Rift Emerges Among Gun Owners Over Concealing Weapons in Schools

NYImes ^ | 05 nov 2015 | Mitch Smith

[rellimpank]

CLIO, Mich. When Kenneth Herman visits his daughter’s school, the handgun holstered to his right hip is visible to anyone. And that has caused him problems.

School officials have denied Mr. Herman access to school buildings, asked him to wait in the principal’s office and called the Sheriff’s Department on him. So Mr. Herman, a paramedic who grew up in this semirural community 85 miles northwest of Detroit, sued Clio Area Schools for the right to carry his weapon openly on school grounds, and in August he won the case. The district has appealed.

Now his dispute with the school district has become part of a statewide debate over guns in schools that has exposed a rare split among firearm owners. It pits proponents of widespread open carry like Mr. Herman against other gun owners who believe concealed weapons are more appropriate in some settings.

[roadcat]

Carrying guns on school property is illegal in most states.

Perhaps in public schools. Near where I live (south of San Francisco) there is a private school where plainclothes guards blend in with teachers, carrying concealed guns. Not outlawed in California (as of now).

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

I'm as staunch a 2nd amendment supporter as you'll find anywhere. I own a sizable dollar amount of hardware and associated accessories.

But I can't see the logic or the need to open carry. Opsec is a real concern and I don't want anyone to know I'm carrying, until it is time to deploy...or after TSHTF.

[bunkerhill7]

This is the way it was in real America:

SCHOOLS ARE GUN ZONES
In 1800:
“Children of the present day would be somewhat startled to go to school attended by large dogs, to keep off the bears and other wild animals, to study all day by the crackle of the great fire and back logs, to hear the howling of wolves at rollcall, and see the teacher take from its resting place over the door, a trusty rifle to guard the way home. Such were the first schools in 1800.”
‘Periwinkle’, “The Sentinel”, Feb 21, 1874 [”Ticonderoga Sentinel”, Ticonderoga, NY]

[Bryanw92]

>>But I can’t see the logic or the need to open carry. Opsec is a real concern and I don’t want anyone to know I’m carrying, until it is time to deploy.

I’m not itching to “deploy” and shoot someone. It’s all about deterrence. I want my message to be: “Go find an easier target, like some SJW who thinks that guns are bad and feral youths are just misunderstood.”

If the next victim chooses to be unarmed, that’s his business.

[RKBA Democrat]

What rift?

Agitprop.

[RKBA Democrat]

What rift?

Agitprop.

[Myrddin]

I keep trying IWB style holsters, but I'm just too skinny to do it. An OWB with a long jacket solves the problem. The compression shirts with a pocket under the arm might work as well. Open carry is fine when I'm hiking. I don't do it in local businesses although most of them don't care. It's the occasionally prissy hoplophobe customer that is the principal problem.

[MeshugeMikey]

Screwy and pointless but that’s the way it is.

“the form of thought formerly referred to as common sense is today a relatively rare commodity”

[Osage Orange]

Cops open carry all the time.....

What's the percentage of cops getting their weapons taken, I wonder?

[Yo-Yo]

To put this into a little context: The Michigan pistol free zone law states that it is illegal to possess a firearm on the premises of schools, banking institutions, taverns, churches, sports arenas, or college dormitories or classrooms, but those prohibitions do not apply to Concealed Pistol License holders.

The Michigan CPL Law says that a license holder cannot carry concealed in the listed pistol free zones. So between the two laws, CPL holders are legally permitted to open carry in schools, taverns, sports arenas, etc., but cannot carry concealed in those same areas.

The judge in this case had no choice but to rule that the dad has a right to open carry on school grounds, because the law says as a CPL holder he can openly carry, and schools do not have an 'opt out' clause (but private property holders do.)

There was a move to allow concealed carry at all pistol free zones for holders of an 'advanced' CPL license, but it was vetoed by Governor Snyder because there was not an 'opt out' clause for schools.

[RKBA Democrat]

I OC regularly. This is agitprop. There is no great disagreement within gun rights groups other than perhaps the type that go on over a watercooler.

That said, in my view CC is the best tactical choice, OC the best strategic choice. Both have their place.

[Lurker]

Nice try, noob.

L

[Osage Orange]

So....you are good with LEO's and "teachers" carrying....but not other citizens...because it's "disruptive"....

Well...okay.

[WayneS]

True enough.

[WayneS]

I your experience, how disruptive is a holstered firearm when it is carried in to a school by a law abiding citizen?

[WayneS]

Apparently it’s reasonably high in Venezuela.

http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines-2015/gun-control-venezuelas-police-are-being-killed-for-their-guns-video

[cripplecreek]

I think the combination of open and concealed is the best possible option. Open carry reminds the idiots that there may be concealed carriers present.

Personally I’d get rid of the concealed carry permit altogether and let people carry as they choose.

[cripplecreek]

Its only disruptive because school officials go into a panic and create a disruption.

[WayneS]

I think the best tactic is to open carry a fake gun while carrying a real one concealed...

;-)

[WayneS]

Exactly.