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Study: New World Map Is a Forgery
AP ^ | 7-29-02 | DIANE SCARPONI

Posted on 07/29/2002 4:41:39 PM PDT by Pharmboy

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) - Yale University's parchment map of the Vikings' travels to the New World, purportedly drawn by a 15th century scribe, is a clever 20th century forgery, according to a new study.


The Vinland Map
AP Photo

The study is the latest development in a debate that began in the 1960s when the map was given to the university by benefactor Paul Mellon.

Scholars who believe it is real have said it predates Christopher Columbus and proves he was not the first European to reach America.

But researchers at University College in London who analyzed the ink have concluded the map was produced after 1923.

"The results demonstrate the great importance of modern analytical techniques in the study of items in our cultural heritage," said Robin J.H. Clark, a University College professor who did the analysis.

Another map expert, however, said Clark's study does not prove the map is a fake.

"Nothing so far has changed my opinion that the map is consistent with other documents of the same age we had analyzed," said Thomas Cahill, a professor of atmospheric science and physics at the University of California at Davis.

The research by Clark and a colleague, Katherine Brown, is published in the July 31 issue of Analytical Chemistry, the journal of the American Chemical Society.

The map depicts the world, and includes the north Atlantic coast of North America. It includes text written in medieval Latin and a legend that describes how Leif Eiriksson, a Norseman, found the new land around the year 1000.

Other experts have dated the map to around 1440 — 50 years before Columbus sailed to the New World.

The map was sold by a dealer in rare Spanish books to a Connecticut dealer in the 1950s, who then sold it to Mellon. The original dealer never revealed his source. Now valued at more than $20 million, the map is housed at Yale's Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library.

Yale has not taken a position on whether the map is authentic, said the university's head librarian, Alice Prochaska.

"I think probably research will reveal one day what the truth is, but it is certainly very much under discussion and debate," Prochaska said Monday.

In the 1970s, Yale hired the late Chicago chemist Walter McCrone Jr. to do a microscopic analysis of the map. He focused on the map's ink — a black layer that is flaking off over a yellowish layer that adheres firmly to the parchment.

McCrone found round, uniform crystals of anatase in ink. Anatase, a form of titanium dioxide, has been used to produce inks since the 1920s.

Anatase is found in nature, but in small amounts that would be found in jagged, irregular crystals if a medieval scribe had used it to make the Vinland Map's inks, he said. Based on this conclusion, McCrone pronounced the map a fake.

In a 1995 book, however, Cahill and a colleague debunked McCrone's conclusions.

Among other conclusions, they found that most of the crystals McCrone found were not anatase, and that a third of the ink contained no titanium.

Clark's study, using a Raman microscope, found that anatase was detected solely in the yellowish ink lines, and not elsewhere on the parchment. The Raman microscope uses a laser beam that scatters off molecules as radiation with different colors.

Yellow lines are sometimes left behind when medieval ink, made of iron gallotannate, degrades. Clark said a forger would know about the yellow residue and would try to reproduce it.

But, the black ink on top of the yellow ink was found to be carbon-based, not iron gallotannate, so no yellow residue should be present, Clark said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: america; archaeology; columbus; forgery; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; vikings; vinland
I think that settles it...but the Vikes were indeed in North America before the Genoese guy.
1 posted on 07/29/2002 4:41:39 PM PDT by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy
I think that settles it...but the Vikes were indeed in North America before the Genoese guy.

There's been intermittant contact between the old and new world for at least 4000 years. With the ocean currents and trade winds being the way they are, it's inevitable.

2 posted on 07/29/2002 4:47:31 PM PDT by #3Fan
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To: Pharmboy
Yep. Time for historians to turn over a new Leif. parsy.
3 posted on 07/29/2002 4:48:10 PM PDT by parsifal
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Anybody wanna buy a bridge?
4 posted on 07/29/2002 4:52:25 PM PDT by fineright
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To: Pharmboy
Another reason why the Minnesota Vikings will never win the Super Bowl. Cheaters never prosper.
5 posted on 07/29/2002 4:54:58 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: crystalk
Ping.
6 posted on 07/29/2002 5:12:07 PM PDT by Free Trapper
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To: Pharmboy
quick, somebody call NBC and get Dan Rather to declare a National Viking Holiday
7 posted on 07/29/2002 5:22:34 PM PDT by ramdalesh
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To: Pharmboy
Yep.

"In one thousand,oh, and two,
Thorvald sailed the ocean blue."
8 posted on 07/29/2002 5:25:37 PM PDT by lizma
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To: #3Fan
Didn't they find a sunken Roman ship in the Gulf of Mexico?

a.cricket

9 posted on 07/29/2002 5:29:52 PM PDT by another cricket
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To: lizma; Uff Da
LOL!

In one thousand oh, and three
Erik sailed the deep blue sea.
10 posted on 07/29/2002 5:30:41 PM PDT by vikingchick
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To: vikingchick
Nah...............

Five hundred years before our Lord;
a Phoenecian dude had graced our shores...........

11 posted on 07/29/2002 5:42:43 PM PDT by Thumper1960
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To: Dog Gone
That and Randy Moss.
12 posted on 07/29/2002 6:19:32 PM PDT by Sawdring
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To: Pharmboy; #3Fan
There is much more evidence concerning the Vikes coming here than just this map..

Did the Vikings Stay? Vatican Files May Offer Clues

The Kensington Runestone; verified as proof of Scandinavians in Minnesota in 1362

Apparently the Egyptians made their way here well before the Vikes.

Lost City of the Dead in the Grand Canyon

13 posted on 07/29/2002 6:24:02 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: Pharmboy
A number of other maps in the Old World show MOL the same knowledge to have existed, as do verbal documents that describe these lands and continents in the same way. Even Plato gives a description, as does Josephus.

The oldest human remains undisputedly found in North America are just under 20000 years old, 19500 +/- 300 years old. These are found in three places I know of, all on the Eastern coast, and all show that the persons involved came from Europe, probably Iberia or maybe France, and had the Solutrean culture complex, and were thus of Caucasian race if the Solutreans were-- and I have never heard that disputed.

It is not as though either Viking or human history generally, is affected by the final verdict on this map. I do not believe that a chemical analysis of ink traces can resolve this, and the other factors outweigh that and suggest its genuineness IMHO.

But even if a fake, we know that others from the 1000-1400 era were in existence in Europe which were like it and were genuine. So big deal, all in all.

14 posted on 07/29/2002 6:34:01 PM PDT by crystalk
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To: Pharmboy
Who Really Discovered America?
15 posted on 07/29/2002 7:35:16 PM PDT by blam
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To: crystalk
"The oldest human remains undisputedly found in North America are just under 20000 years old, 19500 +/- 300 years old. These are found in three places I know of, all on the Eastern coast, and all show that the persons involved came from Europe, probably Iberia or maybe France, and had the Solutrean culture complex, and were thus of Caucasian race if the Solutreans were-- and I have never heard that disputed.

Now you have. Those (Cactus Hill, Topper and another) are indeed old sites and are possibly in the 20k year old range and they do have Solutrean technolgy but, there are no human remains. The oldest dated skeleton ever found in the Americas is named Luzia, an African looking woman who died at age 24, 11,500 years ago in Brazil. (There has recently been a skeleton, Kennewick Man like, found off the coast of California, on an island, that is expected to surpass the 11,500 year old Luzia skeleton)

16 posted on 07/29/2002 7:46:57 PM PDT by blam
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To: Sawdring
That and Randy Moss.

If ya don't want him, hand him to us.

17 posted on 07/29/2002 7:50:40 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: crystalk

Luzia (11,500 years old)

18 posted on 07/29/2002 7:51:44 PM PDT by blam
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To: Pharmboy

A MUST READ!

Two press releases released today...
:)

Public release date: 29-Jul-2002
[ Print This Article | Close This Window ]

Contact: Elizabeth Tait
taite@publicaffairs.si.edu
202-357-2627 129
Smithsonian Institution

Scientists determine age of first New World map
Parchment points to authenticity of Vinland Map

For the first time, scientists have ascribed a date – 1434 A.D., plus or minus 11 years – to the parchment of the controversial Vinland Map, possibly the first map of the North American continent. Collaborators from the Smithsonian Center for Materials Research and Education (SCMRE), Suitland, Md., the University of Arizona, Tucson, and the U.S. Department of Energy's Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, N.Y., used carbon-dating techniques to analyze the parchment on which the map is drawn. Their findings, published in the August edition of the journal Radiocarbon, place the parchment of the map 60 years ahead of Christopher Columbus' arrival in the West Indies, and provide compelling evidence that the map is authentic.

"Many scholars have agreed that if the Vinland Map is authentic, it is the first cartographic representation of North America, and its date would be key in establishing the history of European knowledge of the lands bordering the western Atlantic Ocean," said Jacqueline S. Olin, assistant director for archaeometric research at SCMRE when the study began in 1995. Olin and co-authors Douglas Donahue, a physicist at the University of Arizona and Garman Harbottle, a chemist at Brookhaven National Laboratory, along with SCMRE paper conservator Dianne Van Der Reyden, sampled the bottom right edge of the parchment for analysis. The dating was carried out at the National Science Foundation-University of Arizona Accelerator Mass Spectrometer in Tucson. The unusually high precision of the date was possible because the Vinland Map's date fell in a very favorable region of the carbon-14 dating calibration curve.

The parchment analysis again indicates the map's connection with the Catholic Church's Council of Basel, convened between 1431 and 1449, first posited by R.A. Skelton, T.E. Marston and G.D. Painter, the scholars who undertook a six-year investigation of the Vinland Map and accompanying "Tartar Relation," and made their argument for the map's authenticity in the book, The Vinland Map and the Tartar Relation, published in 1965 by Yale University Press. Paul A. Mellon had purchased the map and manuscript for $1 million in 1958, and requested the study after donating them to Yale.

The map came to light in Europe in the mid-1950s without any record of previous ownership or provenance in any library or collection. It is now in the collection of Yale's Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library in New Haven, Conn. The name "Vinland" derives from text on the map that recounts Bjarni and Leif Eriksson discovering "a new land, extremely fertile and even having vines, … which island they named Vinland." The "Island of Vinland" appears on the map in the northwest Atlantic Ocean. Scholars postulate it may represent present-day Labrador, Newfoundland or Baffin Island. The map also shows Europe, Africa and Asia.

Several previous studies challenging the map's authenticity focused on the chemical composition of the ink used to draw it, and pointed to the presence of anatase, which was not produced commercially until the 20th century. But there are questions about how an ink containing anatase could have been formulated and used by a forger. More recently, the ink has been shown to contain carbon, which also has been presented as evidence of a forgery. However, carbon can be present in a medieval ink.

"Anatase may be a result of the chemical deterioration of the ink over the centuries, or may even have been present naturally in the ink used in medieval times," Olin said, adding, "The elemental composition of the ink is consistent with a medieval iron gall ink, based on historical evidence regarding ink production."

Present carbon-dating technology does not permit the analysis of samples as small as the actual ink lines on the map.

Concluded Olin, "While the date result itself cannot prove that the map is authentic, it is an important piece of new evidence that must be considered by those who argue that the map is a forgery and without cartographic merit."

###
The article is available online at www.radiocarbon.org.

The Smithsonian Center for Materials Research and Education advises and assists the Smithsonian and other museums in the study, preservation and conservation of artistic and historic objects. Its staff conducts research in the areas of material technology, chemistry, art and cultural history, as well as in the development of treatment procedures. The Center also offers educational programs about the properties and preservation of collections to museums and associated professionals around the world.

Note to editors: Brookhaven National Laboratory and the University of Arizona are issuing concurrent releases.

===========================================================================

Public release date: 29-Jul-2002
[ Print This Article | Close This Window ]

Contact: Beverly Hassell
b_hassell@acs.org
202-872-4065
American Chemical Society

The Vinland Map shows its true colors; scientists say it's a confirmed forgery

For the first time in the controversial saga of the famous Vinland Map, scientists say they have shown with certainty that the supposed relic is actually a 20th-century forgery. The findings are reported in the July 31 print issue of Analytical Chemistry, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Chemical Society, the world's largest scientific society.
The Vinland Map -- a drawing that suggests Norse explorers charted North America long before Columbus -- has given scientists and historians a fertile platform for debate throughout its contentious history. Several studies have questioned its authenticity, but disagreement about techniques and interpretations has left some adherents to the map's 15th-century origins unconvinced.

While other evidence has already established the pre-Columbian presence of the Vikings in North America, the map still serves as an important piece of history and has been valued by some at more than $20 million. It resides at the Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library of Yale University.

"The Vinland Map is arguably one of the most important maps in the world," said Robin Clark, D.Sc., Sir William Ramsay Professor of Chemistry at University College London. Clark and Katherine Brown, a doctoral candidate, used Raman microprobe spectroscopy to identify the chemical components in the inks on the Vinland Map.

In this technique, a laser beam is directed at an object; a small portion of the light scatters off the molecules as radiation with different colors. Every material has a unique scattering spectrum that acts as a fingerprint, allowing scientists to identify it.

The ink is made up of two parts: a yellowish line that adheres strongly to the parchment overlaid with a black line that appears to have flaked off.

The yellow line contains anatase -- the least common form of titanium dioxide found in nature. Some scientists have concluded that the map must be of 20th-century origin because anatase could not be synthesized until around 1923. Others have suggested that anatase could have been formed during the medieval production of iron-based inks.

The current study is the first to establish precisely where the anatase is located on the map. The Raman technique allowed the researchers to examine the entire map in place, as opposed to other methods that drew individual samples from the map. "Anatase was detected solely in the ink lines and not elsewhere on the parchment, so [it] must be an integral part of the yellow line," the authors assert in their paper.

Prior to the development of the printing press, manuscripts were generally written in either carbon-based inks or iron gallotannate inks. Erosion of the latter makes the parchment brittle and often leads to brown or yellow staining. "Knowing that such yellowing is a common feature of medieval manuscripts, a clever forger may seek to simulate this degradation by the inclusion of a yellow line in his rendering of the map," the researchers suggested.

The study shows, however, that the black ink is made from carbon, not iron gallotannate, which makes the natural occurrence of yellowing impossible. Also, the map has not grown brittle over the years, as would be expected with an iron gallotannate ink.

"The Raman results provide the first definitive proof that the map itself was drawn after 1923," Clark said. "The results demonstrate the great importance of modern analytical techniques in the study of items in our cultural heritage."

###

— Jason Gorss

19 posted on 07/29/2002 10:06:38 PM PDT by mfulstone
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To: blam
Again a failure to carefully read my statement. What I said was that I had never heard it disputed THAT THE SOLUTREANS WERE CAUCASIAN. After all, they did live in Europe!

If we therefore find them in the USA, one might make the assumption they remained of the same race despite the ocean voyage, BUT I DID NOT SAY THAT.

Furthermore, I said that the oldest humans in NORTH America were at the three sites...I never mentioned South America in any way, so Luzia is of no relevance here.

Many sites in South America are MUCH older than 20,000 years, some do approach 40,000 years. As you say, those people might be African like Luzia, or who knows what. I was discussing North America.

20 posted on 07/30/2002 12:23:55 AM PDT by crystalk
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To: All
As the post above shows, the Vinland Map at Yale is probably genuine, but even if it were not, and it is a modern copy, WE HAVE TESTIMONY FROM MEDIEVAL SOURCES THAT MAPS THAT SHOW WHAT IT DOES WERE IN EXISTENCE THEN.

Where did they get this old parchment to write the map hoax upon?

The Solutrean technology and artifacts crossed from Europe to the up-to-then uninhabited continent of North America. That definitely took place. If anyone can explain how this continent came to speak English, with no English crossing the Atlantic, then I will listen to arguments that the Solutrean technology and tools crossed the Atlantic without any Solutrean people!

Honestly, the things people will post to me these days!

Sorry, blam, I know you're a good guy. But the flamers have been very vicious on another thread yesterday and today.

21 posted on 07/30/2002 12:31:28 AM PDT by crystalk
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To: another cricket
Didn't they find a sunken Roman ship in the Gulf of Mexico?

I heard it was Phoenician. There was some Roman coins and a Roman statue dug up near the Bay of Guayaquil in Ecuador though.

22 posted on 07/30/2002 2:08:57 AM PDT by #3Fan
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To: FormerLurker
There's also a small mountain in New Mexico with structures and a rock with Hebrew written all over it discovered more than a hundred years ago on blam's link to another thread in his post. The camp is dated at a little before Christ. There was a quirk to the writing that wasn't understood until recently and originates from the Hebrew colonies in Spain.

There's also a cave close to me here in Illinois that had 20,000 articles in it from India dated at 3000 B.C., I think it's 3000 B.C. anyway. Burrows cave. If it was a hoax, would a hoaxer carve ancient writing on 20,000 rocks?! :^)

23 posted on 07/30/2002 2:31:15 AM PDT by #3Fan
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To: crystalk
"The oldest human remains undisputedly found in North America are just under 20000 years old, 19500 +/- 300 years old. "

Okay.

If you just change one word in this statement from remains to artifacts, we do not have a dispute. Widely accepted data supports all your other statements. Albeit, I think the Calico site in California (200,000 years old) will eventually be accepted by the main-stream. (Probably not in our life time though)
George Carter's book, Earlier Than You Think, is a good read on the Calico site.

I expect we'll have accepted dates of 50-60,000 years old (in our life time) in the Monte Verde area in South America.

24 posted on 07/30/2002 4:11:59 AM PDT by blam
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To: #3Fan
Was America A Phoenician Colony
25 posted on 07/30/2002 4:31:02 AM PDT by blam
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To: #3Fan
A Tradition Of Giants
26 posted on 07/30/2002 5:02:30 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Oh I see, it is just that American soil is so unfriendly to human bones, that is why they called it America, which means "the bitter land."

I mean of course, items discoverable which prove human residence beyond any doubt. Not just their own bones.

As to Calico, that is a real bitch, isn't it? It is like somebody a quarter million years ago transported a few homo erectus to California by UFO just to astonish us. Maybe erectus COULD float around the N. Pacific rim, though, who knows? One thing is sure, whoever MHB at Calico left no living descendants in the present.

Of course at Monte Verde, we already have humans proven some 33M years ago. At Pedra Furada, some evidence that Africans, perhaps accidental and without descendants in the present, may have come ashore and lived for some generations....

The reason Monte Verde is so critical is that this is where, and getting close to WHEN, that famous Original Boatload of Asians landed, from whom TAIP the whole Amerindian population of both continents, and also the islands and isthmus between, is descended TAIP.

Lang, who had a direct contact to God I guess, suggested it landed near Copiapo, IIRC.

27 posted on 07/30/2002 7:04:55 AM PDT by crystalk
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To: Pharmboy
Date: Posted 7/30/2002
Science News Daily

Scientists Determine Age Of New World Map; "Vinland Map" Parchment Predates Columbus's Arrival In North America

Scientists from the University of Arizona, the U.S. Department of Energy’s Brookhaven National Laboratory, and the Smithsonian Institution have used carbon-dating technology to determine the age of a controversial parchment that might be the first-ever map of North America. In a paper to be published in the July 2002 issue of the journal Radiocarbon, the scientists conclude that the so-called “Vinland Map” parchment dates to approximately 1434 A.D., or nearly 60 years before Christopher Columbus set foot in the West Indies.
“Many scholars have agreed that if the Vinland Map is authentic, it is the first known cartographic representation of North America, and its date would be key in establishing the history of European knowledge of the lands bordering the western Atlantic Ocean,” said chemist Garman Harbottle, the lead Brookhaven researcher on the project. “If it is, in fact, a forgery, then the forger was surely one of the most skillful criminals ever to pursue that line of work.”

Housed in Yale University’s Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, the map shows Europe (including Scandinavia), Northern Africa, Asia and the Far East, all of which were known by 15th-century travelers. In the northwest Atlantic Ocean, however, it also shows the “Island of Vinland,” which has been taken to represent an unknown part of present-day Labrador, Newfoundland, or Baffin Island. Text on the map reads, in part, “By God's will, after a long voyage from the island of Greenland to the south toward the most distant remaining parts of the western ocean sea, sailing southward amidst the ice, the companions Bjarni and Leif Eiriksson discovered a new land, extremely fertile and even having vines, ... which island they named Vinland.”

The map, drawn in ink and measuring 27.8 x 41.0 centimeters, surfaced in Europe in the mid-1950s, but had no distinct record of prior ownership or provenance in any famous library. The map and the accompanying “Tartar Relation,” a manuscript of undoubted authenticity that was at some point bound with the Vinland Map in book form, were purchased in 1958 for $1 million by Paul A. Mellon, known for his many important gifts to Yale, and, at Mellon's request, subjected to an exhaustive six-year investigation.

In 1965 the Yale University Press published “The Vinland Map and the Tartar Relation,” a detailed study by R.A. Skelton, T. E. Marston and G. D. Painter that firmly argued for the map’s authenticity, connecting it with the Catholic Church’s Council of Basel (A.D. 1431-1449), which was convened a half-century before Columbus’s voyage. Two scientific conferences, in 1966 and 1996, featured strong debates over the map’s authenticity, but no final determination could be made based on the available facts.

Beginning in 1995, Harbottle, along with Douglas J. Donahue, University of Arizona, and Jacqueline S. Olin, Smithsonian Center for Materials Research and Education, undertook a detailed scientific study of the parchment. The scientists traveled to Yale, where they were allowed to trim a 3-inch-long sliver off the bottom edge of the parchment for analysis. Using the National Science Foundation-University of Arizona’s Accelerator Mass Spectrometer, the scientists determined a precision date of 1434 A.D. plus or minus 11 years. The unusually high precision of the date was possible because the parchment’s date fell in a very favorable region of the carbon-14 dating calibration curve. This new analysis of the map parchment reaffirms the association with the Council of Basel since it dates exactly to that time period, and makes a strong case for the map’s authenticity.

Several previous studies challenging the map’s authenticity have focused on the chemical composition of the ink used to draw it. Some initial work found anatase, a particular form of titanium dioxide, in the ink. Since anatase only went into commercial production in the 20th century, some concluded that the ink was also a 20th-century product, making the map a forgery. Recent testing, however, only revealed trace quantities of titanium, whose presence may be a result of contamination, the chemical deterioration of the ink over the centuries, or may even have been present naturally in the ink used in medieval times. Another recent study detected carbon, which has also has been presented as evidence of a forgery. However, carbon can also be found in medieval ink. Current carbon-dating technology does not permit the dating of samples as small as the actual ink lines on the map.

“While the date result itself cannot prove that the map is authentic, it is an important piece of new evidence that must be considered by those who argue that the map is a forgery and without cartographic merit,” said Harbottle.

Editor's Note: The original news release can be found at http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/2002/bnlpr072902a.htm

28 posted on 07/30/2002 7:23:19 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
There IS a map that is considered to be authentic, and is 120 million years old..

Discovery of an Ancient 3D "Relief Map" of the Ural Region. Discovered in China!

29 posted on 07/30/2002 7:34:14 AM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: crystalk
"The reason Monte Verde is so critical is that this is where, and getting close to WHEN, that famous Original Boatload of Asians landed, from whom TAIP the whole Amerindian population of both continents, and also the islands and isthmus between, is descended TAIP."

James C. Chatters (The guy who did all the Kennewick Man Work), states in his book, Ancient Encounters, that prior to 6,000 years ago there are zero skeletons of the people we refer to today as American Indians/Native Americans in North America. Prior to that time, they were all the Kennewick Man type, the Ainu/Joman strain without the 'shovel' teeth (see Christy Turner, ASU) found in today's Native Americans. (BTW, what does TAIP mean?)

30 posted on 07/30/2002 7:34:21 AM PDT by blam
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To: FormerLurker
"There IS a map that is considered to be authentic, and is 120 million years old."

Authentic? Only that it was engraved in/on some very old rock. (When it was engraved has not been answered, IMO)

31 posted on 07/30/2002 7:37:05 AM PDT by blam
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To: Pharmboy
"I think that settles it...but the Vikes were indeed in North America before the Genoese guy."

Map notwithstanding, it's certain that they were in Labrador by the 1200's. Icelandic sagar vividly recount Leif's voyage and subsequent colonization voyages. Remains of Viking settlements have been excavated in Anse aux Meadows in Labrador.

32 posted on 07/30/2002 8:24:39 AM PDT by OBAFGKM
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To: Pharmboy
Vikings? Your kidding me, right? Everyone knows America was discovered by the Uber Yeti, brought here in the escape vessels of the alian sex goddesses.

They later devolved into the Sub-genii who wandered alone and unknowing until the coming of J.R. Bob Dobbs. Bob showed them the way and told them to fight for the slack that the pinkboys had stolen.

It's all right there in scripture.
33 posted on 07/30/2002 8:46:12 AM PDT by Hitlerys uterus
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To: blam

3-D MAP OF THE EARTH CREATED 120 MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO.
ON-LINE PRESS CONFERENCE WITH ALEXANDR CHUVYROV



June 6, at 4:00 p.m (Moscow Time) PRAVDA.Ru will hold an on-line press conference with Doctor of Physical and Mathematical Science Alexandr CHUVYROV. The professor of Bashkir State University found indisputable evidence of the existence of an ancient, highly developed civilization in the Urals. His find is a huge slab, whose age is supposed to be about 120 million years.



"Our research topic is about the possible migration of ancient Chinese to the territory of modern Russia: Siberia and Urals. We have discovered letters on the rocks made in ancient Chinese about 3000 years ago. During our research in the Ufa archives, we discovered notes from the end of 18th century about 200 unusual ancient stone plates. Our idea was that these plates are somehow connected to Chinese migrants.

Thus we were looking for an ancient civilization, but much closer to ourselves. We were expecting to see nothing more than hieroglyphs or pictures with a running mammoth and deer typical for that period. There were six expeditions organized, and in 28 July 1999, at 1.06 meters underground, we found the plate now called “Dashkin kamen” (“kamen” is stone in Russian). It has a significant size: about 1.5 meters in height, more than 1 meter wide, and 16 cm thick. It weights more than 1 ton. In the scientists’ opinion, it is a relief, a 3-D map.

We were absolutely happy; we thought we found a product made more 2000 years ago. The plate itself is artificial. It was produced from a special cement of three layers, and the third layer is a white-colored porcelain. It should be noticed that the relief on this plate was not cut manually with some ancient stonecutter. It is evident that some mechanical work was done.

There is a region from Ufa up to the town of Salavat represented on the plate. Ufa's hills are very familiar from one side. From the other side there are some changes. Firstly, we were surprised by the Ufa canyon: the break in the earth’s crust from the present Ufa to the present Sterlitomak city. There was a river in it 2-3 kilometers deep and 3-4 kilometers wide. Nevertheless, this break is one of the principal points of our theory. We conducted geological research and found it’s track in the place where it should be theoretically. Tectonic plates from the East crushed it for about 10-15 kilometers to the West. We assume that, now, the Urshak River is in the place of this former canyon.

There are not only rivers, but two systems of channels up to 500 meters wide and a total length of 12,000 kilometers. The whole hydro system includes 12 dams 300-500 meters wide, 10 kilometers long, and 2-3 kilometers deep. They made it possible to turn water from any side into any channel. About 1000 trillion cubic meters of soil were moved to create this."

A.N.Chuvyrov
Specially for PRAVDA.Ru
Huang Hong

34 posted on 07/30/2002 9:12:48 AM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: #3Fan
Well said. Sorry I'm late, traffic was murder.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
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35 posted on 08/05/2004 11:05:29 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: SunkenCiv

Thanks, guvna. Blast from the past. :^)


36 posted on 08/06/2004 12:23:48 AM PDT by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: Pharmboy
The Kensington Runestone; verified as proof of Scandinavians in Minnesota in 1362 ^
  Posted by vannrox
On News/Activism ^ 07/22/2002 2:22:42 PM PDT · 34 replies · 39+ views


Ripsaw News ^ | FR post 07-21-02 | By Jim Richardson and Allen Richardson
Subject: The Kensington Runestone; verified as proof of Scandinavians inMinnesota in 1362 <http://www.ripsawnews.com/2001.08.15/co Verified at LastThe Strange and Terrible Storyof the Kensington RunestoneBy Jim Richardson andAllen Richardson The comfortable scientific and scholarly worlds of history, archeology,runology and Scandinavian linguistics have all been rocked by recentdevelopments surrounding a single stone in west centralMinnesota. The Kensington Runestone, thought for over 100 years to be a hoax, nowstands verified as a genuine artifact commemorating the deaths of 10medireview Scandinavians in Minnesota in the year 1362. A recent piece of linguistic scholarship by Dr. Richard Nielsen has hit thescene, which seems to demonstrate conclusively...
 

Maine Coon Cat (Straight Dope Mailbag) ^
  Posted by SunkenCiv
On General/Chat ^ 08/05/2004 11:19:14 PM PDT · 3 replies · 53+ views


Straight Dope Science Advisory Board ^ | 29-Jun-1999 | SDSTAFF Jill
One of the oldest breeds of cats in North America is the Maine Coon Cat, and some say 40% of the originals had extra toes. One article said it evolved as a "snowshoe foot" to help these cats walk in the snow. Cute story, but probably [expletive deleted] ...The breed closest to the Maine Coon Cat is the Norwegian Forest Cat which evolved in the same climate and lends credence to one theory that ancestors of the Coon Cat may have even come to the New World onboard Viking ships. I like that theory best.
 

The Vikings knew more about climate change than today's eco-activists ^
  Posted by LibWhacker
On News/Activism ^ 08/10/2003 11:38:14 PM PDT · 7 replies · 12+ views


The Calgary Herald ^ | 8/10/03 | Dennis T. Avery
The Medieval Warming and the Little Ice Age are historical realities, widely reported in Viking sagas. Neither can be explained by concentrations of greenhouse gases. Almost unnoticed outside the Washington Beltway, one of the capital's most eminent wise men suddenly has become the most prominent person denying a "scientific consensus" on global warming. James Schlesinger, the United States' first secretary of energy under former U.S. president Jimmy Carter, penned a reflective op-ed in The Washington Post on July 7 that ought to be required reading by the nation's science and environmental reporters who seem to have jumped en masse onto...
 

DNA Study To Settle Ancient Mystery About Mingling Of Inuit, Vikings ^
  Posted by blam
On News/Activism ^ 09/02/2003 11:38:57 AM PDT · 33 replies · 26+ views


Cnews Canada ^ | 9-2-2003 | Bob Weber
DNA study to settle ancient mystery about mingling of Inuit, Vikings By BOB WEBER (CP) - A centuries-old Arctic mystery may be weeks away from resolution as an Icelandic anthropologist prepares to release his findings on the so-called "Blond Eskimos" of the Canadian North. "It's an old story," says Gisli Palsson of the University of Iceland in Reykjavik. "We want to try to throw new light on the history of the Inuit." Stories about Inuit with distinct European features - blue eyes, fair hair, beards - living in the central Arctic have their roots in ancient tales of Norse settlements...
 

Did the Scandinavians beat Columbus to America twice? ^
  Posted by mhking
On News/Activism ^ 10/22/2003 6:39:07 AM PDT · 53 replies · 10+ views


Yahoo! News - AFP ^ | 10.22.03
STOCKHOLM (AFP) - Archeologists have already established that Viking explorers beat Christopher Columbus to America by about 500 years, but experts in Sweden now hope to determine whether another group of Scandinavians landed in the New World in 1362, 130 years before Columbus. A 90-kilo (200-pound) rune stone, a block of stone featuring symbolic engravings common during the Viking era, has been sent from the United States to Sweden's Museum of National Antiquities to establish whether it really dates from 1362, as its markings claim, or is just a hoax. If confirmed as an authentic relic, the so-called Kensington stone...
 

The Viking farm under the sand in Greenland  ^
  Posted by Burkeman1
On News/Activism ^ 03/05/2004 4:06:31 PM PST · 54 replies · 11+ views


Express News ^ | 2004 | Teresa Brasen
The Viking farm under the sand in Greenland By Terese Brasen In 1991, two caribou hunters stumbled over a log on a snowy Greenland riverbank, an unusual event because Greenland is above the tree line. Closer investigation uncovered rock-hard sheep droppings. The hunters had stumbled on a 500-year-old Viking farm that lay hidden beneath the sand, gift-wrapped and preserved by nature for future archaeologists. GÂrden under Sandet or GUS, Danish for 'the farm under the sand,' would become the first major Viking find in Greenland since the 1920s. "GUS is beautifully preserved because, once it was buried, it was frozen,"...
 

Study: New World Map Is a Forgery ^
  Posted by Pharmboy
On News/Activism ^ 07/29/2002 4:41:39 PM PDT · 35 replies · 55+ views


AP ^ | 7-29-02 | DIANE SCARPONI
NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) - Yale University's parchment map of the Vikings' travels to the New World, purportedly drawn by a 15th century scribe, is a clever 20th century forgery, according to a new study. The Vinland Map AP Photo The study is the latest development in a debate that began in the 1960s when the map was given to the university by benefactor Paul Mellon. Scholars who believe it is real have said it predates Christopher Columbus and proves he was not the first European to reach America. But researchers at University College in London who analyzed the ink...
 

Study Says Medieval New World Map Is Real [Thank Leif Eriksson] ^
  Posted by nwrep
On News/Activism ^ 11/26/2003 6:19:59 PM PST · 33 replies · 14+ views


AP ^ | November 27, 2003 | DIANE SCARPONI
NEW HAVEN, Conn. - The latest scientific analysis of a disputed map of the medieval New World supports the theory that it was made 50 years before Christopher Columbus set sail. The study examined the ink used to draw the Vinland Map, which belongs to Yale University. The map is valued at $20 million ó if it is real and not a clever, modern-day forgery. A study last summer said the ink on the parchment map was made in the 20th century. But chemist Jacqueline Olin, a retired researcher with the Smithsonian Institution (news - web sites) in Washington, said...
 

Vindication For Vinland Map: New Study Supports Authenticity ^
  Posted by blam
On News/Activism ^ 11/25/2003 10:05:18 AM PST · 19 replies · 8+ views


Eureka Alert ^ | 11-24-2003 | Michael Bernstein
Public release date: 24-Nov-2003 Contact: Michael Bernstein m_bernstein@acs.org 202-872-6042 American Chemical Society Vindication for Vinland map: New study supports authenticity Recent conclusions that the storied Vinland Map is merely a clever forgery are based on a flawed understanding of the evidence, according to a scientist at the Smithsonian Institution. Results from last year's study debunking the map's authenticity can also be construed to boost the validity of its medieval origins, the scientist claims. The report will appear in the Dec. 1 edition of Analytical Chemistry, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Chemical Society, the world's largest scientific society. The Vinland...
 

Archaeologists find legendary Icelandic home ^
  Posted by SteveH
On News/Activism ^ 09/16/2002 8:27:11 AM PDT · 31 replies · 13+ views


Quad-City Times ^ | 9/15/2002 | Quad-City Times Wire Services
Archaeologists find legendary Icelandic home By Times Wire Services A UCLA team has found the Iceland home of Snorri Thorfinnsson, the first person of European descent born in the New World. Icelandic sagas from the 13th century tell the story of how Snorriís parents led the first Scandinavian group that attempted to settle in Vinland ó on the Canadian coast ó around A.D. 1000. The attempt failed, and the family moved to Iceland, but Snorri was born while they were there. The ìVinland Sagas,î which also tell the story of Leif Ericson, are the earliest recorded history of the Scandinavian...
 

37 posted on 08/06/2004 9:50:32 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

38 posted on 01/24/2006 10:43:16 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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