Posted on 03/03/2003 8:50:18 PM PST by BlueOneGolf
The American Center for Law and Justice, a Christian law organization, has started a campaign for a petition of support for the Pledge of Allegiance with the words "under God". They will be filing a brief to the U.S. Supreme Court to have the recent Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals decision declaring the Pledge unconstitutional overturned. They will also include the Petition as an addendum to the brief so add your name and send the link to everyone on your e-mail list. Support the Pledge of Allegiance today!
The Pledge of Allegiance A Short History
The ‘Pledge of Allegiance’ is Un-American
Hank
Hey, if it's anything, it's Fascist. Try to keep things straight.
Anyway, you're making an error so common that it's part of the air now. You don't like the pledge, so therefore it's unconstitutional. The constitution says CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAWS respecting the establishment of religion. Somehow this is construed to mean that the courts will be the personal guardian of anyone who has a complaint against community practice ANYWHERE. A school board has no power to set standards and practices in the community, because the Supreme Court is the arbiter of the practices in every community. CONGRESS got lost in the shuffle somewhere.
dr_lew said: Hey, if it's anything, it's Fascist. Try to keep things straight.,p> Anyway, you're making an error so common that it's part of the air now. You don't like the pledge, so therefore it's unconstitutional....
What I said was: No true American should support this tool of socialist propaganda and programming.
...and I posted three links that talk about the history of the pledge, and those who developed and promoted it, and there intention in doing so. I suggested no "conspiracy," I only pointed out some history.
Since the promoters were socialists, and their agends is and was socialist, fascist is not the right term.
I said nothing about whether I personally like or dislike the pledge (I recited it every day for 12 years, up to about 40 years ago), and certainly never said it was "unconstitutional." I am not responsible for what the other links say.
Personally, I don't care if anyone does or does not recite the pledge or any other empty ritual. I am opposed to state mandated rituals, however, especially for children.
I also believe the concepts of the pledge subtly undermine the concepts on which our Constituional liberties are based and help train American children to slaivhly repeat whatever their government tells them to repeat.
If you insist on having children recite something, make it something useful, like the first two amendments to the Constitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Hank
Please allow me to present an insightful commentary made years ago by Red Skelton.
"…….Getting back to school, I remember a teacher that I had. Now I only went, I went through the seventh grade. I left home when I was 10 years old because I was hungry."
[laughter]
"And ... this is true. I worked in the summer and went to school in the winter. But, I had this one teacher, he was the principal of the Harrison school, in Vincennes, Indiana. To me, this was the greatest teacher, a real sage of ...of my time, anyhow."
"He had such wisdom. We were all reciting the Pledge of Allegiance one day, and he walked over. This little old teacher ... Mr. Lasswell was his name."
"He said: 'I've been listening to you boys and girls recite the Pledge of Allegiance all semester and it seems as though it is becoming monotonous to you. If I may, may I recite it and try to explain to you the meaning of each word?'"…….
I
- - Me; an individual; a committee of one.Pledge
- - Dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self-pity.Allegiance
- - My love and my devotion.To the Flag
- - Our standard; Old Glory ; a symbol of courage; and wherever she waves there is respect, because your loyalty has given her a dignity that shouts, Freedom is everybody's job.Of The United
- - That means that we have all come together.States
- - Individual communities that have united into forty-eight great states. Forty-eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose. All divided by imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common cause, and that is love of country, of America. And to the Republic
- - Republic--a sovereign state in which power is invested in representatives chosen by the people to govern. And government is the people; and it's from the people to the leaders, not from the leaders to the people.For which it stands
One Nation
- - One Nation--meaning, so blessed by God.Indivisible
- - Incapable of being divided.With Liberty
- - Which is Freedom; the right of power for one to live his own life, without fears, threats, or any sort of retaliation.And Justice
- - The principle, or qualities, of dealing fairly with others.For All
- - For All--that means, boys and girls, it's as much your country as it is mine.
And now, boys and girls, let me hear you recite the Pledge of Allegiance:I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country, and two words have been added to the Pledge of Allegiance: Under God. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer, and that be eliminated from schools, too? “
Red Skelton ( July 18, 1913 - Sept 17, 1997)
Thanks Red, … "Good Night ... and ... may God Bless"
'I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION...UNDER GOD!, INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL''I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG'"What do those words mean to you? To me they say, "Thank you, America, for your strength, your courage and for your freedom....which has been a beacon to the world for two hundred years."'OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA'"....Whose bright stars are fifty states...each bearing it's own stamp of individuality. People...two-hundred million strong...people...who have come to her from all corners of the earth. "'AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS'"A land of laws...which an ingenious system of checks and balances that allows no man to become a tyrant...and lets no group prevail...if their power is not tempered with a real concern for the government...a land where the right of dissent and of free speech is jealously guarded...where the ballot box is the sword...and the people its wielder."'ONE NATION...UNDER GOD!'"A land where freedom of worship is a cornerstone of her being. A land graced with temples and churches, synagogues and alters, that rise in profusion to embrace all the religions of the world. "'INDIVISIBLE'"A land forged by the hot steel of raw courage...and formed forever...by the awful crucible...of civil war. "'WITH LIBERTY'"Where man in pursuit of an honest life will not be denied his chance...where her citizens move freely within her vast borders without hindrance of fear...a land brimming with opportunity...where freedom of choice, is the guideline for all."'AND JUSTICE'"The courts of our land are open to all. Its wheels of justice grind for all causes...all people. They look to every avenue for justice...every concern of the law, and they temper their reasoning with mercy... "'FOR ALL'
I Am The Flag
The Pledge of Allegiance
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>Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.
The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth's Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. Its owner and editor, Daniel Ford, had hired Francis in 1891 as his assistant when Francis was pressured into leaving his Baptist church in Boston because of his socialist sermons. As a member of his congregation, Ford had enjoyed Francis's sermons. Ford later founded the liberal and often controversial Ford Hall Forum, located in downtown Boston.
In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'
His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]
Dr. Mortimer Adler, American philosopher and last living founder of the Great Books program at Saint John's College, has analyzed these ideas in his book, The Six Great Ideas. He argues that the three great ideas of the American political tradition are 'equality, liberty and justice for all.' 'Justice' mediates between the often conflicting goals of 'liberty' and 'equality.'
In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.
In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.
Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.
What follows is Bellamy's own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:>
It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution...with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...
The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the 'republic for which it stands.' ...And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that Oe Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?
Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, 'Liberty, equality, fraternity.' No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all...
If the Pledge's historical pattern repeats, its words will be modified during this decade. Below are two possible changes.
Some prolife advocates recite the following slightly revised Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unbornA few liberals recite a slightly revised version of Bellamy's original Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'
The Fourth of July was traditionally celebrated as America's birthday, but the idea of an annual day specifically celebrating the Flag is believed to have first originated in 1885. BJ Cigrand, a schoolteacher, arranged for the pupils in the Fredonia, Wisconsin Public School, District 6, to observe June 14 (the 108th anniversary of the official adoption of The Stars and Stripes) as 'Flag Birthday'. In numerous magazines and newspaper articles and public addresses over the following years, Cigrand continued to enthusiastically advocate the observance of June 14 as 'Flag Birthday', or 'Flag Day'.On June 14, 1889, George Balch, a kindergarten teacher in New York City, planned appropriate ceremonies for the children of his school, and his idea of observing Flag Day was later adopted by the State Board of Education of New York. On June 14, 1891, the Betsy Ross House in Philadelphia held a Flag Day celebration, and on June 14 of the following year, the New York Society of the Sons of the Revolution, celebrated Flag Day.
Following the suggestion of Colonel J Granville Leach (at the time historian of the Pennsylvania Society of the Sons of the Revolution), the Pennsylvania Society of Colonial Dames of America on April 25, 1893 adopted a resolution requesting the mayor of Philadelphia and all others in authority and all private citizens to display the Flag on June 14th. Leach went on to recommend that thereafter the day be known as 'Flag Day', and on that day, school children be assembled for appropriate exercises, with each child being given a small Flag.
Two weeks later on May 8th, the Board of Managers of the Pennsylvania Society of Sons of the Revolution unanimously endorsed the action of the Pennsylvania Society of Colonial Dames. As a result of the resolution, Dr. Edward Brooks, then Superintendent of Public Schools of Philadelphia, directed that Flag Day exercises be held on June 14, 1893 in Independence Square. School children were assembled, each carrying a small Flag, and patriotic songs were sung and addresses delivered.
In 1894, the governor of New York directed that on June 14 the Flag be displayed on all public buildings. With BJ Cigrand and Leroy Van Horn as the moving spirits, the Illinois organization, known as the American Flag Day Association, was organized for the purpose of promoting the holding of Flag Day exercises. On June 14th, 1894, under the auspices of this association, the first general public school children's celebration of Flag Day in Chicago was held in Douglas, Garfield, Humboldt, Lincoln, and Washington Parks, with more than 300,000 children participating.
Adults, too, participated in patriotic programs. Franklin K. Lane, Secretary if the Interior, delivered a 1914 Flag Day address in which he repeated words he said the flag had spoken to him that morning: "I am what you make me; nothing more. I swing before your eyes as a bright gleam of color, a symbol of yourself."
Inspired by these three decades of state and local celebrations, Flag Day - the anniversary of the Flag Resolution of 1777 - was officially established by the Proclamation of President Woodrow Wilson on May 30th, 1916. While Flag Day was celebrated in various communities for years after Wilson's proclamation, it was not until August 3rd, 1949, that President Truman signed an Act of Congress designating June 14th of each year as National Flag Day.
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Folding our Flag A very interesting, moving and little-known part of our military tradition.Do you know that at military funerals, the 21 gun salute stands for the sum of the numbers in the year 1776?
Have you ever noticed the honor guard pays meticulous attention to correctly folding the American flag 13 times? You probably thought it was to symbolize the original 13 colonies, but we learn something new every day!
The 1st fold of our flag is a symbol of life.
The 2nd fold is a symbol of our belief in eternal life.
The 3rd fold is made in honor and remembrance of the veterans departing our ranks who gave a portion of their lives for the defense of our country to attain peace throughout the world.
The 4th fold represents our weaker nature, for as American citizens trusting in God, it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in time of war for His divine guidance.
The 5th fold is a tribute to our country, for in the words of Stephen Decaur, "Our Country, in dealing with other countries, may she always be right; but it is still our country, right or wrong.
The 6th fold is for where our hearts lie. It is with our heart that We pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States Of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.
The 7th fold is a tribute to our Armed Forces, for it is through the Armed Forces that we protect our country and our flag against all her enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of our republic.
The 8th fold is a tribute to the one who entered into the valley of the shadow of death, that we might see the light of day.
The 9th fold is a tribute to womanhood, and Mothers. For it has been through their faith, their love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women who have made this country great has been molded.
The 10th fold is a tribute to the father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of our country since they were first born.
The 11th fold represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon and glorifies in the Hebrews' eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
The 12th fold represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in the Christians' eyes, God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit.
The 13th fold, or when the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost reminding us of our nation's motto, "In God We Trust."
After the flag is completely folded and tucked in, it takes on the appearance of a cocked hat, ever reminding us of the soldiers who served under General George Washington, and the Sailors and Marines who served under Captain John Paul Jones, who were followed by their comrades and shipmates in the Armed Forces of the United States, preserving for us the rights, privileges and freedoms we enjoy today.
There are some traditions and ways of doing things that have deep meaning.
In the future, you'll see flags folded and now you will know why.
Share this with the children you love and all others who love the symbol of "Liberty and Freedom".
My questions would be, if God really "granted" us rights, what do we need the government for?
The concept of "rights" is very confused. If men are endowed by their Creator with rights, why do we need a government to make sure we get them? We are endowed by our Creator with ears for hearing, and eyes for seeing, and legs for walking, and no government agency is required to make sure we get them. I guess our Creator intended to endow us with rights, but somehow got sidetracked, so now it is up to the government.
The purpose of government is to protect the rights of it's citizens, the unalienable rights granted to every human being.
You need to read more.
Well, that's true. We all need to read more, and that is never bad advice, so I thank you.
As for that portion of the Declaration of Independence, well, one of the punishments I enjoyed frequently in school was the privilege of copying portions of the Declaration, the Preamble to the Constitution, and other worthy documents. In fact, I got to enjoy this privilege so often, I could write my copies from memory. So, I am slightly familiar with these words.
In fact, I am so familiar with them that I have over the years, many years, given them a lot of thought. Well, you know, they sound very noble, and being couched in such grand language, they are very convincing, so convincing, in fact, that almost no one actually studies them to see if they really make sense.
For example, "We hold these truths to be self-evident...." The thing starts right off with a statement that any school boy could refute between TV programs. No truth is "self-evident." Some things are very simple, and it takes only a little thought to figure them out, but right after this phrase, this document goes on to express concepts that most of the world considers some of the most profound ever uttered; hardly the kind of "truth" one considers self-evident.
After all, if these noble concepts of rights and the proper role of government were really, "self-evident," how come they never occurred to anyone, except a handful of philosophers, in all the world in all of history until Jefferson and company.
If we pass that one over, we immediately bump into one of those self-evident truths, "all men are created equal." You have to wonder how anyone sober could write that with a straight face. There is not any sense in the whole world by which the expression, "all men are equal," whether they were created that way, or got that way by some other route, can possibly be made true. All men are unequal is true, and it is true under any way you would like to measure or consider it, and it can be demonstrated and explained to anyone who would really like to know it, but it is not "self-evident."
I suppose we can let that one go too, so we can get to the meat of the thing. And here we are with something real chewy, "they [men] are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights." Now, we have already considered this business of being endowed with things by our Creator, like limbs, and noses, and a taste for pretty women. In all other cases, to say God endows us with something means we already have it. But, rights, we'll see, are completely different from everything else God endowed us with.
But there is something else. These rights God endowed us with are not common every-day garden-variety rights, but unalienable rights. Unalienable, which nowadays is spelled "inalienable," means, "incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred." But this is very odd, as we shall see.
Just so we wouldn't have to guess what "unalienable" rights are, some examples are listed, "among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." I was always curious if there was in the mind of the writer a list of other "unalienable" rights meant by "among these," and if there were such a list, I wish he had listed them all. As it is, I cannot be sure the ones listed as examples are really the best ones or the most important. But, I have to let that go too, because we need to see this very odd thing about unalienable rights.
We have to remember, we have been endowed with these rights by God, so we must assume we already have them, like everything else He has endowed us with, and also, being "unalienable" rights, they are "incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred."
So why does the very next thing in this rebel's declaration say, "to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men...." This is simply amazing. It is either the hight of presumption or it contradicts everything else that has preceded it. If we already have these rights, because God has endowed us with them, and we cannot possibly loose them, because they are "unalienable," it is a presumption for men to from governments, or anything, to secure them. On the other hand, if a government is required to secure rights, they really never were "unalienable."
Nevertheless, even this we may, for now, ignore, because the rest is worse. Consider this whole clause, "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." There must be men on other planets, because this is not a description of any government ever found on this planet. These men were making way too much rope, and they weren't making them of sisal.
With the possible exception of America's Constitutional Government within the first few years, no government has ever been formed with an aim to securing rights to the governed. Think of almost anything else, and some government has probably been formed so someone could get it or do it, but securing rights to citizens was never one of them.
And what government ever had its power "derived from the consent of the governed? The American government, you say? Has the government ever once in your entire life asked your consent to do anything? Do you know any citizen it has ever asked the consent of? Do you think "voting" is giving consent to the government? Would you be interested in buying a bridge?
"Now stop. I have said what I had to say," as Oriana expressed it.
(It's one thing to read, it's another to read critically. We need to do that, too.)
Hank
Ha, childs play. In sixth grade I was required to write the entire history book longhand before being allowed back in school. I wasn't gonna do it but my Dad convinced me otherwise.
You're making it too difficult on yourself.
There are no inconsistencies except in your mind. Unless you are an anarchist the world has chosen to form governments to secure their rights. That some of those governments are or were horribly constructed and did not protect the rights of their citizens is simply a function of free will.
Some men and thus the governments they serve are evil and therefore fail to in their designated function which is to protect the rights of their citizens.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident...."
This phrase has a clear meaning which you distort by ignoring the word "hold". The authors hold the view that there are basic rights granted by a power other than man such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, ie: property. That you don't see this as truth has no bearing on whether or not they are self evident.
"all men are created equal."
Men are created equal as regards their unalienable rights. Simple stuff Hank. Either you believe that or you embrace Nietczke and might makes right. Some are more equal than others under the law. I don't think so Hank. But you are free to feel that way, it's your right.
"they [men] are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."
Or, in your case, they are either not rights but privileges afforded by men and thus alienable by the strongest man. In other words, all things are possible. Murder, rape, theft, whatever lights your pipe. You like the Mets, I like the Yankees.
"to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men...."
It contradicts nothing. Along with certain unalienable rights, first and foremost of which is the right to life, God also gave man the greatest gift of all, free will. Certain men choose that free will for self aggrandisement and murder, to steal and rape at will. Whatever feels good and perpetuates their gene pool.
Men, recognising that there are men of such bent, organise governments to protect the weak from the strong, the usurptation of their natural rights by evil. The Government's purpose is to enure that all men are treated equal under the law and that might doesn't make right. Ear size and skin color have nothing to do with it.
In my world.
Not at all. It is all quite enjoyable, and you are adding to my enjoyment by taking all this too seriously. That "screed" was rhetorical throughout, but it's intention was nevertheless quite serious. Most men have very little idea what their beliefs really mean.
Take the idea of "rights." What does it mean to have a "right to life"? Does it mean, you have a right to be kept alive at other's expense if you refuse to do what the requirements of your nature demand you do to live. If you refuse to produce, if you are determined to live on the product of other's efforts, does your, "right to life," give you the right to demand that others provide the requirements of your life?
If the word, "rights," has any meaning, here is what it must mean: rights are what you have if you are the only person in the world, or at least, the only person in a geographical area that no one else can get to. You have a right to do, say, or be anything you want, if you can. You do not have a right to life, only a right to do whatever is necessary to stay alive. You do not have a right to food, clothing, or shelter, but you are free to produce as much of these or any other things as you can. You do not have a right to an education, only a right to learn as much as you, by your own effort, are able to learn. You do not have a right to security or safety, only a right to find and employ means to protect yourself from the dangers in this world.
Somehow, most people believe "rights" mean, just because they are born into this world, they automatically deserve to have certain things and to be able to do certain things. This idea is contrary to the nature of the world, the nature of man, and all moral values. The only thing birth gives you, is the ability to learn what you need in this life to live successfully and happily and the ability to do those things you have learned.
The moment you begin to believe you, or anyone else, has a right to anything they have not produced, acquired, or earned by their own effort, you have justified the principle that some people exist to be the slaves and sacrificial animals of others, for whom the product of their efforts must be confiscated to provide what those others have a right to.
The word, "rights," is a bad word. Every liberal, socialist, collectivist, and totaleterian movement in the world is defended with the notion of "rights." The only possible meaning for rights that can be morally useful, is in the negative sense, "you do not have a right to what you have not earned," "you do not have a right to interfere in anyone else's life," "you do not have a right to live at anyone else's expense," " you do not have a right to harm, hurt, or damage anyone else's person or property," etc.
Hank
You leap from the right to life to socialism without stopping and passing go.
You're conflating rights, privileges and handouts and using entirely too many words to do it.
Oh, sorry!
Maybe you can tell me what you think "rights" are, without using too many words.
Otherwise, have a nice evening!
Hank
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