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Hey NeoCON's Read This.....
Sean Hannity Web Forum ^ | October 18, 2002 | Sean Hannity member mickjp

Posted on 10/19/2002 10:01:15 AM PDT by Trouble North of the Border

Sean Hannity member mickjp Post Number 1

http://www.hannity.com/forum/index.cfm?fuseaction=read&forum=1&id=7996

I defy anyone on this board other than fdcol, to refute the following 12 items without personal attack, references to bodily functions or a total absence of TRUTH and FACT.

The bakers dozen list of why you are DANGEROUS, narrow minded and ill informed:

1. Fail to acknowldedge the SENATE's constitutional requirement to approve all treaties.

2. The SENATE was a REPUG majority in 1994 and you still blame Clinton for N. Korea.

3. You clearly ignore the recent bombings in Bali, the Phillipines and the bombing of the tanker in Yemen...clear and OBVIOUS Al-Queda actions.

4. You refuse to acknowledge that your President CLEARLY misled Congress and the American public by WAITING until the Iraq Resolutions were pa*sed and signed in the White House BEFORE he "leaked" the N. Korean situation while "blamint" Clinton.

5. You refuse to acknowledge that the same President who labeled both Iraq and N. Korea as members of the Axis of Evil is NOW intent on bombing one who "might" or "could" or "may" have WMD and issuing calls for "negotiations" with one who was confronted with concrete knowledge of Nuclear capabilities and clearly and unequivocably stated it was true.

6. you Refuse to discuss why it makes sense to attack Iraq and Negotiate with North Korea and ignore the reality, that N. Korea has a 1-million man, well equipped army across the Korean DMZ and we have 37,000 well equipped troops on the other side. We only fight weak members of our Axis of Evil.

7. You refuse to discuss why your President who told the American people a year ago "we will bring Bin Laden to Justice, dead or alive" has so far done no such thing, and the new boogey man is Saddam Hussein.

8. You refuse to discuss we have an American President who "negotiated" with the World Community at the UN by saying in effect, "do it my way, or we will do it without you" totally bankrupting any world support we recieved post 9-11 for our death and destruction at the hands of Al Queda. And who yesterday was taught democracy by the rest of the world when we HAD to remove all the bellicose cowboy shoot em up rhetoric from the draft resolution.

9. You refuse to discuss the 80+ ongoing UN Resolution violations by our allie, Israel.

10. you refuse to discuss how our single most valuable Allie in the Middle East in our war on AL qQueda terror....Pakistan, supplied the North Koreans with "nuclear technology" in exhange for missles to tip with their own nukes to point at our other allie India. Nor will you discuss the fundamentalist muslim gains in the Pakistani "elections" last week where all but Al Queda was eliminated by a military dictator from the ballot.

11. You refuse to discuss how China and Russia who also clearly aided N. Korean nuclear development didn't make it to the Axis of Evil hit parade.

12. You refuse to acknowledge or discuss CIA Director, George Tennents Thursday warning to the Senate Committee on Intelligence that Al Queda is at levels of activity pre 9-11-01.

Now, while you refuse to accept my challenge and refute with "fact", "truth" and "history" any of the above and only use juvenile platitudes or HannityLimbaughCoulterNorth platitudes about the "left" in your responses; I am going to go enjoy the REAL world, populated by real Americans who truly wonder WTF is up with America, all of you on this board, its politicians, fundamentalist Isalmaists, and every other "wonder" the rest of you refuse to discuss because the RNC didn't put it in you playboook.

Have a great day!

>>>

Sean Hannity member mickjp Post Number 2

By Barbara Ehrenreich, The Progressive October 16, 2002

http://www.hannity.com/forum/index.cfm?fuseaction=read&forum=1&id=7993

On the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, I turned on the TV in my hotel room to catch the latest news about the missing intern, Chandra Levy. Maybe that's not what I wanted to see, but it's all I was likely to see on CNN, which had devoted itself almost exclusively to the case since at least July. We'd had O.J., we'd had Tonya Harding and Monica Lewinsky, and now the cable news channels were, as we liked to say that summer, "All Chandra, all the time." So the images of planes crashing into buildings, followed by buildings crashing to the earth, did not, at first, compute. If anyone had a motive, I figured in my post-traumatic stupor, it had to be Gary Condit.

The events of that morning went far beyond anything that could be handled by the usual cliché of a "wake-up call." We Americans had been lazy, willfully ignorant, and self-involved to the point of solipsism. If there was an outside world, we didn't want to know about it, unless the death of a beautiful princess was involved. And now here it was: palpable, in-your-face evidence of the existence of people unlike ourselves, people who were, in fact, murderously hostile to us and clever enough to eclipse even Chandra. We had been following, I now realized, the plot line of innumerable horror films, in which the thoughtless teenagers party hard in some ramshackle, out-of-the-way site until one of the group shows up dead and hideously mutilated. That is the point at which it dawns on them that they are not alone, that there is someone out there -- some incomprehensible Other who wants them dead. But with the beer flowing and the hormones surging, they have no way of organizing against the threat.

Many Americans responded, in those first few months after the attack, in generous and intelligent ways. They sent aid to the victims' families; they bought up books on Islam and learned to distinguish between Arabs and Muslims, moderates and fundamentalists, Sufis and Wahhabists. In some communities, good-hearted people reached out to the Arab-Americans, Sikhs and Hindus who were suddenly facing vengeful hara*sment from the incorrigibly ignorant. Churches shared Ramadan feasts with mosques; students assembled for teach-ins. We were playing a desperate game of catch-up, trying to comprehend a whole world, that of Islam, we'd dismissed as too musty and backward to bother with.

But now that we were awake, we also needed to respond -- a point that the brave anti-war demonstrators who briefly flourished in the fall of 2001 did not always seem to grasp. When someone declares "death to Americans" -- babies and old people alike, not to mention Jews, Israelis, and possibly Christians -- you've got an enemy, like it or not. I, for one, did not want to earn my frequent flyer miles wrestling with suicide-killers. With great reluctance and foreboding, I had to agree with the Bush administration that America needed to launch a "war on terror," or at least a determined effort to apprehend the terrorists.

How to go about it, though? Terrorists, by definition, lack the obvious targets, like capital cities, government buildings, and uniformed armies. They are warriors without a state or, in this case, even a clear-cut geographical point of concentration. As it soon emerged, the presumptive comrades of the 9/11 suicide-bombers are scattered around the globe -- in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan, Somalia, Germany, France, Indonesia, England, Pakistan and the Philippines. An enormous amount of intelligence, in every sense of the word, would be required to flush them out: Cells would have to be infiltrated, prospective defectors courted, investigations launched all over the world. Plus, of course, we'd have to try to understand the roots of their bitterness and the conditions -- of both poverty and thwarted middle class ambitions -- that nourished them. If we wanted a real "war on terror," that is.

What we got is something very different. First, there was war against Afghanistan, which at least had the advantage of being a far more familiar type of military target than a diffuse international network of terrorists. No one can mourn the fiendish Taliban whom American and British bombs quickly displaced, but other than that, it is hard to know, a full year later, what exactly the war accomplished. Are the leaders of al-Qaeda dead or merely scattered? Have their far-flung cells been rendered headless and impotent, or were they decentralized enough to carry on independently? If the goal was to crush terrorism, there is no way of knowing whether this war succeeded.

As for Afghanistan, it is in little better shape today than it was a year ago, with hunger rampant, warlords riding high in the countryside, and most women still too fearful to emerge from their burkas. Unknown numbers of civilians -- somewhere between 500 and 3,000 -- managed to get in the way of the bombs and the bullets, earning us the lasting enmity of their survivors. Maybe all we won was the fleeting satisfaction of countering violence with violence, however misdirected -- like those traditional societies in New Guinea in which even deaths by disease were "avenged" by going to war against a neighboring village.

But at least, in Afghanistan, our leaders were still ostensibly waging a war on terrorism. For reasons unclear to the rest of the world -- attention deficit disorder or possibly early-stage Alzheimer's -- that project is now being dropped. Al-Qaeda may still be festering on three or four continents, preparing to dispatch thousands more Americans by plane-bombs or poison. But we are gearing up for war with, of all places, Iraq.

Why not Germany, where some of the pre-9/11 plotting took place, or Saudi Arabia, which supplied 15 of the 19 terrorists? Or, if the idea is to topple headstrong, potentially roguish leaders who have the means of mass destruction at their fingertips, why not Pakistan, North Korea, India, or Sharon's belligerent Israel? There are no known connections between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, aside from a history of mutual dislike, and no reason to start a new war when the old one is nowhere near finished. One can't help suspect that our leaders sense they've gotten nowhere at all in the war against terrorism, and are eager to change the subject.

Whatever motivates current U.S. foreign policy -- oil, domestic politics, or the Oedipal rage of a lackluster son -- it isn't likely to make us any safer. The war in Afghanistan, combined with Bush's meek stance toward Sharon, has already convinced Muslims throughout the world that their lives have no value to America's leaders. An invasion of Iraq and the attendant "collateral damage" will harden the impression that the United States is pursuing its own kind of jihad -- against the Islamic world. Inevitably, a generation of young Muslims in Riyadh or Cairo or Hamburg will seek martyrdom by taking out some of us.

So here we are, caught inside the horror film we know so well from the screen. 9/11 awakened us briefly from our fantasies of sex and murder and weight loss to the existence of an implacably hostile Other. But like the partying teens in the movies, the people in charge can't seem to figure out a way of responding that doesn't recklessly escalate the danger.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS:
Sorry, for the title, but that is the title this liberal disrupter on the Sean Hannity forum has listed. I responded to two of his twleve, but who has time to answer all of them.

It seems the lib/Dems are taking over Sean's forum, and I was wondering if any of the finely honed debating skills here at FR could be applied to this particular case.

The conservative's on Sean's forum don't seem to have the experience and wit that FR here has, as a public service to Sean H., if anyone had the time to respond to this drivel on his public forum, I'm sure he would be appreciative.

What this creepy liberal said, made me kind of mad, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it for y'all to read.

1 posted on 10/19/2002 10:01:15 AM PDT by Trouble North of the Border
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To: Trouble North of the Border
>>>1. Fail to acknowldedge the SENATE's constitutional requirement to approve all treaties.<<<<

I love when they bring up the constitution when it seems it is to their advantage.
When WJBCX42 was in office, we were to ignore the passage "high crimes and misdemeanors" -- high crime = felony perjury, misdemeanors = _____________.

2 posted on 10/19/2002 10:09:44 AM PDT by fone
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To: fone
Here's what some other fool wrote and my reply:

shantyirishEd
"It's been every administration since the end of WW II who has blundered in the middle east, clinton included, but especially when the european powers and the u.s. carved out the nation of israel, and the palestinians were displaced. I'm not taking sides on the israel/palestinian fight, but, you'd have to be blind to not see that, uprooting palestinians, who had been there for 1500 years, was going to make them fight. that was a 'quick fix' political solution to make amends to the jews, because the u.s. and britain ignored what the nazis were doing to the jews in germany. the whole region has been a quagmire and i don't see either side as right or wrong. but make no mistake, the u.s. did help to cause the hatred toward us. how would you feel to have your home taken from you to further the nation? it's been done to jews, palestinians, american indians etc."

My Reply
So the truth comes out...y'all think the creation of Israel was wrong, or "not right".

"I'm not taking sides on the israel/palestinian fight..."

OH YES YOU ARE!

Jews have always lived in Palestine, before the creation of Israel, many, many had immigrated and homesteaded there before it became a nation...that is WHY it became a nation!

It is sad that the palestinians 'seem' to have been short shifted, it is sad that the American Indians were moved to reserves...

...key question...are you WILLING and ABLE to immigrate out of America to make reparations to the Indians?

In reality, only a little over 50 years seperates what happened to the Sioux and what happened to the Palestinians.

If you are not willing to sell your home back to the North American Indians and move back to your "country of origin", then you are hypocrite to criticize Israel!

When criticizing American “foreign policy” too many people are foolishly dwelling in the past rather looking at reality in the present and future.
3 posted on 10/19/2002 11:17:57 AM PDT by Trouble North of the Border
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To: Trouble North of the Border
1. Fail to acknowldedge the SENATE's constitutional requirement to approve all treaties.

See Senate resolution authorizing action in Iraq because Iraq was in material breach of the cease fire agreements and UN resolution...

2. The SENATE was a REPUG majority in 1994 and you still blame Clinton for N. Korea. The treaty made with North Korea that provided them with an assortment of funds and aid in exchange for a promise not to produce nuclear weapons was made in late 1994, not before. And it was a Democrat puppy- the Republicans were screaming bloody murder over it.

1994 : (CLINTON, NORTH KOREA) When confronted in 1994 by incontrovertible evidence North Korea was building nuclear weapons and delivery systems, Clinton chose to bribe rather confront Pyongyang. He dragooned South Korea and Japan into joining Washington to offer North Korea an amazing US$4.6 billion in oil, food and light-water nuclear reactors in exchange for its promise to halt building nuclear weapons and producing plutonium. ... North Korea pocketed Clinton's massive bribe, and continued building weapons of mass destruction and their delivery systems. While claiming it was facing famine, and gulling credulous aid organizations with pictures of scrawny babies, Pyongyang found money to expanded its army and artillery arm, continued to excavate vast, underground military storage sites and emplaced more long-range, 175-mm guns under concrete along the DMZ. Infiltration raids and spy missions against the south increased sharply.- "U.S. finally awakening to N. Korean threat," Toronto Sun, 2/7/99 ERIC MARGOLIS http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a36bdb365114b.htm

3. You clearly ignore the recent bombings in Bali, the Phillipines and the bombing of the tanker in Yemen...clear and OBVIOUS Al-Queda actions.

No kidding. You're point?

4. You refuse to acknowledge that your President CLEARLY misled Congress and the American public by WAITING until the Iraq Resolutions were pa*sed and signed in the White House BEFORE he "leaked" the N. Korean situation while "blamint" Clinton.

Horsecrap- everyone with a brain has known from the get-go that N. Korea wasn't going to abide by the agreement. And it's been known for YEARS that N. Korea has at least two nukes.

Ya think North Korea was building missiles like these to launch pop tarts or nukes? I guessed nukes way back then... I take it you really believed the harmless pop tart nonsense about the satellite :

1998 fall : (NORTH KOREA FIRES LONG RANGE MISSILE OVER JAPAN) North Korea's growing ability to upgrade the medium-range Taepo Dong 2 missile into an ICBM by adding a third stage was validated last fall when it fired a long-range missile right over Japan, producing howls of impotent rage in Tokyo. - "U.S. finally awakening to N. Korean threat," Toronto Sun, 2/7/99 ERIC MARGOLIS http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a36bdb365114b.htm

Oh boy, here's one from 1997 :

.... A U.S. intelligence official said spy agencies are trying to confirm the existence of an underground nuclear test site in N. Korea and noted that Pyonyong is well-schooled in tunneling and hiding such activities from U.S. spy satellites. If N. Korea is confirmed to have nuclear weapons, it also would be contrary to U.S. intelligence assessments claiming that Pyongyang has produced enough plutonium for up to four nuclear devices, but that the existence of deliverable weapons is not known- "Hwang says North Korea has nuclear weapons, " By Bill Gertz, THE WASHINGTON TIMES, June 5, 1997

Meanwhile, Joe Lockhart was still drinking the kool-aid...

SEPTEMBER 1999 : (LOCKHART) "…"On the basis of these discussions, it is our understanding that North Korea will continue to refrain from testing long-range missiles of any kind as both sides move toward more normal relations," explained White House spokesman Joe Lockhart. Normal relations? The very same day Lockhart issued this statement, here's what the official North Korean news agency had to say about warming relations with the U.S.: "... The most important aim sought by the U.S. in the establishment of the 'Theater Missile Defense' system (TMD) is to build up the sphere of its unchallenged domination over the Asia-Pacific region. ... It is working hard to militarily stifle the DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea) through the establishment of the 'TMD.' However, any ' missile defense' system of the United States will be of no use because of our strong striking power." - http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_btl/19990924_xcbtl_clintons_s.shtml 9/24/99 Joseph Farah

Clinton's former Sec. of Defense Perry was still drinking kool-aid too:

OCTOBER 1999 : (FORMER SEC DEF PERRY SUGGESTS COEXISTANCE) ".....Former Defense Secretary William Perry, in a long-awaited policy review, recommended Tuesday that the United States and its Asian allies try to coexist with the Marxist rulers in Pyongyang rather than undermine them or promote internal reform. The strategy is in sharp contrast with the way Washington handles what it calls rogue or pariah states - states such as Iraq, Libya and Cuba - and reflects the gravity of the military threat which North Korea could pose. Perry said the United States should instead gradually eliminate sanctions and reduce pressures North Korea sees as threatening, in exchange for assurances that North Korea does not have a nuclear weapons program and will not test, deploy, produce or export long-range missiles, the report said. The State Department released an unclassified version of the report Tuesday but the broad thrust of its contents has been common knowledge for months. The United States has already acted on Perry's recommendations. It eased economic sanctions in September after Pyongyang agreed to suspend its next long-range missile test. Perry, who spent 10 months reviewing North Korea policy at the request of President Clinton, concluded that an attempt to hasten the demise of the North Korean government would take too long and had no guarantee of success. Such a policy would raise the risk of a destructive war on the Korean peninsula and would give the secretive Stalinist state time to proceed with its weapons programs, he said. ....." - Reuters 10/12/99

But REPUG Gilman wasn't buying:

OCTOBER 1999 : (REP. GILMAN'S FEARS WOULD COME TRUE) "....From remarks by Rep. Benjamin Gilman (R-N.Y.) at a House International Relations Committee hearing yesterday: Without question, North Korea constitutes one of our nation's greatest foreign policy challenges. The DPRK [Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or North Korea] is also the country most likely to involve the United States in a large-scale regional war over the near term. . . . The threat to U.S. interests continues and is now actually spreading into less conventional areas. The DPRK has deployed three new types of missiles since 1993, the newest capable of striking our nation. This presents a clear and present danger to our national security and allows North Korea to create a balance of terror in Northeast Asia. North Korea, arguably, is the largest proliferator of missiles and enabling technology in the world today. Its transfers to South Asia and to the Middle East are particularly distressing and potentially destabilizing. Despite the '94 agreed framework, North Korea may still be pursuing a nuclear program. The DPRK may be seeking a parallel program based on highly enriched uranium, which strongly suggests that North Korea never intended to curb its nuclear ambitions My greatest fear is that this unpredictable regime in Pyongyang will continue its covert nuclear weapons program with an intercontinental ballistic missile capable of striking the United States and our current policy will have failed to prevent it....."- Wash Post - pageA24 10/143/99 Rep Benjamin Gilman * ".....The Chairman of the House International Relations committee at a Capitol Hill hearing Wednesday said that "North Korea may still be pursuing a nuclear program and is arguably the largest proliferator of missiles and enabling technology in the world." Rep. Benjamin Gilman (R-NY) also called North Korea one of America's greatest foreign policy challenges because Gilman believes it "is also the country most likely to involve the United States in a large scale regional war over the near term." ..... Gilman went on to say the "Clinton Administration has conditioned North Korea to believe that brinkmanship brings benefits. I am concerned that our policies towards North Korea have failed and our aid is sustaining a brutal regime." Last August, House Speaker Dennis Hastert appointed Gilman to lead a study of North Korea's threat to the United States and its allies. The study is expected to be released later this month. ...." - Conservative News Service 10/14/99 Jim Burns

5. You refuse to acknowledge that the same President who labeled both Iraq and N. Korea as members of the Axis of Evil is NOW intent on bombing one who "might" or "could" or "may" have WMD and issuing calls for "negotiations" with one who was confronted with concrete knowledge of Nuclear capabilities and clearly and unequivocably stated it was true.

Too bad Clinton hadn't done the same back when North Korea "might" or "could" or "may" have WMD. By the way, both Iraq and Korea DO have WMD. WMD isn't just nukes. And nukes are not the most deadly WMD weapons.

Even according to Scott Ritter, now a turncoat, Iraq had three bombs made, needing only sufficient enriched material. By most accounts Iraq would have been able to scrounge up enough uranium for a bomb since it already had at MINIMU a head start from its old Soviet 'research' reactor. Iraq is well underway to establishing a home grown means of enrichment by the way. It's been importing Brazilian stuff for years now.

Speaking of Iraq and North Korea...

."OCTOBER 1999 : (N KOREA PLANS TO EXPORT DAEPODONG -I MISSILES, OFFERS TO SELL SUDAN MISSILE FACTORY, SUPPLIED MISSILE-RELATED GOODS TO SYRIA, PAKISTAN, EGYPT, IRAN, LIBYA, & CONGO; N KOREA SAYS IT WILL STOP IF US PAYS ) "….North Korea plans to export its long-range Daepodong-I missile from next year, South Korean government officials said yesterday. The weapons would sell for US$6 million (HK$46 million) each, one official said. A report also said the communist country had demanded US$500 million in compensation from the United States to halt exports of ballistic weapons…… The news agency said that during bilateral talks in Berlin in September, North Korea demanded US$500 million from the US in return for stopping missile sales abroad. ……The Washington Times says that according to a Pentagon intelligence agency report earlier this month, North Korea offered to sell Sudan an entire factory for assembling Scud missiles and also supplied missile-related goods to such countries as Syria, Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, Libya and Congo. ….. " - South China Morning Post 10/30/99

There was a little bit more to the story on that Sudanese deal, and it involved Iraq. Not to mention the items North Korea was shipping to Pakistan which was intercepted by India. As we know, Pakistan was helping the Taliban, and the Taliban were of course essentially wired in with al Qaeda.

Here's the Pakistani bound intercept India made:

OCTOBER 1999 : (INTEL ON INDIA INTERCEPTION OF N KOREAN MISSILE COMPONENT SHIPMENT TO PAKISTAN, MISSILE STEEL TO EGYPT, IRAN & LIBYA , EVEN CONGO, POSSIBLY INVOLVED FOR URANIUM) "….. Other recent activities by the North Koreans outlined in classified intelligence reports include: North Korea last summer tried to ship missile components to Pakistan but the ship was intercepted during a stop in India. In July, North Korea sent specialty steel with missile applications through a Chinese company in Hong Kong to Egypt, which is secretly cooperating with Pyongyang in building Scud missiles. Iranian officials recently traveled to North Korea to discuss missile cooperation. Iran is building two types of medium-range missiles, mostly with Russian and Chinese assistance. There are some signs that North Korea is assisting Libya with its efforts to develop missiles. North Koreans are helping train the Congo military and may be paid for the training with uranium ore from the African nation's Shinkolobwe mine -- where fuel for the first U.S. nuclear weapons originated….." - The Washington Times 10/28/99 Bill Gertz (* My Note: Wonder if this has anything to do with the attempt to get Uranium from Africa by both al Qaeda and Iraq revealed in Bush's speech in late 2002?)

The deal was to construct advanced long range missiles for Iraq INSIDE Sudan.... so that once world opinion made the US lift sanctions - or before if the smuggling could be done- those missiles would be smuggled into Iraq.

Lots of folks were worried about it... not just from Korea: JANUARY 2000 : (N KOREA'S MISSILE PROGRAM DESCRIBED AS EXTENSIVE, N KOREA ON VERGE OF PRODUCING ICBMS, PROBABLY IRAN AND POSSIBLY IRAQ, TOO) "…. In another recent report, the Air Force's National Air Intelligence Center at Wright­Patterson AFB, Ohio, described North Korea's missile program as extensive. "North Korea has ambitious ballistic missile development programs and has exported missile technology to other countries, including Iran and Pakistan," the unclassified report said. "The North Koreans have already flight-tested their No Dong MRBs [Medium-Range Ballistic Missiles], and the Taepo Dong 1 MRBM booster was used in an' attempt to orbit a satellite' in August 1998." The test showed the two-stage booster "apparently performed successfully," the report said…… North Korea has moved quickly to a high position on the intelligence community's strategic missile threat list, ranking a notch below Russia and China. A National Intelligence Estimate--a consensus view of more than 10 US intelligence organizations--was made public in September. It warned of new dangers from North Korea's missile program. "We project that during the next 15 years the United States most likely will face ICBM threats from Russia, China, and North Korea, probably from Iran, and possibly from Iraq," the report said. The report notes that North Korea is the driver in the spread of missiles….." - Air Force Magazine 1/2000 Bill Gertz

Heck, even Rummy was in on worrying about it since at least 1998 :

JULY 1998 : (RUMSFELD CONGRESSIONAL PANEL REPORT ISSUED) The Congressional panel headed by former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, however, appeared more candid. The panel's report issued in July 1998 states: "The commission judges that the No Dong was operationally deployed long before the US government recognized that fact. There is ample evidence that North Korea has created a sizable missile production infrastructure, and therefore it is highly likely that considerable numbers of No Dongs have been produced." Because of the Intelligence Community's failure to assess both the scope and pace of the No Dong development, the Rumsfeld commission warned that "the United States may have very little warning prior to deployment of the Taepo Dong 2"--the missile that can target the United States. - Air Force Magazine 1/2000 Bill Gertz JANUARY 2000 : (NORTH KOREAN DEVELOPMENT OF NO-DONG MISSILE, POSSIBLE DEPLOYMENT, RUMSFELD) "…. Worries do not end with the Taepo Dong. North Korea also has developed a new 620-mile-range No Dong missile. The No Dong was flight-tested only once but is believed by military officials to be deployed and to pose a direct threat to troops not only in South Korea but at bases in Japan as well……. The Congressional panel headed by former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, however, appeared more candid. The panel's report issued in July 1998 states: "The commission judges that the No Dong was operationally deployed long before the US government recognized that fact. There is ample evidence that North Korea has created a sizable missile production infrastructure, and therefore it is highly likely that considerable numbers of No Dongs have been produced." Because of the Intelligence Community's failure to assess both the scope and pace of the No Dong development, the Rumsfeld commission warned that "the United States may have very little warning prior to deployment of the Taepo Dong 2"--the missile that can target the United States. ….The North Koreans also have exported the No Dong to Pakistan and Iran. The No Dongs have been, as one official put it, "repainted" and named the Ghauri and Shahab 3 missiles. "Obviously, North Korea has them, and Pakistan has the No Dong derivatives as a Ghauri," the official said. "The Shahab 3 is based on it as well with some other foreign assistance. I don't expect it to stop there. ... I expect over time we're going to see more countries emerge with them." …..Pentagon intelligence agencies reported in the fall that North Korea offered to Sudan an entire factory for assembling Scud missiles, like those produced in North Korea. Also, North Korea recently supplied 10 tons of aluminum powder obtained from China to Syria, another intelligence report stated. The aluminum powder is being used by the agency of the Syrian government involved in building weapons of mass destruction and missiles, said an official who has seen the report sent to senior US policy-makers. One official said the recent intelligence reports are a clear sign the new policy is not working. "So much for the Perry approach," this official said….." - Air Force Magazine 1/2000 Bill Gertz

Even defectors were worried about it, but the Dems were probably demanding more 'proof.' Well, no they weren't... they were bopping their interns... no cares in the world.

FEBRARY 2000 : (NORTH KOREAN DEFECTOR CONFIRMS THAT NORTH KOREA HAS MISSILE CAPABLE OF REACHING CALIFORNIA) "….A senior North Korean scientist who reportedly defected to the United States has told South Korean authorities that the North has developed a missile capable of reaching California, a leading newspaper here reported Friday. The defector, Lim Ki Sung, said the missile had a range of 6,000 kilometers, 3,725 miles, far longer than defense experts had previously estimated, Chosun Ilbo, South Korea's largest newspaper, reported.''That distance would be a really big development,'' said Cho Chung Pyo, assistant foreign affairs secretary on the staff of President Kim Dae Jung. ''That kind of capability was never previously indicated.''The newspaper said that Mr. Lim, who is 59, had fled North Korea in December along with his son, 31, also a missile expert, and a nephew, 32, who had been a North Korean Army officer. The three told a bizarre story of having decided to flee after Mr. Lim's wife died and a number of their relatives were executed, according to the paper…." - International Herald Tribune 2/19-20/00 Don Kirk "A North Korean defector claims Pyongyang has finished building a missile that can hit the United States, reports said yesterday. Missile expert Lim Ki-song, 59, defected to the United States last month with his son, Lim Hak-jin, 31, and nephew-in-law, Kim Song-su, 32. According to South Korean media reports, they took with them a treasure trove of intelligence on the North's missile development, including samples of rocket fuel. South Korean officials voiced surprise that such a missile had actually been built. However, they have previously said the North was developing a missile with 6,000km range, capable of striking the western United States. Pyongyang's missile capability was previously believed to have been limited to the Daepodong-I, with a 3,000km range……."- South China Morning Post 2/19/00 Roger Dean Du Mars

Bubba was more worried about a Nobel peace prize.... and giving the North Koreans some perks for doing absolutely nothing to live up tho their agreement, so the North KOreans could slip into the market without having tho change:

MARCH 2000 : (CLINTON ADMINISTRATION TRIES TO REMOVE NORTH KOREA FROM STATE DEPARTMENT LIST OF TERROR SPONSORS, US ASKS NORTH KOREA TO GIVE UP JAPANESE RED ARMY TERRORISTS IT IS HARBORING AND CUT OUT SALES TO TERRORIST GROUPS) "….. The Clinton administration wants to remove North Korea from the State Department's list of terror sponsors. In a striking bid to bolster relations, Michael Sheehan, the coordinator of State's counterterrorism office, presented North Korean officials this month with a deal: give up the Japanese Red Army terrorists it continues to harbor and cut its links and arms sales to terrorist groups...." - U.S. News & World Report 3/19/00

REPUG Gilman still isn't drinking the Clinton Kool-Aid and neither is Hastert:

JANUARY 2000 : (GILMAN) "…. Soon, the US will be within range, and the missiles will be on the world market. North Korea has embarked on a broad buildup of its ballistic missile force and is on the verge of fielding an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile capable of reaching the United States. ….. "It is now believed that two types of North Korean Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles can strike the continental United States with weapons of mass destruction," said Rep. Benjamin A. Gilman (R-N.Y.), chairman of the House International Relations Committee and head of a special advisory panel on North Korea. "For the first time in our history, we are within missile range of an arguably irrational rogue regime. Regrettably, we cannot defend against that threat." The problem of North Korean missiles is made worse by the fact that Pyongyang has become a wholesaler of missiles and related technology and materials. In the words of one US defense official: "They are becoming The Home Depot for missile sales around the world." …." - Air Force Magazine 1/2000 Bill Gertz

And what's Clinton doing? Trying to screw the US taxpayer as usual:

APRIL 2000 : (CLINTON ADMINISTRATION TRIES TO MAKE US LIABLE FOR NUCLEAR DISASTERS IN NORTH KOREA) "Warning to American taxpayers: Without knowing it, you may soon take on responsibility for what could be billions of dollars in liability stemming from nuclear accidents in, of all places, North Korea. At the behest of the General Electric Co., the Clinton administration is quietly weighing a policy change that would make the U.S. government the insurer of last resort for any disasters at the civilian nuclear plants being built for the North Korean regime. In case of a Chernobyl-type disaster in North Korea (a country not known for advanced safety procedures), the U.S might wind up paying legal claims. The proposed U.S. government guarantee, now being intensively studied by the State and Energy departments, would be aimed at easing the way for construction of two light-water nuclear reactors in North Korea. Those reactors are a key element in the Clinton administration's 1994 deal in which North Korea agreed to freeze its nuclear weapon program. ......" - Los Angeles Times 4/18/00 Jim Mann

APRIL 2000 : (NUCLEAR BOMB PRODUCTION) "North Korea's nuclear production capacity will increase from a dozen nuclear bombs a year to 65 a year by 2010, thanks in large part to American taxpayer money, two renowned U.S. nuclear scientists told congressional leaders last week. North Korea observers have long suspected the communist dictatorship is using Western humanitarian aid to starving North Koreans to feed Kim Jong Il's million-man army. But an aid policy initiated by the Clinton administration in the mid-1990s to finance two light water nuclear reactors in North Korea puts the isolated communist country on the fast track in the manufacture of nuclear weapons, William R. Graham and Victor Gilinsky told members of the House Policy Committee. North Korea's missile proliferation has accelerated dramatically since the Clinton-Gore administration began giving aid to the regime in 1994…"- CNSNews.com 4/17/00 Lawrence Morahan

The House was trying to stop it:

APRIL 2000 : (HOUSE TRIES TO END US AID TO NORTH KOREA) "…The House Policy Committee will examine ways to put an end to the Clinton-Gore aid to Kim Jong Il's Stalinist North Korean dictatorship. That aid is being used to feed Kim Jong Il's million-man army, to provide fuel oil for North Korean military industries, and to build light water nuclear reactors that will provide plutonium for nuclear weapons. Two top nuclear scientists will discuss the dangers posed by Clinton-Gore financed light water nuclear reactors during a briefing at the Committee's weekly executive session at noon, Wednesday, April 12 in the Capitol. …….. The U.S.-supplied light water reactors will produce plutonium sufficient to arm 65 nuclear warheads each year. These warheads would pose an increased threat because they could be mounted on long-range North Korean ICBMs developed while the Clinton-Gore administration gave foreign aid to North Korea. ……..The two nuclear scientists who will brief the Policy Committee, Dr. William R. Graham and Dr. Victor Gilinsky, are expected to tell the House Leaders that while the facilities North Korea was building on its own would have produced enough nuclear weapons-grade material for about a dozen bombs a year, the plutonium produced by the new light water nuclear reactors U.S. taxpayers are financing can be reprocessed to arm 65 bombs a year-more than five times as many. …….Kim Jong Il's callous disregard for American -- and world -- opinion, and his regime's apparent disdain for the Clinton-Gore administration's policy of nurturing ties with the failing Communist state, do not stop there. North Korea notoriously engages in counterfeiting U.S. currency, and sells illegal drugs as a matter of national policy. Kim Jong Il is apparently not shamed by the capture of his diplomats and agents who have been caught red-handed in these criminal activities. The Clinton-Gore administration, in its sad adherence to this dangerously failed policy of appeasement-for-abuse, at least deserves credit for consistency. It has met every one of North Korea's violations of its international agreements with an apology and a rationalization. The purpose of Wednesday's meeting is to seek ways to end this craven policy, and to make protecting U.S. national security the goal once again…….Paul J. Wilkinson Director of Communications House Policy Committee ……" - policy.house.gov via Reagan.com 4/11/00

Even the Japanese knew about the refinement effort, so Bush hasn't sprung any surprises on anyone:

1989 - 2000 + (NORTH KOREA REFINES URANIUM, US FAILED TO DETECT FACILITY) "… Tokyo: North Korea has operated a secret uranium refining plant since 1989 for its nuclear weapons program, a Japanese newspaper said yesterday, on June 10, 2000. The underground Chonma Power Plant, in north-western Chonama mountain, had a uranium refining capacity of 1.3 grams a day, the Sankei Shimbun said. About 400 people, including 35 engineers, worked at the plant, the daily said, quoting a Chinese report in which a former North Korean military official, who fled to China last year (1999), had unveiled details of the plant. Other workers were political prisoners who had been sentenced to life in prison, the missile station commander said in the Chinese report. North Korea has been suspected of secretly pursuing a nuclear weapons program, for which it would require uranium. ……The Chinese report said the United States had not detected the Chonma plant, although its technical team had inspected Kumchag-ri, 30 kilometres south-east of Chonma. Despite two inspections conducted in Kumchag, the US failed to realise that forests near the site were polluted by industrial waste water from the Chonma plant, the Japanese newspaper Sankei Shimbun said. After the second inspection, the US said late last month (June 2000 ) that the suspected nuclear site in Kumchag-ri was an unfinished, empty complex. ……." - SMH 6/10/00

More bribery from Bubba:

JULY 2000 : (US TO HELP NORTH KOREAN SPACE PROGRAM IN TRADE FOR ABANSONING ICBM PROGRAM ) "……The United States is prepared to explore ways to help North Korea's space programme if Pyongyang abandons development of intercontinental ballistic missiles, the Pentagon said on Thursday. A spokesman rejected providing North Korea with rocket boosters to put its own satellites into space but suggested that Washington would consider launching North Korean satellites. "We do think that developing space launch capability is frequently a way to move toward ICBM capability. So we are in favour of helping countries get into space without developing that capability," Bacon said. ….." - Dawn 7/22/00

Here you go, just what I was looking for....get the implications here?

AUGUST 2000 : (REPORTS THAT IRAQ IS FINANCING SCUD MISSILES IN SUDAN, WITH NORTH KOREAN HELP, FOR FUTURE USE BY IRAQ) "……The U.S. intelligence community fears new reports may indicate Iraq is financing construction of a Scud missile assembly plant in Sudan, enlisting North Korea’s help, ABCNEWS has learned. …….. Sources say North Korean personnel would build and run the plant, with the assembled Scuds to be held in Sudan for Iraq’s future use — a prospect that worries U.S. officials. ……The intelligence community has two separate reports that indicate such a deal is in the works. If they prove true, it raises significant concerns that Saddam Hussein is back in business trying to make Scud missiles, although outside Iraq. ….." - ABCNews 8/10/00 Barbara Starr

6. you Refuse to discuss why it makes sense to attack Iraq and Negotiate with North Korea and ignore the reality, that N. Korea has a 1-million man, well equipped army across the Korean DMZ and we have 37,000 well equipped troops on the other side. We only fight weak members of our Axis of Evil.

Iraq is centrally located to a lot of places we need to deal with. If it goes, Iran will go as well. If both of them go, and the US has the ME cleared out, who will North Korea sell to then? It will be more isolated than ever and will collapse, as it should have a few years ago before we started propping it up. Iraq is manageable right now, and we won't have to worry about it pulling a North KOrea is we deal with it NOW. While Clinton was piddling, reluctant to take out Aidid, Somalia came back to bite us, and running away from that set us up for 9/11 and for Korea thumbing its nose at us. Castro said it best wheh he was in Iran in May of 2001 "America is weak...I have seen it up close... together, we can bring it to its knees." The same thing happened with Imad Mugniyah, the man behind Hezbollah, and with Afghanistan. Clinton kept WAITING, preferring appeasement over action. Even when he had the opportunity to take out key figures, he balked. I know for a fact that that's true in Aidid's case.

So, if you have two problems and one of them is a small and simple one, do you do nothing because the other one is bigger? Do you wait until you have two enormous problems or at least take care of the one? If you take care of the easy one, it will tend to lessen the other by limiting the big problems' suppliers and also by ensuring people take you seriously. Clinton wasn't taken seriously, which is why he got duped.

7. You refuse to discuss why your President who told the American people a year ago "we will bring Bin Laden to Justice, dead or alive" has so far done no such thing, and the new boogey man is Saddam Hussein.

Please, present me with a recent video of Osama bin Laden... we've been waiting since he was turned into pulp back in December 2001. I say he's dead. Prove me wrong. Not that it matters; I've said all along that going after terrorists like al Qaeda was going to involve going after Iraq, Iran, and IMHO, Cuba. And Syria as well. But we don't need to take them all on simultaneously nor use the same strategy for each one.

8. You refuse to discuss we have an American President who "negotiated" with the World Community at the UN by saying in effect, "do it my way, or we will do it without you" totally bankrupting any world support we recieved post 9-11 for our death and destruction at the hands of Al Queda.

"World Suppport" means nothing if they just "feel your pain." Nothing. Zip, zilch. PLease tell me what "world support" would have accomplished since it accomplished nothing over the last ten years other than all of the "citizens of the world BS," and "it takes a global village" BS is what got us into this mess in the first place. At least this way we know who our allies are and the President's brother isn't laughing it up with North Korean dictators , his wife isn't pushing to get pardons for FALN terrorists, his Party chairman isn't consorting with KOrean crooks, his VP isn't taking Chinese Red Army cash from Buddhist monks, and Arafat isn't trying to smoke a damp cigar in the White House Rose Garden.

And who yesterday was taught democracy by the rest of the world when we HAD to remove all the bellicose cowboy shoot em up rhetoric from the draft resolution.

If you knew anything about democracy, you would be terrified of it. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on who is for supper. Technically, we don't 'have' to remove languase,nor even get a UN resolution. We're already loaded for bear and authorized to go. But if it makes some folks feel good, we can give them bread and circuses in the UN so the impotent, weak and irrelevent nations can pretend to be players and have good morale.

9. You refuse to discuss the 80+ ongoing UN Resolution violations by our allie, Israel.

I don't give a rat's butt about the UN; it is corrupt and that is obvious to one and all- it's been an obvious failure since before Libya got on the Human Rights Council and so forth. It's a JOKE, and always has been a joke, because its constitution is inherently FLAWED. Hopefully, by the time we're done, the UN will be dust or will be altered beyond your wildest expectations.

10. you refuse to discuss how our single most valuable Allie in the Middle East in our war on AL qQueda terror....Pakistan, supplied the North Koreans with "nuclear technology" in exhange for missles to tip with their own nukes to point at our other allie India.

After Clinton screwed them over in Somalia- where they lost more men than did we- and where we turned tail and ran - Pakistan would have been stupid to trust the US. Instead of working with Pakistan to prevent the Islamicists from gaining a foothold , for years we protected and coddled the likes of Arafat to please a group of people whom no one in the Mideast wants anything to do with because they are MARXISTS... the Palestinian leadership.

Any nation would be foolish not to seek arms, the very best they can obtain. This goes for 'good' countries and for 'bad' ones. It's not the arms which are bad, it is the type of government behind them, and govenments change over time. But it would also be foolish for us to allow countries we cannot trust to get arms which are likely to be a threat to us. India balances Pakistan nicely, and Pakistan is not interested in lobbing nukes on us. Neither is India. Our biggest threat with Pakistan is if their security drops, someone who is willing to use nukes may get them and use them on us. Korea, on the other hand, is a problem because in a pinch they may call on China for help, and if armed with nukes they make just move into South Korea and dare us to stop them by threatening LA. And if they get three-stage missiles, they can threated a good deal more than that, forcing us to let them have South Korea and cutting our losses with all of the personnel we have there. It's the blackmail picture we really would have prefered not to see.

Nor will you discuss the fundamentalist muslim gains in the Pakistani "elections" last week where all but Al Queda was eliminated by a military dictator from the ballot.

I'm more concerned about the Democrats that just swiped voting machines in south Florida. Pakistan is trying to survive. Care to have Osama's brother rule becuase he wins 'fasir and square,' then see a civil war erupt of epic proportions within a country armed with nuclear missiles?

11. You refuse to discuss how China and Russia who also clearly aided N. Korean nuclear development didn't make it to the Axis of Evil hit parade.

They're there. By the way, China just gave them what Clinton & Gore already gave China... in exchange for those campaign donations.

12. You refuse to acknowledge or discuss CIA Director, George Tennents Thursday warning to the Senate Committee on Intelligence that Al Queda is at levels of activity pre 9-11-01.

And this is relevent because of what? One year after Pearl Harbor, what were the Axis powers'levels of activity? As I recall, we had to fight them on several fronts, in mor ethan one Ocean... in scores of countries. I also need to point out that the 'level of activity' on 911 was pretty low, relative to anythjing this country's seen in war before. We were attacked by only 19 guys.

The level of activity was no higher than it was before the US embassies in Africa got hit. Or before the USS Cole. Or before the attempt on the USS The Sullivans, or the Millenium PLots, or Project Boginka in the Philippines. In fact, the level of activity has been pretty friggin high since 1998 when the Intifadah and the UNSCOM inspector situation cooked off. Did it ever occur to you that 'al Qaeda' is but one TINY fraction of the problem here? We were hit by SEVERAL groups, including Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and you name it, with the bulk of the scumbags living protected in western countries enjoying the protections of our civil liberties. If we really wanted to put a dent in al Qaeda the easy way, we'd have to bomb London's Finsbury Park Mosque. Problem is, the BRITS should be able to do this and clear them out, but then Amnesty International wouldn't approve, just as the ACLU goes out of its way to protect illegals and terrorists here. The people we're catching involved in plots with one another aren't all from little insulated groups- they are multinational, interwoven with many diverse groups with varying ideologies but one central theme of hate, and for all practical purposes it looks like there is state involvement from many directions.

4 posted on 10/19/2002 12:04:57 PM PDT by piasa
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Pardon my spelling- critter on the keyboard syndrome.
5 posted on 10/19/2002 12:17:32 PM PDT by piasa
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To: Trouble North of the Border
Neoconservitve is "a former liberal espousing political conservatism", and is one word. I guess that would also be the definition of a RINO. There is no debating those type of people.
6 posted on 10/19/2002 1:21:09 PM PDT by MattMa
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To: piasa
Piasa, wow! Do you want me to repost that for you on Sean H's forum, or do want to yourself?
7 posted on 10/19/2002 1:39:31 PM PDT by Trouble North of the Border
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Another liberal making a fool out of himself. NHman "I can't believe anyone actually believes that the Bush Admin didn't purposely wait 12 days to tell the country about North Korea. They were in the middle of a debate on attacking Iraq when a real enemy showed their real threat. Bush Admin kept it a secret because their resolution would have been dead, dead, dead, dead. You are seeing the pinnacle of the Republican party. It will be over very soon. If the brainwashed conservatives allow the country to continue on this current course, a real revolution will occur. America's power is in serious jeopardy. I just hope it doesn't come to a crushing end with another superpower declaring war and destroying our extremely spread out military."
8 posted on 10/19/2002 1:52:50 PM PDT by Trouble North of the Border
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2. The SENATE was a REPUG majority in 1994 and you still blame Clinton for N. Korea.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe the Democrats controlled the Senate through the 1994 elections. It wasn't until the new Congress of 1995 that the Republicans took over. I thought Clinton had a Democrat Senate and House for his first two years, and so turned off the electorate that the Republicans gained control of both houses at the first opportunity. Didn't we throw a "temper tantrum" in 1994?

9 posted on 10/19/2002 2:05:30 PM PDT by vollmond
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To: MattMa
Neoconservitve is "a former liberal espousing political conservatism", and is one word. I guess that would also be the definition of a RINO. There is no debating those type of people.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. This thinking empirically demonstrates intellectual laziness.

The XI Commandment, please.

10 posted on 10/19/2002 2:15:11 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: rdb3
If knowing the definition of a word, and letting people know the definition, is intellectually lazy than I'll be lazy.

Thank you for taking the time to insult me.
11 posted on 10/19/2002 4:02:42 PM PDT by MattMa
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To: MattMa
I didn't insult you. Try again.
12 posted on 10/19/2002 4:08:37 PM PDT by rdb3
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To: Trouble North of the Border
>>>If you are not willing to sell your home back to the North American Indians and move back to your "country of origin", then you are hypocrite to criticize Israel!<<<

Damn straight! Although I visited Scotland once, and it is quite beautiful, I am RedWhiteandBlue through and through.

Thanks for the interesting thread.

13 posted on 10/19/2002 7:18:16 PM PDT by fone
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To: Trouble North of the Border
Go ahead, if you don't mind; I'm not signed up on his forum and some of that data is worth getting out there. Much of it is material I reformatted from Alamo-Girl's records.
14 posted on 10/19/2002 8:21:47 PM PDT by piasa
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To: piasa
Wow! Excellent rebuttal to the idiot on the website! Can I take a breath now? :-)
15 posted on 10/19/2002 8:39:03 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: ladyinred; Howlin; Alamo-Girl; tallhappy; Lion's Cub; Cindi
You can't take a breath now... ; )

There is more where that came from- both from what Alamo-Girl has saved on her site to what I've accumulated in timeline format; this is just a sampler skimmed from the top.

There were some great threads on North Korea back before 911 on this forum.

Maybe some others have more to add.... like Torricelli and his curious dealings in that region...

16 posted on 10/19/2002 8:45:33 PM PDT by piasa
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To: Travis McGee; Jeff Head
can you add to this ?
17 posted on 10/19/2002 8:46:34 PM PDT by piasa
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To: piasa
Not a bit! I just stand back in awe of our in-house arhivists.
18 posted on 10/19/2002 8:54:37 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: piasa
Done:-) No lib/Dem replies...imagine that...
19 posted on 10/19/2002 9:18:56 PM PDT by Trouble North of the Border
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To: piasa
Here's a few excerpts as examples of how Clinton bypassed the Senate, why it was never enough to have a Republican majority without also getting Clinton out of the White House:

1997 “... in 1997 Pentagon documents revealed that the so-called National Missile Defense program was underfunded by an astonishing 100 percent--a discovery that was made by the same Pentagon officials who had been running the program for two years...” - Gertz, Bill National Review February 22, 1999 http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a36c453df1c1d.htm

1999 MAR XX “The White House is working behind the scenes to ensure that missile defense won't be "technologically possible" for at least a decade... In this case, it's important to look past the public proclamations. Which brings us to the Space Based Infrared System, or SBIRS-Low for short...

SBIRS-Low is the heart of any U.S. missile defense system, from the simplest--such as using our current fleet of Navy Aegis cruisers to launch anti-missile interceptors--to the most advanced space-based lasers. ...

On February 4, just two weeks after Secretary Cohen's announcement of a pro-missile defense policy, the Air Force cancelled its contracts with TRW Inc. and the Boeing Corp. for two SBIRS-Low demonstration projects. The reason for these cancellations, according to Aviation Week and Space Technology, was to "avoid cost-and-schedule impacts on the SBIRS-Low constellation."

But this is nonsense. In fact, Boeing and TRW will be paid the lion's share of the contracts anyway, including the portion that covered the cancelled demonstration projects...” - Kennedy, Brian T. "Clinton Administration's Forked-Tongued Defense Initiative" The Claremont Institute March, 1999 http://www.claremont.org/ballmiss/kennedy3.cfm (5 APR 2001)

1999 JUL 27 “U.S. Sen. James M. Inhofe (R-Okla.) said today President Clinton is employing word games and abusing the constitutional lawmaking process to cover-up his administration's ideologically-driven opposition to protecting the American people from ballistic missile attack. "Every American must understand that the Clinton-Gore administration strongly opposes the deployment of a national missile defense system," Inhofe said. "They must also understand the President's position has not changed in spite of signing a bill into law last week which calls for the deployment of such a system. "In the spirit of redefining what the meaning of 'is' is, the President has brazenly chosen to interpret this new missile defense law in a manner contrary to its intended and stated purpose. In so doing, he makes a mockery of the Constitutional lawmaking process and once again illustrates the threat posed by his incessant deception, manipulation and dishonesty."

Inhofe was referring to President Clinton's actions Friday in which the President a) signed into law a bill calling for the deployment of a national missile defense system; and at the same time, b) issued a statement claiming the bill actually called for no such thing. - Inhofe, Senator James "Inhofe says Clinton cannot hide Administration's opposition to missile defense." July 27, 1999 http://www.senate.gov/~inhofe/pr072799.html (6 APR 2001)


20 posted on 10/19/2002 10:10:46 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: piasa
You did a great job with your research, piasa! Thank you!

I've been trying to think what I could add, but frankly you've summed it up very well - and since the original question covers so much ground, I'd have to include huge chunks of the Downside Legacy to clear the air on what really happened to national security under Clinton - so here goes:

STATUS OF U.S. MILITARY:
OVERVIEW OF STATUS
DEFENSELESS AGAINST ICBMs
UNDERMANNED, POORLY EQUIPPED, SPREAD TOO THIN
POOR MORALE

STATUS OF U.S. INTELLIGENCE:
UNDERMANNED AND UNSUPPORTED
PIERCING SECURITY
ECHELON AND OTHER HIGH TECHNOLOGY
EXPORT CONTROL
TECHNOLOGY GIVE-AWAYS

BEHIND THE TREASON ALLEGATIONS - TIMELINES:
TO 1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1998
1999

BEHIND THE TREASON ALLEGATIONS - PEOPLE:
SANDY BERGER
RON BROWN
WILLIAM PERRY
HAZEL O'LEARY
JANET RENO - DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
ERIC HOLDER
IRA SOCKOWITZ
C. JOSEPH GIROIR, JR.
HENRY WAXMAN
JAMES C. WOOD, JR.
JUDGE ROBERTSON
JUDGE FRIEDMAN
JUDGE MORROW
STROBE TALBOTT
JOHN HUANG
THE CAST OF CHARACTERS

BEHIND THE TREASON ALLEGATIONS - EVENTS:
RED FLAGS PART 1
RED FLAGS PART 2
RED FLAGS PART 3
RED FLAGS PART 4
LAUNCH AND GUIDANCE
SHIPPING AND PORTS
SATELLITES AND COMMUNICATION
FOREIGN CONTRIBUTIONS

BEHIND THE TREASON ALLEGATIONS - FOREIGN POLICY:
CHINA:
GENERAL PART 1
GENERAL PART 2
PROLIFERATION
HUMAN RIGHTS
ECONOMY

ASIA:
NORTH KOREA
INDONESIA
VIETNAM AND CAMBODIA
SOUTH CHINA SEA
TAIWAN
JAPAN

PAKISTAN/INDIA

MIDDLE EAST:
GENERAL
ISRAEL AND PALESTINE
AFGHANISTAN, SUDAN and OSAMA BIN LADEN
IRAN
IRAQ

RUSSIA:
ECONOMY
GENERAL
PROLIFERATION
EUROPEAN ECONOMY

PEACEKEEPING (KOSOVO, BOSNIA, etc.):
PART 1
PART 2
PART 3
PART 4

OTHER:
NATIONAL SECURITY - GENERAL
TERROR
LAWLESSNESS
NATIONAL LABORATORIES

21 posted on 10/19/2002 10:24:48 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Thank you!
22 posted on 10/20/2002 2:59:52 AM PDT by piasa
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To: Alamo-Girl
Some people, unlike some here, really have no clue at all and see no further than the red, inflamed nose on x42's face! Let it fall on their own heads.
I like to think of 'em as mumblers (to utter words in a low confused indistinct manner).
23 posted on 10/20/2002 5:01:21 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Trouble North of the Border
The SENATE was a REPUG majority in 1994 and you still blame Clinton for N. Korea.

Foreign policy is the President's realm.

24 posted on 10/20/2002 5:03:20 AM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: piasa
I'm glad the information was helpful! Here's a bump to your great research!!!
25 posted on 10/20/2002 8:19:42 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: philman_36
Well said, philman_36 ... people cannot see with their eyes closed.
26 posted on 10/20/2002 8:21:12 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Trouble North of the Border; piasa
It seems the lib/Dems are taking over Sean's forum

This is a libertarian rant that presents the peculiar libertarian world view and highlights their lack of rational thought processes.

Piasa did a good job. It is hard to address comments that are so illogical, irrational or factually incorrect.

If anyone hasn't read Ann Coulter's book Slander, do so. She writes well about just these problems.

27 posted on 10/20/2002 9:47:24 AM PDT by tallhappy
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