Last night I went on WAYBACK and then posted a bunch of rewards Sandusky got in 1999 and the years following. I quit after 2000 because I was getting worn out from posting.
I’ve been trying to wrap my brain around this all week.
I simply cannot come up with any explanation for what we are learning.
Sorry, I was out late and up early. I took advantage by phone of a Pennsylvania Bar Association friend who had an extra glass or two of wine last night.
He said something like "Awww. The mom just talked a lot. Read Victim #6. Those were the taped calls. Jerry admitted showering with the kid and hugging him but not admitted molesting the kid. Jerry apologized and said he wanted to kill himself."
Well, he was close, despite the wine. The tape relates to "Victim #6" in the Grand Jury Presentment.
According to Page 19, as State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston (the real police; not the University police) listened in on the phone:
'the mother confronted Sandusky about showering with her son; the effect it had on her son; whether Sandusky had sexual feelings when he hugged her naked son in the shower and where Victim 6's buttocks where when Sandusky hugged him.
Sandusky said he showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tried to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again, but he would not.
She asked him if his 'private parts' touched Victim 6 when he bear-hugged him. Sandusky replied "I don't think so . . . maybe."
At the conclusion of the second call, the mother told Sandusky he could not see Victim 6 again. Sandusky said:
"I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."
The GJ presentment says that Sandusky was interviewed by a public welfare agent and a detective; admitted he showered with Victim 6 and hugging him in the shower, and admitted it was wrong. He was told not to do it again.
Victim 6 didn't allege any sexual acts with Sandusky, just the showering. Multiple showers, back rubs, or saunas appear to have led to increasing invasive sexual contact by Sandusky with a victim. Victim 6 reported the incident to his mother after the first shower in the locker room by Holuba Hall at Penn State. So that's it. No wonder Gricar didn't indict him.
Sandusky was taped admitting that he showered with boys and that he hugged one. That's wrong but doesn't meet the legal standard for molestation. And his contribution and request for forgiveness represented evidence of guilt . . . but guilt for what? Molesting or doing something wrong such as the admitted nude showering and hugging?
At the time, Sandusky was the defensive coordinator at Penn State, the most famous assistant coach in football, the founder of a well-known youth charity with Trustees from every famous corner of sports, a father and foster parent, the creator of Linebacker U's name, a man 35 years' of connection to Penn State.
Gricar couldn't convicted him for molestation based on two tapes in which Sandusky admitted to showering with a boy and hugging him, and then apologizing for it and saying he was wrong.
And at this point, I am putting on the attorney hat that I hate to ever wear.
I would suggest Gricar knew about the 2002 incident.
I also figure that since McQueary is THE key state's witness in so many cases, they've conveyed to PSU that at least in the short run he can't be touched paycheck-wise...while they all know that a new head coach has a right to bring in whatever assts he wants...
Hence, I've seen from two other FREEPERs last night comments that McQueary has communicated to members of the team that "I'm done" as coach.
He'll continue to draw a paycheck for a while...but his "administrative leave" will dovetail with the State wanting to ensure he is protected (probably out of town).
I've heard similar expressions from other homosexuals when they face those they know have been loved ones of homosexual victims. It is a unique thought which appears to manifest volumes of their thinking.
Consider 1stJohn 1:9. Forgiveness occurs when one faces the victim of one's unrighteous act, confesses it, and repents or turns away from that type of thinking with their volition.
The missing element in these types of criminal actions is the volition to not commit the crime.
Consequentially, they still recognize their criminality, the just response of their victim, their honest admission of their feeling, but refusal to change their volition, and inability to understand forgiveness.
Even when they speak around their guilt, they speak volumes as to their motives and thinking.
You have to first prove that Paterno was interviewed. Even that doesn’t mean much because I doubt he knew anything. He wouldn’t have known anything else the cops did except by rumor. I have seen no proof that he definitively knew any details of the investigation or of the tapes or anything on them.
Calling Tom Ridge? Give ME a break. That’s just pure liberal manipulative crap. Don’t use children as emotional human shields to justify that the whole entire world needs to stop because someone suspects something MIGHT be happening. You don’t call out the Marines till you got hard facts, and you have none.
You’re welcome to find proof of what Joe knew. Until then I’m not falling for your hype.
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