Posted on 12/08/2004 11:08:38 PM PST by Mike10542
Hey fellow freepers, having been swept up in the battle of conservatives first liberals and believers in God vs. non-beleivers I clearly have chosen the right side here (hence me writing on Free Republic). The alignment of Jews like myself and many fellow Christians is one that I feel is very necesary to win the war against evil and have peace in our time. Although I choose to ignore all the leftists and others who try to break up this loving partnership by saying "They are only on your side becuase they want the Jews in control of Jerusalem so Christ returns," I am looking to explore what the Bible really teaches about the Jewish fate from the Christian perspective. It is hard to find what the majority opinion is because the internet is, well, the internet. What I have made out so far is that during rapture I beleive 2/3's of Jews are killed, but one third survive. So my questions are:
1) What do the 2/3's of Jews die from (war, just happens????)
2) What happens to the remaning 1/3 of Jews after they survive?
3) Do any of this remaining 1/3 of Jews make it past the final judgement of God (some interpertations say no, others say the remaining Jews are allowed to pass once accepting God and I think Christ)
I truly beleive in my Jewish fate as I have been raised Jewish, but my mom is Christian. So each religion I respect and believe are good. Ultimately, I hope us Jews and Christians both make it together to the promised land (and only the Muslims are sent to hell!)
Thanks for all your answers. Also, feel free to direct me to anywhere where I can learn more about this subject.
That places the priest (a sinner) above the Church.
The biggest problem with Orthodoxy today is that far too many people become much like you seem to be recently
So, it's not your place to determine if the priest did something wrong by excommunicating a woman suspected of being "unclean" for three years. but it is your place to say that I am a problem?
What happens in life is that sometimes people make mistakes
Every day, MarMema, not just sometimes. Even when you don't think you are.
Some have had experiences in Orthodox churches which did not leave one with great feelings afterward
They must be far and few in between, and I certainly have not experienced anything like that. I have encountered some arrogance and pride, but then who is without it?
I personally see and hear priests who come out from the altar and bow to the parishioners asking forgiveness for their sins
That's very kind of him. My point. Perhaps he should include his as well?
Looking for perfection outside themselves but forgetting to glance occasionally in the mirror and see their own imperfections
I hold the Church and clergy to higher standards. You should too. I do not think the Body and Blood of Christ is an Orthodox prerogative. That's not asking for perfection, MarMema. When I say the Church doesn't save us, God does, I reiterate that we are not perfect lest we should forget and begin to act as if we are. The Church is good at preaching the word of God but not living it, and that goes for the clergy and laity.
We are hiding behind man-made rituals as if they were something holy. We are hiding behind physical signs as if they are something we own and others can't have. That's not what Jesus taught.
You need healing, imo, and badly
Wow! Exorcism no doubt? Thank you, doctor. Now I know. As long as you know that, should I quote you from above, "it is not my place to determine this anyway....nor is it yours, even if you think so," lest we misunderstand each other. You seem to be perfectly at home (aka it is your place) to determine what I lack.
I think you have never broken with you Catholic mindset, where pray, pay and obey is the rule. I am sorry, MarMema, it must be comforting to feel driven by someone else, but I prefer to do the driving myself. I question, because I believe. I see Christ on the one hand and the Church on the other. When the Church begins to live in Christ as much as it talks Christ, I am sure I will feel closer. I doubt that it will be any time soon.
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." (John 6:51)
It is not ours to decide who eats the Bread of Life. He offered it to all.
But I do not. That would be clericalism.
How would you know? Which parish have you attended regularly over the last few years?
That's very kind of him. My point. Perhaps he should include his as well?
Um. Kosta. That is what they are doing. Asking the parishioners to forgive them for their sins. Have you not been to liturgy in a long time that you could follow?
The clergy come out and face the parishioners and say "Forgive me my brothers and sisters, and pray for me, a sinner".
In the Orthodox church I think we also do the driving ourselves. We just don't drive alone on empty roads. In the dark.
You cannot take the act of receiving the Mysteries out of the liturgy as if it were a lone thing. The entire service is an act of thanksgiving and worship - of a united community. Dissection is of a western mindset.
You are stuck on the physical and outwardly religion and not the substance of faith. Your parish, just as any other Orthodox parish, refuses Eucharist to the non-Orthodox. I call that non-Christian. It goes for the whole Church. It has nothing to do with what parish you go to.
The Orthodox Church, not just your or my parish, converts Catholics by the same ritual which was originally devised for the Arian heretics: chrismation. By doing so, the Church is saying Catholics are heretics of the worst kind.
The Church accepts Monophysite Coptics to communion, and their concept of Jesus Christ is radically different from the Orthodox or Catholic. Yet they are "worthy" of our Eucharist and the Catholics are not. Talk about arrogance and un-Christian praxis!
The gentiles were to be grafted unto the Jews, not the other way around.
Judgmental, MarMema, very judgmental.
I am stuck on the fact that you say the church doesn't live Christ, but you never have the chance to personally witness this supposed lack of Christ. It's an experiential faith but you are never there to experience it. You are making your condemnations from non-experience, of an experiential faith.
Kind of silly, don't you think?
What makes you think that?
Your wording wasn't clear -- can't be too sure nowadays what people say and do. There are so many parishes where everyone gets communion without a confession. So, anything is possible.
1) God says that those who SEEK HIM SHALL FIND HIM--presumeably those who seek Him with an authentic earnest heart. I believe that includes anyone who will earnestly seek Him with an authentic earnest heart. Somehow, sooner or later--if even on their death bed--I believe God will reveal Himself to them.
2) Evidently 2/3 of mankind--not just of Jews--will die in these end times which quite a number of Christians believe we are at least in the beginning birth pangs of. The deaths evidently come from plagues and war as well as earthquakes and other natural disasters.
3) Daniel, Ezekiel the shorter prophets; Revelation; Mat 24 . . . Isaiah; etc. have passages that pertain to the end times. Daniel 6-9 or some such. Been a while since I've read it. Ezek, I think about 37. The Bible can be very cryptic about such things. I don't believe anyone has it all figured out yet regardless of how many books they write trying to impress us that they do. I believe that when God wants it clear for us in detail, He'll make it that way. Until then, we are to be about the Father's business.
4) Jews being in Jerusalem is God's doing. Their being there or not being there is not going to slow down or speed up God's timetable at all. It IS, after all, GOD'S TIMETABLE. He waits for no man when He wants to move emphatically. He could supernaturally draw all the Jews from all over the world to Jerusalem instantly as Philip in the NT traveled by Holy Spirit. Regardless, Jews will be there and are there because of God's doings--not their own, per se. imho.
5) Bible prophecy is soooooooooooo fascinating seeing so much of it come to pass with the daily headlines since Israel became a nation again in a day as prophecied in the Old Testament. And also as predicted there, they are using Hebrew--what had been essentially a very minority fading, dead language.
Anyway--getting sleepy. Cheers. Feel free to ask questions. Sometimes I can answer a few of them! LOL
You might also be interested in this thread--though it has a lot of naysayer noise and diatribe on it:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1274030/posts
ABOUT: PROPHETIC SIGNS OF THE END TIMES.
GOD'S BEST TO YOU AND YOURS.
OH, the survivors will have been protected by God and will be placed by Him where He wants them, I suspect. The MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH--rather literally, it seems.
BLESSINGS,
Well, dialogue has led to a greater belief of unity after all. It's a good thing. Have you ever been to a Coptic service, btw?
Yes I am sure it was my fault. I am sorry for not being more clear.
"I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life." (John 5:47)
Who are you to judge if someone is in the dark?
What made you think I was judging someone as being in the dark?
Your bitterness, anger, and accusations are, hmmm, of Christ? You think? Or do you not see those things in yourself?
How would you, personally, describe your above words? As from a person at peace?
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