Are there any differences between Conservatives and Libertarians?

1/12/03 | Sparta

[Sparta]

I've been reading posts by people who use the term Conservative and others who use the term Libertarian. I have a question for all FReepers, is there a difference between the two?

[dobberkcd]

Nor do I.The war on drugs is related to power and not to drugs.It is a way of levying additional taxes through seizure of property.

[Charlie OK]

very insightful. I appreciate your putting into words precisely how I feel as well. 'Cept I would tend to fall between conservative and libertarian, not conservative and liberal. Perhaps that is what you meant too?

[Godel]

very insightful. I appreciate your putting into words precisely how I feel as well. 'Cept I would tend to fall between conservative and libertarian, not conservative and liberal. Perhaps that is what you meant too?

Whoops, was that a freudian slip about how I'm disappointed with the libertarian position on immigration? =P Yes, It was a mistake.

[Eagle Eye]

There are liars, damn liars, and pseudo republican Conservatives who cannot articluate their own positions, but feel the need to mischaractarize the positions of others.

Labels like "Pro-drugs" and "Pro Abortion" are propaganda (lies) used by the so called Conservatives to spin the discussion so as to prevent actually discussing the issues.

REAL Conservatives don't need to tell lies about others and don't feel compelled to use government to impose their wills on others. REAL Conservatives know that drugs were legal until the last half of the last century. REAL Conservatives can handle the idea that other citizens may do things that they may not like or approve of. REAL Conservatives are for Constutional government, not what W is doing, not what goes on in the War on (some)Drugs.

I came to FR believing myself to be a Conservative, yet after seeing the obnoxious, rude, misleading posts by self proclaimed Conservative, I knew I didn't want to be one of those any more. I'd rather be falsely thought to be pro-drug, pro-porn, pro-abortion than to be identified with FR Conservatives.

Today's Conservatism on FR is a mixture of fascism (government control of industry), socialism (Government handouts, funding the Dept of Ed., etc), Statism (government regulation of personal lives, food, drink, medications, iminent domain), and Democrat party attitudes due to so many Democratic defections in the last decade.

I know the difference between REAL Conservatives and most of those on this thread who are Big Government statists with a Conservative name tag.

The differences between REAL Conservatives and libertarians are not great, but they are there.

[headsonpikes]

We know absolutely why the anti-opium laws were passed; there's no mystery here.

It was to enable the government to deport unwanted Chinese laborers back to China.

the same sorts of laws were enacted in Canada prior to your Harrison Act.

Similarly, the laws against marijuana, in Canada, were specifically aimed at black jazz musicians--you could look it up. Apparently, your anti-marijuana laws were anti-Mexican.

How any moral person can associate themselves with the devilish indecency of these laws is beyond me.

(Actually, that's not true--I know it's peer pressure...and pensions.)

[Charlie OK]

I might move myself a touch more toward right conservative, but this seems pretty accurate.

[Prolix]

Avoid labels.

Nice idea but I don't think you can. For example, I consider myself to be neither a conservative nor a liberal but in some situations I may be labelled (or is it libelled) as one or the other. If I'm asked to label myself I prefer the label: constitutionalist. The U.S. Constitution is more important to me than whatever issues are the political fads of the day. Also, I've sworn an oath to uphold the principles of the Constitution. I still do not like labels but I am not unhappy to be called a constitutionalist.

[Lopeover]

Yes there is a HUGE difference.

Libs don't want ANY government in our lives. Kinda bad idea as the world gets more crowded. They support legalizing drugs, okay with abortion, etc....fiscally are more aligned with conservatives only cheaper.

Libertarians are thought to be closer to conservatives, but this is NOT true. They will vote for their candidates which hands over our country to the democrat-socialists-progressives. It's their stragtegy to let the country go to h*ll and then all the people will "experience" the leftists agenda. Trouble with this strategy is that once you've fallen into hell, it ain't so easy climbing out while dem-soc-pros are keeping you in. A dem-soc-pro government would not change willingly.

Libertarians and their votes have turned our country into the leftist poop whole it is now.

[Democrap]

Federal government should be kept out of the question.

Then you should make a move to have your party platform changed to add the word federal.

[Tall_Texan]

Libertarian or not, YOU are the one who proposed the abolition of "ALL gun laws" (your words). That's a proposition I would suggest even the NRA would consider extreme (and I despise the use of that word in politics but, in your case, it seems to fit - at least on this issue).

I suggested you might reconsider with regard to laws that would keep guns from violent criminals and the mentally disturbed. You opined that the law would just empower government and would do nothing to keep guns away from these groups.

So I followed your logic (a law is not good if people are going to break the law anyway) to apply to other areas to illustrate the nonsense of your stated response.

It must have totally boggled your mind because, rather than trying to form a well-reasoned rebuttal, you launch into a tirade of insults - "idiot","moron","Centrist","statist","brainwashed","strawman", and suggesting I need to take my meds. I'm surprised you didn't call me a Nazi and a "facist" (since most folks who would call me a fascist are too stupid to correctly spell fascist).

I will concede that defending the second amendment is different than defending murder or rape. It was not my point to equate the two. It was my point to illustrate the absurdity of your logic.

You have made your point clear. I believe that once convicted of committing a violent crime (you DO believe in laws against violent crime, don't you, even though violent crimes are still committed even after laws are put in place to deter them - or is that just more statist drivel?) that one forfeits certain rights, including the right to vote, the right to freedom and the right to keep and bear arms. Sounds darned "common sense" to me - even though some will still try to vote, still try to break out of jail and still try to obtain weapons. In fact, I'd say my position is darned "conservative", if I dare say so myself.

It's nice to know your "tent bruning" would include a conservative Republican such as myself. I'm so far to the right of our President that it makes me angry that he keeps trying to remake the party into his little RINO clones.

But to suggest that keeping murderers and rapists from having guns makes me an idiot, statist, brainwashed, moron on meds is to truly marginalize your own position. If I confused you for a Libertarian, maybe it's because you demonstrated as much common sense and arrogance as your typical Libertarian. Perhaps you should really give them another look. They seem to be more in line with your belief system.

[Protagoras]

I don't think conservatives are as pro drugs as libertarians.

As a libertarian who opposes the use of drugs and knows that most do, I find your statement incorrect. The WOD notwithstanding.

[The Old Hoosier]

Wrong. Conservative very, very, very much want to legalize drugs, drug use, manufacture, licensing, dispensing. Legalization by law is the method. What you either aren't subtle enough to understand, and probably meant to say was that Conservatives don't want to DElegalize drugs.

I can tell that you disagree with me, but I don't understand your reply.

[Protagoras]

Libertarians are mostly interested in legalizing drugs.

Nice try. But a lie.

"Conservatives are mostly interested in starving babies". Same BS the liberals spew.

[Protagoras]

Horse hockey.

Liar, as usual.

[Nataku X]

I tend to view most of the differences in libertarian/conservative platforms as a trade-off between privacy and morality.

Let's take pornography for example. The only way anti-pornography laws can be enforced is to monitor Internet connections, among other drastic measures. Personally, I abhor pornography and what it has done to young men... (I even met one man who said he could not be attracted to real-life women since he viewed so much Japanese cartoon porn). However, the trade-off in regulation and privacy is not worth it, to me.

I've came to the conclusion that it is not a moral government that is nearly as important to God as an individual's own actions. The individual who committed immoral acts is responsible, regardless of whether there are laws in place or not.

As for the drug laws, it should be noted that libertarians are against taxfunded treatment programs--they say the "social darwinism" effect and your right to shoot any doper trepassing on your property will keep down usage. So please don't equate being immoral libertarianism with being immoral.

The Libertarian Party, though, is full of doo-doo heads.

[Nataku X]

sorry, that should have said "being libertarian with being immoral"

[Protagoras]

free software

Huh? Where does that come from? Intuit should be forced to provide sofware for free? I must have misunderstood.