Posted on 01/05/2012 11:23:02 AM PST by Jim Robinson
Tea party favorite and pro-life conservative Sarah Palin and her family were viciously attacked to the point she chose not to run.
Congressional Tea Party Caucus leader and constitutional pro-life conservative Michele Bachmann had early promise, but I guess came across as too "shrill" and consequently her numbers driven down to the point she exited.
Successful pro-life conservative Texas Governor Perry hit the race at the top but due to missteps and less than stellar debate performances soon fizzled and is now all but gone.
Pro-life conservative businessman Cain and his famous 9-9-9 plan had promise, but was driven out due to indefensible allegations.
Pro-life Reagan Revolution conservative Newt Gingrich reinvigorated his campaign and soared to the top of the national polls, but was unacceptable to the establishment and apparently also unacceptable to the "true conservatives" among us and his numbers are now plummeting
You'd think "unquestionably" pro-life, pro-family conservative Rick Santorum whose recent surge took him to a tie in Iowa and who's now surging in the national polls might be good enough to stand against Romney for the base, but looks like there are "true conservatives" now attacking HIM as not good enough.
Well, drive them all out and who's left?
Huntsman? Who? Moonbat Paul?
Ideas anyone? Should we all continue attacking the conservatives we don't like until we drive them all out?
Personally, I could easily have lived with Palin, Bachmann, Cain, Perry, Newt or Santorum and would be proud to enthusiastically support any of them, warts and all. Any one of them is infinitely better than Obama or Romney.
But if we don't land on one soon and raise him up over Romney, guess who we're going to be stuck with? And it ain't going to be pretty. And if abortionist/statist/progressive Romney (or moonbat Paul) is the one, might as well get used to four more years of Obama. I won't vote for or support either one of those two.
I'd suggest that we all stop trying to tear down the other conservative candidates in the race and instead concentrate on trying to build up our own personal favorites. Who knows? May even discover an acceptable conservative (if not a great conservative) in the bunch. We've never had a perfect conservative yet. Not even the magnificent Ronald Reagan. We and they all have warts.
But we do want to have a candidate with at least an actual CONSERVATIVE record and not an out and out liberal progressive RINO. So let's compare their records and their actual conservative accomplishments but not try to destroy them personally.
God bless and may the best CONSERVATIVE be our nominee.
I dunno if you missed it but since 2000 or so, those big bad Democrats have done a considerable amount of damage to America.
While I agree that if we had a bunch of Pubbies with a semblance of courage, this would not be the case. That however, is not the case. They walked all over Bush with their media tactics and racism accusations against Rs concerning Muslims and as we speak they are doing it to Rs and anyone else who stands against them using illegals and Obama as their victim du jour.
Ignore it all you like. That does nothing to stop them. History is what it is and ignoring it is the very reason they have the power they do.
Strictly stragetically speaking, not necessarily. Reagan came within a whisker of dethroning Ford, same for The Swimmer submarining Carter. But we couldn't fail, ie the Conservative would have to thump Romney in the primaries and then turn away whoever emerged from a crowded Democrat field - quite possibly a very beatable Biden.
The issue is willingness to fight. Liberals will do ANYTHING -- lie, cheat, steal, bribe, extort, blackmail, beatings and thuggery, threaten children -- ANYTHING to win. As distasteful as it is, we will lose again unless we meet force with force. Up to this point, we're bringing nerf bats to a gun fight. This has to change or we will have lost by the summer. You think what they did to Cane was bad? You haven't seen anything yet. Conservatives are creating a 500 page book of Obama telling lies. They are loading 500 pound bombs for the total carpet bombing of every likely Republican candidate and their families. The Tea Party gave us the Republican House. I don't see that same passion building again. Perhaps it will. Maybe not. The President is a sneering gangster who does whatever he wants. If the Republicans won't take him on over his unconstitutional "recess appointments," they will do nothing to win in November. I called Scott Brown's office and told the phone guy how angry I was with this. He almost yawned. Now Brown supports these illegal appointments.
We are on the brink of seeing the worst president in history win re-election because we won't mount a good offense.
I'm terrified of him too, but winning warriors come from a place of courage, and courage comes from a place of honor and principle. Honor and principle guide our politics, and Romney has demonstrated that he lacks both entirely when it comes to conservative politics. Winning warriors squelch their fears while assessing the situation, take risks, and WIN because they're willing to take those risks. Losers let sheer fear whip them into a panic where they made knee-jerk decisions and allow their enemies choose the battleground. Romney is a statist, and statism is our enemy.
Put fear aside and start assessing the circumstances with a cooler head. If Obama won another four years, Congress would go right and our power to stop him would grow stronger. If Romney won, nationalized health care, pro-abortion, anti-gun, pro-global warming, pro homosexual agenda, and liberal activist judge appointments would be WHAT YOU VOTED FOR Republicans would be impotent to fight it, and the Republican party would become loathed and despised; THE DEMOCRAT PARTY WOULD BECOME STRONGER. And THAT death knell to the USA would be on the shoulders of YOU and others who are so scared they can't think straight.
I note that you avoid answering the question: Can you say Obama would make liberalism and statism more powerful in BOTH parties? It is hardly "conjecture" that Romney would -- we have proof of what Romney does and will do. Masschusetts, remember? So again: Can you say Obama would make liberalism and statism more powerful in both the Republican and Democrat parties?
You might try shoving fear behind you and looking that question straight in the eyes.
OWCH! Go Newt!
The Obama Years:
I can’t believe what I’m seeing!
I can’t believe what I’m seeing!
I can’t believe what I’m seeing!
I can’t believe what I’m seeing!
I can’t believe what I’m seeing!
I can’t believe what I’m seeing!
I can’t believe what I’m seeing!
What hurts the most the only people who seem to care are a minority of voters!!! :(:(:(:(:(
Thanks Jim for this thoughtful thread.
Thanks to all the FReepers who posted their replies.
Thanks Finny for bringing the “fight or flight response” into perspective for us.
_________________
This is the watershed election for the Republic that Benjamin Franklin gave us “if we can keep it.”
Three sample questions to be asked of each Republican Candidate, and amongst ourselves, are as follows:
Will the election of ANY Republican Candidate reduce BASELINE Federal spending, fiscal year to fiscal year?
What Federal programs that have not made a profit in the last 3 years will be privatized, reduced to the level of spending that is 3% less than the actual income, or phased out over 3 fiscal years? ( I use 3 % as 2 % is the inflation rate as targeted by the Fed.)
When will Federal Spending be cut to 3% below Federal Income?
The above 3 questions are based on the assumption there will be no significant financial progress made in the USA in our lifetimes, with the US Federal Government growing larger, instead of becoming significantly smaller.
As to political labels, let us ponder what the basic meanings of the two main categories are, as follows:
LIBERALS;
liberal; adj. 1.) Generous in amount or in giving.
Liberals are driven by their need to help.
Liberals believe that rich people do not need help.
Liberals believe that poor people do need help.
So, the sooner that the liberals can make the rich people poor,
The sooner the liberals can help them.
CONSERVATIVE:
conservative; adj. 1.) Favoring preservation of the existing order. - - - 4.) Tending to conserve; preserve; protect.
There are more questions that need to be asked before the Nominee in Tampa gets “the big head,” and thus stops listening to us. Among them are the following:
“Where stand you Mr. Candidate on the issue at hand?
Are you: (Boo) “Generous in the amount” that you will spend of my grandchildren’s money?
Or, (Yea) “Tending to CONSERVE; preserve; and protect” according to the Constitution of the United States of America?
BTW, “voting for electability” is a RINO habit of “playing not to lose,” just like other losing teams in football.
Romney need to lose in the primary.
Obama needs to lose in the general election.
I’m sorry you can’t see the difference. If Obama gets re-elected, Obamacare will NEVER be repealed, and you can kiss your Republic good-bye. The good news is, we won’t have to bother with discussions of RINOs anymore, because our discussions will be obsolete. We soon won’t have a nation or political system to fight about.
Right back atcha, FRiend. Romney WAS THE ARCHITECT of the Original Obamacare!!! He's STILL proud of his Romneycare in Massachusetts! ROMNEY firmly believes that the government should be the OVERRIDING player, micromanaging your relationship with your employer/employee, health insurance, and medical care (and tossing in cheap and easy tax-payer funded abortions while he's at it). WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND????
If you really believe that Romney would have anything to do with repealing Obamacare (without replacing it with his "better" version of THE SAME), then I have a great bridge I'd like to sell you.
Truly, YOU are the one who refuses to acknowledge that the differences are so slight that EITHER WAY we get Obamacare, only with Romney it would be worse because REPUBLICANS would be responsible for it, and REPUBLICANS would be powerless to stop it. At least with Obama, Republicans still have the power to fight against it as a united force. Romney would DISARM conservatives!!
Really -- sorry YOU don't see the reality!!! It's GLARING at you, FRiend!
We may have to have a brokered converntion.
Then our difference of opinion comes down to this.
I believe a GOP controlled House and Senate that repeals Obamacare can apply enough pressure to a flip-flopper like Romney to make him change his stripes for political gain.
Nobody on this forum wants Romney. Jim’s zotted all his support off the forum. I want Palin. I don’t know who you want. But none of us wants Romney.
My entire discussion is, if Romney is the nominee, I would vote for him rather than see Obama win. You would vote I guess 3rd party or write in a name, so you would hand Obama a 2nd term.
That is what is being discussed. If it comes down to Romney vs Obama, do you vote Romney or let Obama win?
Romney vs. Obama.
I hold my nose, vote Romney, and hope the GOP legislature can overwhelm him. At the very worst, Romney IS Obama, and I am no better off. I don’t see any downside to voting Romney.
You hate Romney so, that you would prefer Obama over him, not in preference, but in actual action. You hate Romney so that your actions would result in Obama being re-elected.
I KNOW Obama cannot be made to repeal his own greatest socialist achievement even with a gun to his head.
I KNOW that if Obamacare is implemented, we will soon become Britain on our way to Greece.
You seem to believe that Romney is identical to Obama and cannot be made to repeal it, while I believe he can be made to repeal it.
And that is the greatest difference between our opinions.
Gingerich/Santorum 2012
Great post. Thanks.
You are really a class act, LomanBill.
You're wrong to apply the word "hate" to my decision on what I'd do if Romney gets the nomination -- that is, put my vote elsewhere. I wonder at its appearance in our discussion, and figure "hate" comes to your mind because of your own perceptions. Let go of "hate" and maybe I'll make more sense to you, because hate is entirely absent here. It's in your perception, that's all.
For me, your weak link is in thinking a GOP legislature could overwhelm Romney; there's a slim chance you're correct, but it would be a fatal blow if you're wrong.
Why? Because in a Presidential election, the vast majority of people voting for Romney would really be voting against Obama. For many, it would the first time they voted Republican.
Romney would contine and ENRICH much of the whole enchilada they voted AGAINST. They'd feel betrayed -- by what? THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
Cynicism would become as strong as bile, the Republican party would be viewed more the party of Government Tyranny than Democrats, and the GOP would cease potential as a venue for limited government's antidote. Specifically LIMITED GOVERNMENT, which is the single best path toward both fiscal and social conservatism.
Based on observation, the liklihood is that enough of the GOP legislature would (1) be inclined to back Romney's GOP administration and (2) contain many more Democrats after a Romney Admin mid-term.
There is an enormous downside to having Romney in the White House. I am willing to gamble -- and it's taking a lot of courage, and it's difficult for obvious reasons - but I'm willing to gamble that Obama for four more years would provide Republican conservatives more of a fighting chance to reclaim the Constitution.
Well, Redleg, which Conservative Principles are the ones that get your panties in such a bunch, hmmm?
Who does your “thinking” for you - Kenny Mehlman and the Log Cabin crowd?
Principles don’t matter, as long as “we” win - right?
Cheat much?
I think everything you said is true. We have one difference.
I honestly think we can’t survive Obamacare. I don’t think anything matters beyond that because the die will be cast for the fall of America.
I wish I could agree with you that another Obama term would strengthen the conservative cause, but I see no hope for 2016 if Obama is re-elected.
If Obamacare is implemented in 2013, many employers will drop their employees insurance coverage and many insurance providers will go bust. Millions will go onto government care.
By the time the 2016 elections roll around, such a huge percentage of Americans will hooked on the US entitlements, that the voting blocks opposed to Democrats and Socialists won’t matter.
You see a life after Obamacare. I don’t. 2012 is for all the marbles. 2012 outcome is to repeal Obamacare. If we fail to repeal Obamacare, we are done. 2016 won’t matter. The conservative cause won’t matter. Nothing will matter. It will be over.
What reason is there to think Romney would be any different RE ObamaCare than Obama? If Obamacare is the bottom line, then it seems about 99.99% guaranteed that we’d have it under Romney, since he was responsible for creating and implementing its model! And CERTAINLY Republicans in Congress would have MORE influence in preventing Obama than in preventing Romney from seeing it move forward.
Well Said. I am down to the point where I’ll take Santorum, Gingrich Or Perry. Would be better than Romney. I don’t want any Rino winning. I was at one point trying to defend Bachmann in the recent past. In another I was trying to help promote Cain. I was also hoping Palin or Paul Ryan or Jim DeMint would run. None of them did so i am down now to these choices since it went this way. I’ll take either one of those three left. Better than liberal Romney and liberal Paul and liberal Obama.
We have to just disagree. We aren’t getting anywhere.
It doesn’t matter if Republicans have more influence in preventing Obama. Obamacare is law. There is nothing to prevent. We can’t “prevent” it. We have to undo it. That can’t be done unless the Republicans have 2/3rds majorities in both houses, after counting the RINOs who might vote not to overturn.
I don’t know that Romney will sign an Obamacare repeal. I just don’t know. I know for a fact that Obama will not repeal Obamacare. That is 100% ironclad non-arguable fact. Even you would agree that Obama will not repeal Obamacare.
That leaves me with a slim chance that Romney would be made to. Not voluntarily, but dragged kicking and screaming.
Now, why would I think that is possible?
Romney and Obama seem different to me. Obama is a communist with deep convictions. He doesn’t blow with the wind. He wants communism, pure and simple, and he fights for it even when it hurts him politically.
Romney seems like a classic go-along RINO. He seems like the type that of political whore that, when talking to liberals, he is “liberal” and when talking to “conservatives” he is “conservatives. When leading liberals he is for abortion and gay marriage and socialized medicine. When leading conservatives he is for tax cuts and job growth and the constitution. He is a political whore.
That is how I see it. I know you disagree. So we should leave it at that.
Now, I have explained it six ways from Sunday what my opinion is and I’ll summarize it just this once more.
#1 - Obamacare is the end of America if not repealed.
#2 - There is zero chance Obama will repeal Obamacare.
#3 - There is some chance greater than zero that Romney can be made to repeal Obamacare (In My Opinion.)
#4 - Should it turn out that Romney can’t be forced to repeal Obamacare, we are not worse off with Romney than Obama, since Obamacare is the end of the American Republic, hence nothing else matters like abortion or education or taxes or free speech, since the tyrannical communist outcome for all of those things is a given anyway once Obamacare destroys the US economy and US society.
#5 - Therefore, if the vote comes down to Romney vs Obama, it is my unwavering opinion that the best course of action is to vote for Romney and hope and pray he can be FORCED to repeal Obamacare
In summary: Obamacare must be repealed to save America. Obama will never repeal Obamacare. Therefore, any option other than Obama can never be worse for Obamacare than Obama, and has some slime chance to be better than Obamacare.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.