Posted on 04/01/2014 8:59:38 AM PDT by ColdOne
Michael Moore should be killed then, since he’s one of the folks who supported the takeover of GM by the Feds.
I've been thinking about what you wrote. I assume it's correct, as I would not have any of the knowledge it would take to refute it.
I don't think that excuses them at all. Upon buying that car, people should be told "no bulky keychains". The airbag not working when the car is still moving is not a good situation. I always thought it released on any impact, and it should. People should be informed "what to do if the ignition shuts down" as part of of the walk-through of a new car.
One thing I insist on which isn't part of the sales routine is besides a test drive to have a passenger drive, when I'm the passenger while the salesperson describes what one should be aware of when driving the car. It's an idea that's served me well.
Yes, GM has a responsibility. Even if (as you say) these accidents are usually avoidable, information needs to go to the consumer so the driver knows how to avoid them.
Actually, as early as 2005 or 2006, GM notified owners that they should not have bulky, heavy weight items on their key-chains.
And, in my driver’s ed class, we were taught what to do if you lose power in your vehicle while driving. I figured that everyone had such training.
Of course, additional information and training never hurt anyone, but I am saying that yes, GM has SOME responsibility, but I don’t think they own 100% of the responsibility.
What is the “required” weight capacity of an ignition switch? I mean, if a driver wants to hang a 5 pound weight from it, should GM be required to meet that standard?
If that had been specified, would it have avoided this situation? If that's the case, it's amazing nobody did that.
There is no set requirement, because who the hell knows what some idiot may hang on their key-chain! All the while, it has to be loose enough that a 90+year old weakling can turn it with ease and start the car.
Exactly how do you figure that “standard?”
The person who wants to hang pictures, keyfobs, mementos, store passes, etc... is going to need a switch that will handle 25 pounds of resistance.
The 90+ year old weakling needs it to have no more than a 2-5 pound resistance.
IIRC, he got his start attacking GM...Now he’s come full circle.
Moore thinks Obama should be the prosecutor instead of the defendant. What a hypocrite!
>>I am sorry, but this is not JUST caused by a faulty ignition switch.
Read my lips- GM knew there was a fault causing deaths, accepted the risk as “collateral damage” and stonewalled any concerns over a switch that was poorly designed to SAVE MONEY. Simply not acceptable behavior by any CEO or Dept. head. This is moral turpitude and qualifies for social censure and punishment.
Why conservatives give the libs free reign on these issues is utterly beyond me. Malfeasance is malfeasance. Our head in the sand lets them kick us in the butt every time.
No this is a real problem in modern cars. All manuals say to hold down the brake pedal during emergency stop. When the ignition switch in these cars rotated to off position, these vehicles also lost ABS. So all of the touted safety features of the car were disabled all at once. The power going out also disables the airbag.
Neither ABS nor Airbag would be disabled if the ignition switch had remained in ON position, even if the motor was no longer operative, such as running out of gas.
Also, it is not clear what size keychain could trigger the issue. In supposed violent accidents, even minor keychains could trigger the issue.
Unless the GM User Manual covered the ignition key problem, they should be screwed, blued, and tattooed over this, period.
Have a lot disgust with both of them. Liberals, eat your own.
Easy to do if the ignition switch had worked properly. My previous GM cars (I own none now, and never will own another, commie bastards that they are...) all had to have a deliberate press motion to turn off the ignition. It was much less than my current Honda Civic Si and Nissan Titan 4x4, but none the less, it was required (the Japanese value tactile feel).
This switch malfunctioned when enough off angle force was supplied to override the push-to-unlock feature, then when the inevitable accident occurred, the pendulum effect of a decelerating car would allow the weight of the keychain to act like a pendulum, turning off the ignition just at the time you need the safety equipment most!
There is a upper limit to key chain weight, but it should not be determined as the weight of a theoretically heavy keychain. As a matter of fact, I’d set that limit somewhere above the weight of a 8 year old child, since that is one of the situations the feature is meant to curtail occurring, since taking out of on also locks the steering wheel.
GM was negligent and they need to pay up.
Read my lips, the ignition switch did NOT "cause" a single death! Even the NHTSA has said that these are related, but have NOT listed the switch as the cause of the DEATH! (etc.)
=====
Read my mind. You are talking lawyer talk, sophistry, spinning up input as an apologist for Big Car. Manufacturers with a 19th century monopolist mentality cut every ding dong corner they can. Why the sam hell you think we have a market for foreign cars in this country, eh? Quality issues? Nah. The consumer must have been hypnotized by an evil wizard.
Maybe GM should learn to add lawsuits to their manufacturing costs. The spring in the switch was weak and they knew it and they tried to sneak in a replacement without retrofitting cars with the weak spring. That's malfeasance. Fight the battles you can win.
OEM spring vs. replacement spring - http://tinyurl.com
From http://tinyurl.com/kl9u84x
"During depositions for their suit last year, the Meltons learned from GM engineers that the company had been aware of potential problems with its ignition systems before Brooke purchased her car in 2005. The Meltons’ lawyers also found evidence that GM had altered the design of ignition switches after Brooke purchased her Cobalt, but had done so without notifying federal regulators or car owners or changing the part number. The change, which apparently occurred in 2006, increased the size of the detent plunger and spring, a pair of parts that hold the ignition key in position – a change that an engineer hired by the lawyers said seemed intended to increase the “torque force” holding the key in place."
mal·fea·sance noun \ˌmal-ˈfē-zən(t)s\
law : illegal or dishonest activity especially by a public official or a corporation
Once again, you want GM to be held 100% to account for something that the OWNER did; something which the owners were told NOT to do!
I do investigations. Very seldom is there ever a single CAUSE for an incident. It usually has several mitigating circumstances. In this case, the cause of the problem is a less than perfect ignition switch, being used by stupid users who ignore the manufacturer!
I am NOT taking up for GM, I think they own some of the fault in this, but we conservatives always talk about personal responsibility. Well, these owners were told about the problem and what caused it and they continued to do stuff that violated the warnings.
As I stated in my last post, if GM develops a new spring that holds the brake better than the last model, does this mean that GM is conducting malfeasance by not replacing the same spring in all their past models? The answer is obviously NO! They found a problem, told people how to avoid the problem and now people like you want to crucify them because they didn’t rush out and make their vehicle idiot proof! Guess what, NO CAR is idiot proof!
I have owned vehicles that had recalls, everyone of those recalls were based on problems that either existed or came into being without any action on the part of the operator of the vehicle. THIS recall is based on a less than perfect ignition switch being used by someone who refuses to follow the manufacturers warnings/instructions. PERIOD!
>>NO CAR is idiot proof!
No argument there. I didn’t read where GM had instructed owners about the problem. Can it be demonstrated that the victims received the instruction?
My standpoint is the too common perception that corporate (and any bureaucratic) thought processes, when faced with blame, first and foremost deny, stonewall, and evade rather than join with the investigator to get to the truth no matter what. I’m sure you run into this, just like you run into scammers trying to take who ever has deep pockets to the cleaners.
My original point was that, if Mother Theresa had broken the story rather than Roger Moore, commenters on FR might have been less dismissive of the problem under discussion. Moore may be a repugnant trotskyite peckerwood, but his personal qualities absolutely need to be separated from the facts that he or any other investigative journalist or documentarist come up with. Have a good one.
Ex CA corpsman who served with the USMC
I don’t like Moore, but my complaint isn’t with the source.
I just think most people are jumping to a conclusion without knowing the whole picture in that this “problem” requires action by the car operator; it isn’t just jumping out of position.
Good night! Thanks, I enjoyed our conversation.
What’s his FR nick? Thanks ColdOne.
Michael Moore: GM’s Bankruptcy Fills Me With Joy [2009]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2262662/posts
When do super rich, mentally ill, follywood liberals like Moore stop lying about their wealth, capitalism, the economy, guns, GW Bush, Ronald Reagan, white males, Christians, Vets?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3185093/posts
How anti-capitalist Michael Moore built a £30m fortune
Telegraph UK ^ | July 25, 2014 | Kate Palmer
Posted on 7/25/2014 3:01:02 PM by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
Don’t be hoodwinked by his casual demeanour and capitalism rants – Michael Moore’s millions make him one of the richest men in American media.
Film-maker Moore, 60, made his name for anti-establishment politics with Capitalism: A Love Story (2009) and Fahrenheit 9/11 (2004) – accruing a multi-million dollar fortune in the process.
Moore’s impressive property portfolio was laid bare during divorce proceedings from his wife of 22 years, Kathleen Glynn.
The political controversialist finalised his split from 58-year-old Glynn on Tuesday in a US court in northern Michigan, where the couple owns a £1.2m lakeside home.
The 10,000 square-foot luxury pad is one of nine properties belonging to the couple, who wed in Flint, Michigan, in 1991.
Moore shares his time between his home state and New York City, where he owns a Manhattan apartment.
The couple did not disclose how their fortune would be divided, with Moore commenting on his Facebook page: “Kathleen and Michael have mutually and amicably reached a divorce settlement.”
In an ironic postscript, Moore added a clip of Bruce Springsteen’s Rosalita (Come Out Tonight) to the update. The divorce proceedings had been ongoing since June last year.
Maybe they could use MM’s fat to keep the ovens going.
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