Posted on 09/10/2002 3:41:31 PM PDT by zapiks44
And: " The crowd of anti-Nazi protesters did not have the same nonviolent ideology. I was spat upon. I was physically and verbally threatened. "
Oh how painful it can be when we first awake from the phony leftist utopian dream and have to confront reality in broad daylight. You've taken your first shaky step back to reality, Sarah, but judging from the rest of your article, you've still got a VERY long way to go.
Sarah says: " During a mission trip to Israel with the International Hillel Organization, I learned that there are no absolutes in politics just as there are no absolutes in life. "
That's your next step, Sarah. It won't be easy. Pray that you don't learn it after Israel has already been trampled under the jack boot of Palestinian hatred and terrorism.
Youth is truly wasted on the young.
Regards,
Boot Hill
Regards,
Boot Hill
www.vdare.com
What I would call an anti-semitic Jew would be, for example, a Jewish anti-zionist. I'm fairly convinced that antizionism equals antisemitism.
Does the same hold true for Townhall.com which links to Sam Francis? The anti-semetism by association routine doesn't hold water.
I don't think, really, an odd link is much of an indicator. But if you look at a site where most of the links are to sites that have racism as an overwhelming theme, you have a pretty good idea.
Name one non-self-hating Jewish site that isn't?
Actually, most of those seem not to be overly concerned with race. More like concerned with a cultural identity and religious identity. Which makes perfect sense when you consider that Jews come in all kinds of colours and shapes :).
"Does the same hold true for Townhall.com which links to Sam Francis? The anti-semetism by association routine doesn't hold water."
I don't think, really, an odd link is much of an indicator. But if you look at a site where most of the links are to sites that have racism as an overwhelming theme, you have a pretty good idea.
1. Francis is a columnist linked to by Townhall.com as is another even more viscious anti-Semite and Holocaust Revisionist, Joe Sobran.
2. How is VDare.com racist? Because it cares about the ethnic make-up and Heritage of America?
"Name one non-self-hating Jewish site that isn't?"
Actually, most of those seem not to be overly concerned with race. More like concerned with a cultural identity and religious identity. Which makes perfect sense when you consider that Jews come in all kinds of colours and shapes :).
Jews think of themselves as a race. Whether we call ourselves a Jew (from the tribe of Judah or the nation of Judea) or Israelite (a descendant of Jacob {racial progenator} and a nation).
Read the Bible. Jews/B'nei Yisrael are a nation defined by blood and belief and thus a people.
Cultrual Identity and Religious identity are characteristics of the race.
At any rate, how can you support the right of Jews to have a country with a defined racial or religious/cultural core and not Americans?
I was really touched by her whining about the holy words of Malcolm X being subverted to serve the adherents of Yassir Arafat. Screw her.
That was what I said, no?
2. How is VDare.com racist? Because it cares about the ethnic make-up and Heritage of America?
You're not paying attention. I said that if VDARE places a rabid racist in a position of prominence (which he has if half the articles linked on the front page are his, for example), they are leaning in that direction and places themselves as an excellent tool for people who are, undeniably, racists. But the main thing is that they are then definitely not "mainstream".
Jews think of themselves as a race.
Some / many / most / Jews may do so. So what? That doesn't make it a fact :).
Cultrual Identity and Religious identity are characteristics of the race.
So a black Jew, a white Jew and an Indian Jew are of the same race? Not, I'm afraid.
At any rate, how can you support the right of Jews to have a country with a defined racial or religious/cultural core and not Americans?
Bah. America always were mixed nuts, at least once the nuts started getting in. And if you'd want to reserve America for a "racial core", it would be the American Indians, wouldn't it? And as I said, Jews are not a race - a certain POV doesn't make that true. So America may be a cultural unit to a large degree, and Israel too. None of them are racial units, nor should you really want them to be.
Cachelot responded:
That was what I said, no?
You called all anti-Zionist Jews self hating.
I don't consider the sects who believe that without the Messia there should be no Israel to be self hating. They are followinbg a tradition.
I do believe that the institutionalised teachings forced upon them by the Roman court Rabbis after the Bar Kochba revolt.
"2. How is VDare.com racist? Because it cares about the ethnic make-up and Heritage of America?"
You're not paying attention. I said that if VDARE places a rabid racist in a position of prominence (which he has if half the articles linked on the front page are his, for example), they are leaning in that direction and places themselves as an excellent tool for people who are, undeniably, racists. But the main thing is that they are then definitely not "mainstream".
They are not mainstreme. The American people want immigration reform and the media will not allow its discussion.
"Jews think of themselves as a race."
Some / many / most / Jews may do so. So what? That doesn't make it a fact :).
1. Most sociologists will tell you that race is a social construct. (I don't buy this). If so, then Jews, who consider themsevles a race and are considered a race, are a race.
2. Jews from all over the world really do share a lot more genetic code than most think.
http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Jewish_Genes.asp
It seems to me that Jews are a race.
"At any rate, how can you support the right of Jews to have a country with a defined racial or religious/cultural core and not Americans?"
Bah. America always were mixed nuts, at least once the nuts started getting in. And if you'd want to reserve America for a "racial core", it would be the American Indians, wouldn't it? And as I said, Jews are not a race - a certain POV doesn't make that true. So America may be a cultural unit to a large degree, and Israel too. None of them are racial units, nor should you really want them to be.
American Indians are anything but the ethnic core. This was not thier country. They were subjects of the various Indian Nations. They were not citizens. We took their land.
The central core is the white, mostly British, populace at the founding, who make up 1/3 of Americans. They set up the polity and are what everyone else is supposed to assimilate to.
If you think Israel doesn't have a racial core, let in 3 million Arabs (who you think Sephardim and Mizrahim resemble) and see what happens.)
Race doesn't define culture, but heritage does to a large degree. Importing people of different heritages is destroying our cultural unity.
Although Jews receive automatic rights to citizenship non-Jews 18 years of age or older may acquire Israeli nationality by naturalization subject to a number of requirements, such as:
they must have resided in Israel for three years out of the five years preceding the day of submission of the application.
they are entitled to reside in Israel permanently and have settled or intend to settle in Israel;
they have renounced their prior nationality, or have proved that they will cease to be foreign nationals upon becoming Israeli citizens. The Minister of the Interior may exempt an applicant from some of these requirements..
See here.
Seems no more stringent than most countries including the USA.
Been there, done that. It's in my favorites in two different folders: "Immigration - Anti" and "Politics - Extremist - Xenophobia & Racism".
So, let's experiment a little. If such a sect should side with Arafat and declare that yes, Israel should cease to exist and the Jews should accept whatever he wished to visit upon them, they would be "non-self-hating"? (I prefer the term antisemites, actually - it carries the correct associations, which is no doubt why the neonazis are quite keen to get rid of it).
They are not mainstreme. The American people want immigration reform and the media will not allow its discussion.
Sorry. I meant mainstream in the sense of representing most Americans. Sam Francis is certainly not mainstream in that sense, and he seems to make up a great part of that site, and so the site is not representative for the views of most Americans. I can go on explaining this to the micro level, of course. It'll take time.
1. Most sociologists will tell you that race is a social construct. (I don't buy this). If so, then Jews, who consider themsevles a race and are considered a race, are a race.
So the argument is bogus, and you admit it's bogus. Yet you still lean on it.
2. Jews from all over the world really do share a lot more genetic code than most think.
So many Jews share some genetic code. And that has what to do with race? Genetic code will tell you a few things about bloodlines - family type of stuff. A genetic marker doesn't necessarily signify a racial characteristic. Another bogus argument.
Now consider this: if I were to convert to Judaism, I would be a Jew. That single fact alone renders your whole "racial platform" null and void. There are things that are sort of special about the Jews as a people, but race doesn't enter into it.
A piece of advice for you: if you absolutely must debate racial questions, it behooves you to get a grip on what race is.
American Indians are anything but the ethnic core. This was not thier country. They were subjects of the various Indian Nations. They were not citizens. We took their land.
This is senseless and ridiculous.
The central core is the white, mostly British, populace at the founding, who make up 1/3 of Americans. They set up the polity and are what everyone else is supposed to assimilate to.
And so is this.
If you think Israel doesn't have a racial core, let in 3 million Arabs (who you think Sephardim and Mizrahim resemble)
Where, exactly, did I mention Sephardim and Mizrahim? Seems you are running a parallel argument somewhere else, with someone else. Are you? And what exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? There are Arabs in Israel. Not to mention Black Jews and Asian Jews ;).
Israel's Nationality Law relates to persons born in Israel or resident therein, as well as to those wishing to settle in the country, regardless of race, religion, creed, sex or political belief. Citizenship may be acquired by: Birth,The Law of Return Residence, Naturalization, Acquisition of Nationality by Birth is granted to:
Thanks for the information, which confirms what I previously stated. There is much misinformation regarding Israel and it being a "Jewish" state. Yes, it was founded on the basis of establishing a homeland for all Jews who wish to come there, but it also welcomes others, as long as they abid by the laws. To bad the USA does not have the same standard regarding immigration
I know that it is considered anti-Semitic to point out that American Jews are finding themselves in a bit of a pickle. On the one hand, they tend to fervently promote the idea that humans should all be fungible creatures with no ties to each other by blood or by soilanything else is racist and diabolical. And yet, as Jews they reserve the right to refer to themselves as a people apart, with a distinct identity and a homeland that they defend on the basis of ethnicity. This is obviously contradictory, which is why the author finds herself being attacked by her friends on the left. Anyone could have seen this coming, and while I feel for her, I am not surprised that she experienced what she experienced.
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