Canada Ping!
Posted on 10/19/2012 6:11:45 PM PDT by Engraved-on-His-hands
For the past 50 years—since the discovery of a thousand-year-old Viking way station in Newfoundland—archaeologists and amateur historians have combed North America's east coast searching for traces of Viking visitors.
It has been a long, fruitless quest, littered with bizarre claims and embarrassing failures. But at a conference in Canada earlier this month, archaeologist Patricia Sutherland announced new evidence that points strongly to the discovery of the second Viking outpost ever discovered in the Americas.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.nationalgeographic.com ...
un, that’s easy ~ min y sota!
So, tea drinkers with boats that could sail the ocean, sail up the Mississippi, found Cahokia, pass out bows and arrows and do that all before the first Viking dragon boat had been built.
Trick is the Vikings made permanant contact with the Sa'ami some time AFTER 800 AD ~ and it was the Sa'ami boat used in wild mountain rivers and the nearby Arctic ocean that served as the design base for the later scaled up ocean going Viking boats.
So, Chinese first, then Spaniards, then Vikings ~
Soil conditions change West of the mountains ~ and so far no metal tools.
The Spaniards had a survey operation going on the Acadia/Virginia line ~ at present day Spanish Hill Pennsylvania. They found extant armor, crucifixes, etc. and a buried boat. Some of the folks working out of there were picked up about 1612 by the Indians and shipped to New Jersy to the Dutch ~ where, of course, there were no Dutch in North America at the time. So, who were the Dutch in New Jersey? Were these proto-mandans? (/s) ~ more likely they were Spanish Netherlanders carving out fishing villages. I've found town sites for several dozen such places all around Souvr'n Jersey!
Great thread, thanks!
So, what happened to hanta virus epidemics?
Well, they didn't go away but the domesticated European housecat eats their primary vector ~ ground squirrels ~ like crazy! The last big die off in was about 1648 in Virginia and Acadia. After that it just didn't happen again on the East Coast.
De Soto claimed to have seen very large indian populations when he explored the Mississippi river around 1540. Those large populations were all gone when the next europeans arrived in the area years later.
There are some other stones in the area. All of them are on standard meridians or lines of latitude ~ by the mid 1700s Oklahoma had numerous well surveyed Spanish towns ~ abandoned at some point ~ haven't figured that part out ~ but the Indians who moved in from Montana retained the surveys, so they knew something. Take a good look at Helena MT ~ it's laid out according to the Spanish Law of the Indies that governed new town layouts. That area was occupied by nothing but Indians for all anybody knows. Check out the Comanche Indians for some interesting stuff ~ more like Europeans than Indians ~ related to all the other major tribes in OK before we shipped in Indians from the Eastern USA
Yes, I agree there were more than just a few Vikings/Europeans pre-1492. Just from the evidence we know that there had to be a number of Vikes/Euros throughout N America
Considering that the Vikes went to areas that still today are relatively un-populated and isolated...we probably have a lot more to discover.
And, it is not easy to get to L’Anse aux Meadows today...even with internal combustion engines
:-)
To the Indians the main course of the river turned right at what we call the Ohio ~ that's because 90% of the water flow into the lower Mississippi watercourse is provided by the Ohio at that point.
De Soto managed to reach Green River Island at Evansville, and crossed first to that island, created a defense, then crossed to meet the indians at Angel Mounds, then went on over to Vincinnes and Terre Haute and sent a small party north to Lake Michigan to verify the existence of a large lake.
The older analysis that forgot about the name changes had De Soto crossing into Arkansas ~ and one does wonder how he got his horses over there ~ and why he wasn't also caught and eaten by the Cahokia indians much sooner. There's a ford at Leaven's Worth on the Ohio ~ my ancestors crossed the Ohio from the North shore to the South shore at this well known ford. They then settled along the Green River, and claimed Green River Island. No doubt they had a copy of De Soto's travel diary!
You are not the only one that thinks this... Read “1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus” by Charles Mann. Good overview of the state of this sort of thought in the mid-2000s.
Maybe you meant Chinese, then Vikings, then Spanish....?
With “bow and arrow”, do you mean the crossbow...or longbow? 9thC is a little early for longbow, I believe
Canada Ping!
The Spanish hired the most advanced surveyors on the planet to do a grand basic survey of North America ~ besides, they knew it got cold out there ~ so they hired people who could survive it.
All the various markers in the midwest that have runic writing are where they ought to be for survey benchmarks, and the one at Heavener OK, in fact, says it's a benchmark or boundary stone. The one at Kensington refers to the then King of Spain to give us a date when it was set.
From about 1555 through 1609 North America East of the MIssissippi was in the grip of a 70 year period of substantially reduced rainfall, and Virginia actually suffered 17 full years of ZERO rainfall within that period.
It was pretty obvious to the Spanish that the Mid Atlantic was a horrid wasteland so they didn't do much around here.
However they moved up the Mississippi and began mining operations ~ we all know about those ~ but they also laid out towns/villages ~ and brought cattle, horses, chickens, ducks, and a number of pig varieties that can be typed to various regional domestications that took place in Europe and the Middle East over the last 15000 years.
They even created a map (which I haven't found yet) that shows the location of every single bench mark they put in place. They identified the benchmarks with a special name. All the gazeteers show where those marks are.
The Spanish, like the Chinese before them, readily found the main course of the MIssissippi through the delta country ~ so anything you hear about the French discovering that route is a misconstruction of what was actually said. The Spanish knew where it was but wouldn't tell the French, so the French found it on their own opening up the secret to others.
The Shawnee indians owned the falls on the OHio (Where lOuisville is) This forced the Spanish to cut up the Wabsh to the White rivers to detour around the falls. There's a 2 mile portage that takes you to the Miami river, and that gets you back into the ohio about Cincy. From there up to Columbus OHio there was a navigable stream that ends just West of the the OLd Stone Fort ~ which looks pretty Spanish to my untrained eye (but, of course, I found duplicates by looking for Spanish structures from the 1500-1700 period).
Just darn, those guys were here first ~ and they hired Viking descendants ~ none of which is a surprise.
The Vikings didn't have their design for their north atlantic capable boats until after they'd made permanent contact with the Sa'ami ~ who came up with a working design.
So, who brought the bow and arrow at 800 AD, and who sailed here in a boat that wasn't invented for another 150 years?
IIRC their settlement in Canada was called Vinland.
pre-raid warmup party
I absolutely agree. The Europeans seem to have discovered a continent that was already in decline, in the equivalent of their Dark Ages: I see Iroquois, Cherokee, and the Shawnee like the Vandals and Goths, tough societies retaining some memory of a civilization they may well have helped bring down. Cahokia like a fallen Rome to the whole Mississippian Complex: the center of a huge far-flung commercial and ceremonial network. DeSoto and some of the earliest explorers of the Natchez etc in the Southeast give us the last glimpse of a dying civilization.
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