In Search of Noah’s Ark

MSNBC ^ | July 21st, 2003 | Eve Conant

[LOL Clinton Was Impeached]

He found the Titanic. Now Robert Ballard hunts the quarry of a lifetime

July 21 issue — Ten thousand years ago, the Black Sea was a freshwater lake in the middle of a vast, low-lying basin. Its fertile valleys and lush pastures would have given Neolithic hunter-gatherers a perfect opportunity to make the leap to a more settled, agricultural society. But then disaster struck.

ABOUT 7,500 YEARS ago the ice age ended, the world’s climate warmed and the seas rose. The Aegean Sea breached a narrow strip of land, where the Strait of Bosporus is today, like a dam bursting. Seawater poured into the basin with the force of 200 Niagara Falls’, raising the water level six inches each day and sending the human settlers scurrying to the hills. The story of the Great Flood was told and retold, eventually in Genesis: “In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life... the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.”

Did Noah’s Flood really happen this way and in this place? Some people think it did. In August, underwater explorer Robert Ballard intends to put this theory to the test. To do it, the 60-year-old Connecticut-based geologist—better known for his elaborately publicized ship-hunting escapades, including the discovery of the Titanic in 1985—is going to have to push the state of deep-sea technology. He’s designed a remotely piloted submersible, Hercules, which he claims can excavate for signs of human civilization at depths of 300 meters with a precision approaching what archeologists can muster with human hands.

[LOL Clinton Was Impeached]

Going by the fairly recent "Noah's Ark" movie...

Didn't God perform certain miricles in order the help Noah? Like making sure the animals don't mate during the trip, and such. I also remember God cutting, stacking and marking all the wood so Noah and his children only had to "Build by numbers".

In other words: Miracle. (Which, of course ends any kind of debate on the subject.)

[BibChr]

You really do seem to have some problem with following a line of thought. Start with my original post, then your "reply," then mine to that. All will be clear.

Dan

[BibChr]

Answered.

[BibChr]

Already answered in my last post. The theological truth is, by design, inseparably embedded in the historical narrative. The narrative is in plain Hebrew prose. If the narrative is untrue, the theological claims are untrue. All the arguments in the world can't circumnavigate that fact.

Dan

[stuartcr]

See, it really is innate in a lot of us.

[TomB]

Answered.

Where?

[BibChr]

Oh, look; do you want to bring a flood of angry Roman Catholics down on me, or what? (c8

See my Biblical Christianity message board. A thread up at the top happens to be about that very issue.

Also, for a contast between Biblical Christianity and Roman Catholicism, this site has several helpful, readable essays. Start with Slide 1 and Slide 2 towards the bottom. Then you might want to read the testimony of the RC priest who ended up leaving Rome for Jesus.

Dan

[Ahban]

I had a young student who researced that, trying to debunk the account. He was young but quite brilliant. We assumed bugs and the really little stuff could live on floating debris. Subtracting out them and aquatic life forms cuts out over 90% of animal life right there. We also subtracted out the amphibians, and the roughly 15% of birds, mammals, and reptiles who are at home in the water.

The answer was something like 11,000 "kinds". No one knows for sure when this flood occured, but I would guess it could be fewer species than that since speciation by subtraction could occur in the intervening years. In other words, 6,000 species released 10-12K ago could split into 11,000 today.

[Remole]

But in the approach I am talking about (to get at the theological message of the Genesis Flood story), I am not suggesting that one deals in "a series of high-flown apothegms and theoretical musings"; I am saying that there is value--and I dare to say, value superior to arguments that insist upon the capacity of Noah's ark to carry two of every species--in reading the Flood accounts of other cultures in the Ancient Near East; noting carefully the parallels; and then noting carefully the differences; and then coming to realize the theological message of the Genesis flood story, as a deliberate polemic by Ancient Israel against one aspect of the culture that surrounded them.

To do that well, one is not engaging in vague theological musings; one is carrying out hard literary and historical analysis to get at sublime theological truths. One is also recognizing how God revealed His Will to human beings living at a particular time and place, by means of inspiring human authors to write a story well in order to clarify more carefully the faith of Ancient Israel vis-a-vis other cultures.

Compared to that sort of insight, what is the value of arguing about the presence of dinosaurs on the Ark?

[Remole]

"If the narrative is untrue, the theological claims are untrue."

___________________

Ah, I think we have reached the premise. I've not the time to delve into this discussion fully, but now I see where you are coming from.

[TomB]

We assumed bugs and the really little stuff could live on floating debris. Subtracting out them and aquatic life forms cuts out over 90% of animal life right there.

Unfortunately Genesis 7 specifically states that everything outside the Ark perished:

" And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. "

[Live free or die]

There's a black and white photo taken from an American plane back in the 40s that showed what looked like ruined timbers on Mt. Ararat. No expedition has ever been able to traverse the rugged terrain so its hard to confirm. But if its too hard to get to, its too hard to get away from, so this my not have been Noah's landing site. I've seen it and will try to post it, but what looks like the hull of a ship is really hard to ignore.

[LOL Clinton Was Impeached]

Oh, look; do you want to bring a flood of angry Roman Catholics down on me, or what?

Naaa...I just don't understand why one Christain group would bash another. Just looking for some reasoning...

Of course I don't get all the muslim bashing around here either...For two basic reasons...

1) All terrorists may be muslim (At least the vast, VAST majority) but not all muslims are terrorists (Which leads to number 2)...

2) If all 1.6 billion muslims in the world are "Evil" as many here claim, they sure aren't very motivated.

[agrace]

The second testement was real. Real peple who existed. The first testement is people exxagerated.

Then how do you explain that Jesus referred to a number of OT people, such as Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Isaiah...

[Dataman]

"Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them"

Genesis 7:13ff:

It looks like God loaded the ark.

[BibChr]

The problem is that the whole is framed in the narrative. If one asks what should be the primary interpretive question — What was the intent and understanding of the author? — all the hard evidence affirms that they were writing what they meant to be taken as history. On what basis is our knowledge superior?

But the question about Jesus is the fundamental one.

And now, in closing, an illustration.

You ask me, "Do you trust your wife? Is she faithful? How do you know whether she's faithful?"

I say, "Oh, I have no doubt of it whatever. Once, during a miserably rough spot in our marriage, a really attractive coworker of hers befriended her, and gradually warmed in his approach to her, eventually trying to involve her in an immoral relationship. She turned him down so hard and fast, I think he's still reeling from it now, twenty years later. In fact, she knocked him on his butt, and still has the tooth that flew across the room! So, yeah, I know she's faithful."

You say, "Wow, that's quite a story. And all that really happened?"

I shrug and say, "No. But I still know she's faithful."

Leaving unanswered the question, "How?"

Dan
PS -- I did make that up!

[TomB]

It looks like God loaded the ark.

They still had to get on, and they only had seven days, so how did it happen?

[BibChr]

You look at the links I gave you, your questions about RCism versus Biblical Christianity will be answered, without even making your head hurt. Probably! (c8

Dan

[LOL Clinton Was Impeached]

Yeah...I think I remember seeing that. Of course I would like to see it again if you can find it...

[Dataman]

I am saying that there is value--and I dare to say, value superior to arguments that insist upon the capacity of Noah's ark to carry two of every species--

You just shot your own foot off with that sentence. Find for me one person that insists on two of every species. I'll be waiting.

and then coming to realize the theological message of the Genesis flood story, as a deliberate polemic

BTW, what are your scholarly qualifications that allow you to make such a claim? You can't have any background related to ancient lit or the Bible since the 19th century hypothesis that the Genesis story was borrowed has been thoroughly debunked. IOW, if you were up on the scholarship in this area, you wouldn't have made such a claim.