Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Since When Does Patriotism Mean Love Of Big Government?
Toogood Reports ^ | September 8, 2002 | Chuck Baldwin

Posted on 09/08/2002 9:43:06 AM PDT by niki

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-76 last
To: deport
"I also blame a very inept campaign by then President Bush X41 and the GOP"

As I recall he began a vigorous campaign and was in good shape but it suddenly, mysteriously flat-lined. I don't even think it "ramped down". People I know who were on the hill at the time (oldtime Republicans) were baffled.

Long term we found out whose hypothesis was correct. Bush I wasn't ill. Bush II knows very well what his performance entails. It remains for me to speculate whether his accord will require a one term design as well.

Meanwhile government is bigger and I can't think why we didn't know it would be when we voted for an "anointed" or perhaps I should say "dubbed".

61 posted on 09/08/2002 12:05:59 PM PDT by Spirited
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Bill D. Berger
But so few conservatives seem to feel that way.

I think there is a small vocal group who are simply partisans, they are not necessarily interested in the conservative cause. I think the best course with them is to not answer their flame bait which allows them to change the subject. Also, others need to not bait them or call them names. It takes all of us off track.

Forwarding the conservative cause is more important, then getting into flame wars with them. We need to ignore them and work around them.

62 posted on 09/08/2002 12:29:08 PM PDT by niki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: niki
Today, only people who demand increased government protection, increased government handouts, and increased government bureaucracies are considered patriotic.

Where and by whom? Anyone is free to claim any fantasy as reality, one supposes.

63 posted on 09/08/2002 12:33:11 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sweetliberty
Thanks, I look forward to meeting you as well. The situation is not as bleak as it once was. I expect a major barrier to come down, in our state at least, sometime this month. It could happen between now and these meetings.

We can go into it in detail there.

64 posted on 09/08/2002 1:29:09 PM PDT by Ahban
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: niki
But if we don't acknowledge there is a problem, how do we fix it?

Ok. Problem acknowledged. Possible solution? Term limits.
See? That was easy. (Except for Mr. Baldwin).

65 posted on 09/08/2002 1:35:02 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Ahban
"We can go into it in detail there."

I hope so, but it will take some doing to even bring down the Rat stronghold here.

66 posted on 09/08/2002 1:38:20 PM PDT by sweetliberty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: sweetliberty; AAABEST
Silly, AAABEST was looking for "leftist Republicans . . . attacking all posters . . . , " [emphasis added] not supposed "conservatives" doing the same.

Can't you adress the substance of the article posted above? /sarcasm

67 posted on 09/08/2002 1:44:08 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: niki
Given the left has control of the media and the schools, it may end up being a one party system.

Fortunately, "control of the media" means less than it used to. AM radio talk is 80%-90% middle of the road to the right, only about 10% is left. The internet provides a bunch of forums like this one, again mainly middle to right.

I don't recall the last time I watched NBC/ABC/CBS etc news. So, yeah, if you think "the media" is defined by the big networks and the NYT (which provides the leads for the big networks) then yes, the media is lefty. But if you include AM talk radio and the internet it definitely is not.

The major papers in most of the country are pretty balanced. The lefties are offset by the righties (e.g NYT versus WSJ).

68 posted on 09/08/2002 2:25:11 PM PDT by dark_lord
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
AAABEST was looking for "leftist Republicans

I don't have to look, they seek me out. I'm Salmon Rushdie in their world.

69 posted on 09/08/2002 2:29:57 PM PDT by AAABEST
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: AAABEST
har
70 posted on 09/08/2002 2:50:58 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: niki
I whole heartedly concur.
71 posted on 09/08/2002 5:57:42 PM PDT by BADJOE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: goldenboy
Hate to burst your bubble but "conservatives" like other conservatives before them will no doubt cave into "cultural marxism". They will compromise away their independence and ultimately their way of life.

Am so afraid you are correct, goldenboy. (You've seen this already I am sure, but others haven't...) How easy it is to accomodate until the issue is lost, as related by a German:

"THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE FREE: THE GERMANS, 1933-45"
by Milton Mayer
The University of Chicago Press

From the chapter, "But then it was too late" pages 169 to 172, 1966 edition.

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even talk, alone; you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' Why not?---well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty."

"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, 'everyone' is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, 'It's not so bad' or 'You're seeing things' or 'You're an alarmist.'

"And you ARE an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh- pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have."

"But your friends are fewer now. Some have drifted off somewhere or submerged themselves in their work. You no longer see as many as you did at meetings or gatherings. Informal groups become smaller; attendance drops off in little organizations, and the organizations themselves wither. Now, in small gatherings of your oldest friends, you feel that you are talking to yourselves, that you are isolated from the reality of things. This weakens your confidence still further and serves as a further deterrent to---to what? It is clearer all the time that, if you are going to do anything, you must make an occasion to do it, and then you are obviously a troublemaker. So you wait, and you wait."

"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worse act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked---if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in '43 had come immediately after the 'German Firm' stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in '33. But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D."

"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying 'Jew swine,' collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in---your nation, your people--- is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibilty even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way."

"You have gone almost all the way yourself. Life is a continuing process, a flow, not a succesion of acts and events at all. It has flowed to a new level, carrying you with it, without any effort on your part. On this new level you live, you have been living more comfortably everyday, with new morals, new principles. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things that your father, even in Germany could not have imagined."

"Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done, (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the University when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair."

72 posted on 09/08/2002 6:30:09 PM PDT by Eala
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Jimer
Or on any other party.

In light of recent events on this forum, perhaps it is time that the people of Free Republic consider forming our own party.

Given that the philosophical foundation has all but completely eroded from beneath the Republican party, with no forseeable possibility of being replaced, that doesn't seem so outlandish an idea.

73 posted on 09/08/2002 7:28:24 PM PDT by Darth Sidious
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Eala
It is happening to us BigTime.

Thank you for posting this.
74 posted on 09/08/2002 9:38:44 PM PDT by BADJOE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: billbears
There doesn't seem to be Republican alive who remembers Ronald Reagan's famous quote, "Government is not the solution to the problem; government is the problem!"

In that same speech (1st inaugural address) the Gipper also said, "It is my intention to curb the size and influence of the federal establishment and to demand recognition of the distinction between the powers granted to the federal government and those reserved to the states or to the people. All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create the states; the states created the federal government."

75 posted on 09/09/2002 5:56:42 AM PDT by 4CJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: JZoback
"When enough of "we the people" have enought of big governement "we the people" will put an end to it."

Yeah, sure we will. When do we have enough, when they come to take our guns because of a new law making them illegal?
When they take our private property and give it to illegal immigrants for compensation because they are poor?

True, we don't have to elect the Daschels and Gebhardts, but don't you find it strange that they somehow manage to get re-elected even though everyone we know seems to dispise their politics?

Unfortunately the traitors in Washington are very well placed to impose policy, and most of them aren't even elected by the people. They have government jobs by proxy. They screen the information available to Senators and Reps because of their limited time available to completely research the consequences of legislation. Instead using the "advisors" for policy based information. Little of our real dissent towards faulty government decisions ever reaches those who actually make the decisions.

Yeah, let us wait till we are good and tired of government tyranny. Just how much more are you willing to give up before you have had enough? Better start a rock collection to throw at the enemy when you get mad enough. You won't be alone. There are plenty of sheeple who think the same way. Someone will surely do the fighting for you.
76 posted on 09/09/2002 9:09:24 AM PDT by o_zarkman44
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-76 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson