Kurds and Turks [Turkish Editorial]

Milliyet ^ | 4/11/2003 | Taha Akyol

[a_Turk]

Kurds and Turks

Deceased Iranian Kurdish Leader Abdurrahman Qasýmlu wrote in his book "Iranian Kurdistan" that historiacally the Kurds are mountain nomads, that for that reason they were able to protect their personalities and migrant clan systems, but that they for the same reason were unable to evolve socially.

This is the reason that the Kurds have no country.

Claude Cahen the historian writes in his book "Turks in Anatolia" that the Turks have historically been plains nomads, that they had therefore been able to span vast geographical extents in an organized fashion, that they were able to make the transition to urban life with greate ease. This is the reason why the Turks have been able to found state after state.. That one had a mountain character and the other plains, had prevented clashes throughout history and has made it easier for them to cooperate.

Ziya Gökalp had written that the Turks and Kurds had found it easy to turn towards each other, yet lacking the "desert" character had made it difficult for them to mix with the Arabs. Enter today's Irak.

***

The term KURDISTAN had first been used by the Selcuk Turks (1040 - 1408). It referred to a vast mountinous area in the east of Iran (yes, east). That's the original land of the Kurds. Later, in the shared geography of Islam, the clans mixed for centuries. The armies of Salahaddin Eyyubi were predominantly Turkish and Kurdish.

North of the Van lake was predominantly Armenian before the Turks entered Anatolia. Also according to Cahen, while the Turks were conquering Anatolia, the Kurds, along with their Oghuz (that's us, the Turks of Anatolia are Oghuz Turks) brethren spread across the plateaus east of the Euphrates. The plains further west, namely in inner and Aegean Anatolia did not inspire the Kurds as much as they did the Turks.

Graham Fuller, and even anti-Turk authors such as John Bulloc wrote that the Kurds were integrated in Turkey like they were no where else, and that Turks and Kurds were today by and large fully intermixed. The root cause of this is explained in the short recap of history I just provided.

The integration of Turk and Kurd became permanent with the large scale urbanization witnessed in Turkey which started in the 50s and gained serious momentum in the 80s.

***

To draw internal borders in a country such as Turkey where the children of an empire are integrated to such an extent is now impossible. Therefore the subject of Kurdish ethnicity in Turkey can not be seen as that of a seperate nation, but as a subject of democracy. Needles to say, to be a nation does not require ethnic singularity. Mutual historic and social integration, as well as concepts such as country and citizenship are far more important.

I don't feel foreign at all in Diyarbakir, but how about when I visit Tashkent (ancient Turkic)? Just like Turkish Kurds don't feel like strangers in Izmir, but how about when they visit Dohuk?

Therefore there are things more important than ethnicity. Why can Barzani (KDP) and Talabani (PUK) not integrate? When threatened by Talabani's occupation of Kirkuk, did Barzani not ask Turkey for help?!

In his book "The Kurds", David McDowal explains that Barzani is "Kirmanch" and that Talabani is "Sorani," and that these two dialects can never get along, and that the problem there is not a "party" problem, but that it is an enmity between two different ethnic clans..

Thus: Naturally ethnic identity is important, but concepts like country, citizenship, historic togetherness, social integration and shared fate are more important.

Irak is Irak, and Turkey is Turkey!

Certainly, as a realist, what is in Turkeys interest is in the interest of her 70 million. I look at everything in Irak fromthat perspective.

[samtheman]

1. A Free Tibetan Republic
2. An Independent Kurdish State
3. A Palestinian Homeland

Two of these three are legitimate goals. Only one is phoney.

[jackbob]

Regular Turks and Regular Kurds have nothing against each other.

Oh? If that were true, then the Turks would not have mobilized. Facts on the ground, contradict dreams in the sky. But I hope you future facts prove you right.

[jackbob]

"... ethnic identity is important, but concepts like country, citizenship, historic togetherness, social integration and shared fate are more important. "

More important? Sure, with regard to "shared fate." But as for the rest of it, how about "equally important"? And this is what it should "be all about."

[jackbob]

Lets see, if we change "3. A Palestinian Homeland" to Palestinian State, then all three are legitimate goals.

[a_Turk]

>> Facts on the ground, contradict dreams in the sky.

Facts on the ground are unknown to you pillow butted butter fingers.. LOL!

[samtheman]

Sorry.

Wrong answer.

There already is a Palestinian State.

Jordan.

[a_Turk]

What's more important in the USA? That you're of Italian, Irish, German, or English ethnicity? Or that you're all Americans?

Forget it man.. No need to answer..

[Mortimer Snavely]

Check out a_Turk's response above.

[jackbob]

Fact on the ground, Turks mobilized on the border. Unless you are saying its a lie that the news media has been spreading. If so, be a man and come out and say it. Or are you one of those cowards who insult when presented a fact that contradicts your child like dream?

Again, I hope you are right.

[jackbob]

Wrong answer? According to who? While World opinion, and the majority of American opinion, should not be a basis for deciding right from wrong, I think it can be safely taken at face value that next to no one considers Jordan and the future Palestinian State to be one and the same.

[aristotleman]

If that were true, then the Turks would not have mobilized. Facts on the ground, contradict dreams in the sky. But I hope you future facts prove you right.

Read before you spew. Regular Kurds and Regular Turks get along just fine. The Army and the Extremists are the ones doing the fighting. Normal people are caught between terror and military retaliation.

Stop suffering from a generalized hatred disease.

[a_Turk]

Look, the facts are quite a bit different than they are represented to you through the media. Yes we're mobilized, but it has nothing to do with Kurd hate.

And that you are not in touch with what is really going on is evident in your surprized behavior once your new buddies Talabani and Barzani entered the cities where 1) you told them not to go, and 2) where they are not among friends.

Soon as they went in they burnt every damned deed and all population records that were there.. Why? Figure it out.. Not to make life easier for you when you are ready to bring law and order back to the two cities up north I wager..

Talabani and Barzani are unelected feudal pseudo-monarchs who (not unlike the Kennedies LOL!) owe their existence to smuggling. Oh, and also to their daddies smuggling.

The best people in the world can be the most dangerous and the worst people on earth when led by the wrong people. Talabani and Barzani are such bad news. They harbor terrorists. Those are the facts on the ground....

[stripes1776]

Then how do you explain Switzerland? Nepal? Tibet? Peru?

Perhaps I can offer a few ideas about Switzerland:

• The Swiss (4 language groups) have not been nomadic for 2000 years, which is to say they became agrarian societies centuries before the Turks started their trek across Asia.
• Although there have been wars between these various language groups, Switzerland was formed mainly by regions petitioning the confederation in order to join it as a canton, which is to say it evolved through mutual consent, not empire building.
• None of these language groups has ever been Muslim.
• None of these language groups ever ruled an empire.
• These language groups established democratic institutions many centuries ago.

[Mortimer Snavely]

Kurdistan Will Poison Us

[Mortimer Snavely]

I'm going to leave you to it, abi, I've got a lot of stuff I've got to do, including eating a large steamed Dungeness crab.

[a_Turk]

>> Stop suffering from a generalized hatred disease.

LOL! Well put, my Greek friend :))

[a_Turk]

Bon apetit!

[aristotleman]

None of these language groups has ever been Muslim. None of these language groups ever ruled an empire.

Which reads:

1. Muslims are, generally speaking, unable to maintain states that include other ethnic/cultural groups.

2. People who have ruled empires have some kind of problem getting along with other people.

3. Europeans are more peaceful, negotiate and co-exist better.

Is this what you mean?

May I suggest reading up on Byzantine and Ottoman history?

[jackbob]

Stop suffering from a generalized hatred disease.

I don't know who you think I hate. Furthermore, I agree 100% that it is the military and extremists, that keep people from getting along everywhere in the entire world. I should however leave the military out of it. It is extremist and extremists (some of whom use the military as a tool).

What I do see however, is a population of people, and spokesman claiming to represent those people (most of whom I assume to be power hungry or worse glory hungry), making them selves heard, while presenting an appearance of popular support. I'm in no position to judge them as to the popularity of their publicly stated cause, until an adequate presentation from (not of) both sides has been adequately presented. I have very good cause to believe that the situation is any thing but peaceful. I hope I am wrong. I want to be wrong. But the evidence submitted thus far does not indicate that I am.

[a_Turk]

I like what you wrote.

Most of us back east are snakes in the grass. The smaller the more venomous.

The smaller snakes like to use others to do their bidding.

Gotto be very very suspicious all the time when dealing with those little snakes... Soap on a rope is well worth the investment.

I have LOTS of ethnic Kurdish friends in Turkey. I trust them with everything.

We had a Kurdish president, Turgut Ozal.

You can't even tell the difference between who's an ethnic Kurd and who is not.

I live in Ohio for the time being. I coach little league soccer on a voluteer basis.

One of the kids on my team is a Kurd. His father calls me coach - in Turkish that means "ram," a term of endearment which also shows pride.

Your media bites not only when it comes to bashing you and your war effort in Irak, but also when it comes to anything it reports about us and our ancient allies the Kurds.