Since When Does Patriotism Mean Love Of Big Government?

Toogood Reports ^ | September 8, 2002 | Chuck Baldwin

[Ahban]

The only thing keeping 3rd parites from winning is the perception that they can't win.

People are getting more fed up by the hour. It is only a matter of time before the two party duopoly shatters.

http://www.constitutionparty.com

[niki]

There are a lot of third party voters. Remember they gave us Clinton. Instead of moving to the left to capture more votes, maybe the Republicans should try to capture the third party voters and those who don't vote.

Alienating and treating the third party voters like crap and then asking for their vote, seems like a really dumb plan.

[Consort]

"Patriotism seems to have taken on a strange new definition. Love for country has been replaced with love for big government."

If that's the new reality the we have to be a major player in it or we'll cede it to the Socialists like we did with education, and labor, etc. Right Flight keeps giving away the store.

[Consort]

...and Third Parties illustrate the success of political triangulation.

[niki]

It is only a matter of time before the two party duopoly shatters.

Given the left has control of the media and the schools, it may end up being a one party system. We have to break their hold on the schools.

[Consort]

...and any size government under Conservative control is NOTHING like any size government under Liberal control — in terms of respect for the Second Amendment, non-activist judges, respect for religion, pro-life, reasonable taxation, etc., etc., etc.

[1rudeboy]

The leftist Republicans will be on this thread soon, speaking in generalities and attacking all posters who aren't on the big government bandwagon.

No suggestions, no proposals, no alternatives. Just more navel-gazing from those incapable of discerning between Right and Left. There, does that do?

[sweetliberty]

"Until we return the educational system to local control, the dumbing down of the youngsters will continue and so will acceptance of big government."

That is so true. What the children learn is everything, and there is no way we can trust the public schools with them. Sadly, while our hope lies in the children the responsibility lies with the parents. Thank God for all the devoted parents who refuse to allow their children to attend these government indoctrination camps. That number is growing. What concerns me is the growing number of parents, particularly single parents, who see the children as the government's responsibility from the time they are conceived. I suppose a case could be made for that from a certain perspective though. After all, it is government legislation that has strongly contributed to the decay of the family and political correctness is largely a government funded leviathon that has made looking to God for answers and guidance not only unpopular but even illegal in some settings and the idea of a nuclear family passe. It is government that has been so busy promoting the culture of victimization, dependency and lack of accountability, so in large measure they are responsible. People who have grown up with that mentality and especially if they are second generation, cannot really be expected to know any better. So that puts the burden of responsibility on those of us who do know better to change it, and it has to start with education.

The point is though, that a lot of parents are rebelling. Even many poor, single parents are making the necessary sacrifices to provide their children with quality education, be it in private schools or by homeschooling, and thankfully these parents are very vocal and the results are very visible. There is no question that these kids outperform their peers in public schools by large margins. Of course, the more glaring that difference becomes, the more the government schools will rise up to try and put a stop to it, such as what is happening in California right now. Of course they do it in the name of making sure that the children are being educated by qualified individuals, but anybody with any sense knows that what that really means is that the more kids who are pulled out of public schools, the less money they get and we might as well brace ourselves for the fact that they are not going to sit still for that. It has nothing to do with accountability. No government institution is ever going to relinquish its grip on power or money in the name of a higher good. These government bureaucracies have long since forgotten that the people ARE the government, or at least that we're supposed to be.

[niki]

Right Flight keeps giving away the store.

Why is Right Flight happening?

[niki]

No suggestions, no proposals, no alternatives.

And what are yours?

[sinkspur]

There are a lot of third party voters.

Actually, thre aren't. There are a lot of independents who vote for one of the two major parties. The number of Americans affiliated with any third party is less than 1% of the total population.

Multiple party countries, like Italy, are disasters.

[Consort]

Why is Right Flight happening?

Maybe it's a Conservative "run and bitch" mentality. Maybe it's an offshoot of White Flight. Who knows?

[deport]

The only thing keeping 3rd parites from winning is the perception that they can't win.

Maybe it is perception, but a lot of time as in this case perception is reality....... Down the long road maybe it will be different

---

	Name	Electoral Vote	Popular Vote		Party(ies)	Ballot Access (printed / write-in)	Possible Electoral Vote
	David Harold Birchler		8	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	12
	Cathy Gordon Brown		1,606	0.00%	Independent	1 / 0	11
	Mike K. Brown		1	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	10
	Harry Browne		386,035	0.37%	Libertarian, Independent	50 / 0	530
	Pat Buchanan		448,868	0.43%	Reform, Independent, Freedom, "By Petition", Citizens First, Independence, Right-to-Life, "Write-In"	49 / 1	535
	Governor George W. Bush	271	50,456,141	47.87%	Republican, Conservative	51 / 0	538
	Clifford Catton		0	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	33
	May Chote		34	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	25
	Alonzo Crawford		2	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	10
	Earl F. Dodge		208	0.00%	Prohibition	1 / 0	8
	Earnest Lee Easton		6	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 4	32
	Vice President Albert A. "Al" Gore, Jr.	266	50,996,039	48.38%	Democrat, Liberal, Working Families	51 / 0	538
	John Hagelin		83,555	0.08%	Natural Law, Independent, Reform, Independence, "unenrolled", "Write-In"	38 / 3	421
	James E. Harris, Jr.		7,378	0.01%	Socialist Workers, Socialist, Independent, "Write-In"	14 / 3	193
	Keith Sherman Huber		3	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	8
	Keith Russell Judd		15	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	12
	Keith Lewis Kunzler		1	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	5
	Forrest C. LaBelle		1	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 2	15
	Denny Lane		1,044	0.00%	Vermont Grassroots	1 / 0	3
	Bernard Marcus		17	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	10
	Isabell Masters		0	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	10
	Ken C. McCarthy		6	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	25
	David McReynolds		7,746	0.01%	Socialist, Liberty Union, "Write-In"	7 / 7	252
	Rachelle OneFamily Miller		3	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	10
	Beatrice J Mooney		7	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	10
	Monica Moorehead		4,795	0.00%	Workers World	4 / 0	51
	Ralph Nader		2,878,157	2.73%	Green, Independent, United Citizens, "Write-In"	44 / 3	510
	NONE OF THESE CANDIDATES		3,315	0.00%	"unenrolled"	1 / 0	4
	Raj Alison Officewala		3	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	10
	Daniel J. Pearlman		1	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 3	48
	Jeffrey Peters		2	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	10
	Sylvester J. Pettway		1	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 2	18
	Howard Phillips		98,016	0.09%	Constitution, Independent American, American Independent, Independent, American Constitution, Concerned Citizens, United States Taxpayers, "Write-In", "By Petition"	41 / 6	501
	David Reicher		4	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	8
	Joe Schriner		27	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 3	27
	Michael Skos		0	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	33
	L. Neil Smith		5,775	0.01%	Libertarian	1 / 0	8
	Michael F. Sterba		0	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	10
	Gloria Dawn Strickland		12	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 7	83
	Randall Venson		535	0.00%	Independent	1 / 0	11
	James "Jim" Wright		74	0.00%	"Write-In"	0 / 1	32
	Louie G. Youngkeit		161	0.00%	Independent	1 / 0	5
	Write-ins Write-in Votes Write-In Candidates OTHER VOTES Other Write-ins All others Write-Ins Write Ins Scattering scattering Miscellaneous Write-in votes		19,986	0.02%	(scatter)
	Totals	537	105,399,588				538

[niki]

There are a lot of independents

I include independents in the third parties. They will just as easily vote for a Perot or Ventura.

[sweetliberty]

"The leftist Republicans will be on this thread soon, speaking in generalities and attacking all posters who aren't on the big government bandwagon.

You're to cheer while holding your nose or be set upon."

You mean by these people?

Cyber Sisters

Cyber Sisters are an extremely fierce confederation of fighting females who act something like a shrill Greek chorus, echoing and amplifying one another's voice until their foes retreat in disarray. They are generally leaderless, but anyone who challenges one Cyber Sister can expect to be savagely attacked by the others. Only the most powerful and battle-hardened of Warriors is strong enough to weather a Cyber Sisters attack.

OR THESE?

Howlers

Howlers generally populate academic, technical or special interest forums in which particular issues are discussed. Newbies to such forums often wander in thinking they have found some devastating new argument that contradicts accepted wisdom on the forum topic. Of course, if the forum is a long-standing and active discussion group it will probably have heard and debated the argument at length, so instead of reviving a dead topic Howlers will simply shout and throw excrement until the intruder leaves.

[1rudeboy]

One suggestion would be to stop reading articles that are as useful as belly-button lint (to stick with my analogy).

[sinkspur]

I include independents in the third parties. They will just as easily vote for a Perot or Ventura.

To pump up your numbers, I can see why you would.

But, since they have no loyalty to any third party, or any party for that matter, if you're counting on independents to help build your third party movement, you're deluding yourself.