His name was +Andrew. We know him as the "First Called". I take it Americans like Washer think they know Christ better and can do a better job than +Andrew in a place like Romania?
Posted on 12/30/2009 12:56:16 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege
Are you lecturing Kolo on the Faith? Kolo is perhaps the greatest source of information on Christianity that participates on FR. Your positions are ill informed and provincial. You express no understanding of the Faith, the Fathers, the Apostles, or Jesus the Christ. Grandstanding lectures do not communicate the Faith. They only elevate the speaker to the position that the televangelists currently occupy.
One of the hallmarks of heretics in ancient times was their overwhelming arrogance. I am not surprised therefore to hear that some American heretic preacher presumes to know the salvation status of other people. Of course he knows, right?
The Church will be here long after Washer and his heresies have gone the way of all flesh.
This pattern is so typical of American "missionaries" and their heretical practices in Eastern Europe. Of course they bribe poor, hungry people with their money, money that could be used to alleviate hunger and misery in this country but of course that would be wrong, maybe it would make the American poor "dependent"! No, better to slither into a country whose Christianity extends back 1700+ years and like a thief in the night, steal souls and sow discord, do what one can to destroy an ancient culture and replace it with the dreck of American Protestantism!
Can you send me the list of heresies that modern Protestants are embracing? I’m a non-denominational Christian (though of Protestant influence). I am always curious about the heresies that are being embraced.
Unless you wish to brand all Protestants heretics. In which case I’m not interested. Thanks!
The downfall of communicating via internet forum is that the tone of what one posts can be misinterpreted. I hope I didn’t come off as preachy or condescending. I apologize if I did.
I of course am not questioning Kolokotronis’ knowledge of church history. I do want to know though, to what extent do you both think “labels” play. I bring up the example of Senator Ted Kennedy, who was a practicing Catholic—yet he lived a life so contrary to the teachings of Rome. All the Cardinals at his funeral however pronounced him to be in Heaven. On what grounds?
Russian PM Vladimir Putin is “Russian Orthodox” — he goes to church, he even has a spiritual mentor. Yet, you look at his life and you see him attached to major corruption and even the imprisonment and deaths of people who threatened his authority. But is he still “Christian” because he goes to the right church?
As I said before, Obama is “Christian.” Hillary Clinton is “Methodist.” Britney Spears is “Baptist.” —but what do those labels ACTUALLY mean with regard to the eternal state of an individual soul?
Preachers like Paul Washers and other Bible-believing Christians don’t believe “religion” saves. Only true repentance of sin and saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, on a personal level can make one right with God. Washer believes the majority of self-identified Evangelicals in this country are not truly in the faith, have distorted the BIble, and are preaching a false, watered-down Gospel.
Kolo thinks Washer and other missioaries like him may be preaching some false American heresy to Peruvians and Romanians. That’s why I urge you both to watch the video for yourselves to see what is being taught. And then give your opinions and explain what you believe is wrong with it in light of your knowledge of what Jesus taught and in light of historical Christianity.
So, IF you are still interested. Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYLUpHQaiE
Anyhow, Happy New Year to both of you.
Perhaps they knew something we don't? Perhaps the Pope knew something and told it to the Cardinal Archbishop of Boston. In any event, none of us here have any knowledge at all of the state of Kennedy's soul at his death, or whether or not God will show mercy on him. That, CP, is far, far above our pay grades.
"Russian PM Vladimir Putin is “Russian Orthodox” — he goes to church, he even has a spiritual mentor. Yet, you look at his life and you see him attached to major corruption and even the imprisonment and deaths of people who threatened his authority. But is he still “Christian” because he goes to the right church?"
Putin is a sinner, perhaps a great one, but I don't really know. I do know this, if he is a great sinner, he will find that The Church is a hospital for sick souls, souls which are healed by God's uncreated energies when the soul opens itself to that grace through repentance. He is a Christian because his baptism made him one. Whether or not he is a good one is a matter for him and his spiritual father.
"Kolo thinks Washer and other missioaries like him may be preaching some false American heresy to Peruvians and Romanians.
What I think is nothing original and far from new. In the 5th century, our God Bearing Father in the Faith +Isidore of Pelusium, having dealt with exactly the sort of heretics now infesting Eastern Europe, wrote this:
"Just as the fishermen hide the hook with bait and covertly hook the fish, similarly, the crafty allies of the heresies cover their evil teachings and corrupt understanding with pietism and hook the more simple, bringing them to spiritual death."
How about this: I’ll provide a list and definition of heresies from the first millennium and you evaluate them and see what you think fits in with Christianity and which doesn’t.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm is a good treatise on heresy. Basically, heresy is that which, while professing faith in God, substitutes elements of the Faith for others which are not of the Faith.
He speaks Spanish very well. I wonder how long it took for him to learn the language that well.
Also, I wonder if he speaks Romanian that well.
Well he did spend 10 years in Peru, practically living in the jungles. He goes all around the world and in places where he doesn’t know the language, he has translator that speaks along with him as he gives his sermons. If you want to see how that works, here’s a video of him in a church in the Netherlands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL5qX2HGO8Y
Be blessed :)!
Ah, here’s one from Romania:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W94LSNEe-Rg
It’s incredibly moving to think about how God is truly the God of ALL people on earth and that the Gospel message transcends language, race, ethnicity...To this day, there are languages the BIble has not been translated to! Christ truly breaks all barriers and the power of the Cross knows NO boundaries yet the path is so narrow. Christ is the ONLY way. “There is only ONE mediator between God and man...”
They did? Catholics don't believe souls go to heaven immediately after death but to Purgatory. So, did you just make that up? And just how many cardinals were at his funeral Mass? I thought the Mass was served by an archbishop.
And why did you mention Ted Kennedy if not to perhaps suggest that, having been a "bad" Catholic, he is probably somewhere very hot...Do you not remember David? What did he do to win God's favor? It wasn't his faith. Even the devil believes. It was his repentance. You don't know what Kennedy did in his last days, so judging is not yours or anyone else's business.
The Church is not there to judge, but to petition God for mercy for the departed's soul.
Also their love for Christ extends only where it's safe. Romania is safe, and so is Peru. But you won't find them in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia or Iran, etc. Becoming a "victim" for Christ is not on their repertoire. It's much safer to evangelize the already baptized.
You wrote:
“The Church will be here long after Washer and his heresies have gone the way of all flesh.”
Boy, ain’t that the truth!
Secondly, some of the most moving stories of conversion and evangelism are coming out of China, Indonesia, and IRAN, where believers literally face death and the ruin of their livelihoods for refusing to deny their faith in Jesus Christ.
Recently, an American missionary from Arizona got detained by North Korean authorities for coming into the country. The news was receiving national coverage until the Flight 253 chaos ensued.
Thirdly, I guess your standards do not apply to Paul "the propagandist" and all the crazy apostles who were martyred in the most brutal of ways for attesting to the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.
http://www.persecution.com/
Uh, where were Paul Washer and the other johnny-come-lately-I-think-I’ll-build-on-somone-else’s-foundation Protestants when Perus was first Christianized more than 400 years ago?
Come to think of it, will Paul Washer be as long remembered or honored for his witness as this Peruvian Christian?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_de_Porres
For some reason I can’t help but think that Paul Washer impact will basically evaporate before he’s even dead.
“First off, there is major persecution of Christians in parts of Eastern Europe, especially where traces of communism still ring true—such as Belarus.”
There is no persecution of The Church in Eastern Europe. There are prosecutions of illegal organizations which are attempting to undermine the Christian cultures of those countries by teaching strange and heretical beliefs.
“Secondly, some of the most moving stories of conversion and evangelism are coming out of China, Indonesia, and IRAN, where believers literally face death and the ruin of their livelihoods for refusing to deny their faith in Jesus Christ.”
And the blow dried American preachers with their “bring your own snake” theology, do they “literally face death” with their flocks?
“Thirdly, I guess your standards do not apply to Paul “the propagandist” and all the crazy apostles who were martyred in the most brutal of ways for attesting to the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
They weren’t cowards, CP....
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
There that at least is in context. Your translation is not a very good one. Be that as it may Why not include the first part of Matthew chapter 7? Well I know why because then you would have to say that you are indeed busy judging the actions and relationship with God of others. Take care of the mote in your own eye
His name was +Andrew. We know him as the "First Called". I take it Americans like Washer think they know Christ better and can do a better job than +Andrew in a place like Romania?
To give you an idea, the #1 song on the music charts right now, not just in the US, but in Europe includes the following lyrics: "Jesus can't save you and life starts when the church ends." Our cultures drink sin as if it were water and without shame. There are probably people who sing along to that song on the radio--on the way to "church."
We have strayed so far from the Word of God and have turned Jesus into nothing more than an accessory or an afterthought. He has become caricatured that people have no fear of Him and don't feel compelled to honor him--so they instead replace him with idols. Think the election of the Obamessiah. Even though the Bible makes clear, that Jesus is either our EVERYTHING -- or he is nothing. Faith demands a full surrendering of our life and will to Christ. His words and teachings should come should move our hearts and stir our spirits and drive our thoughts and actions, but to many, they are just dry excerpts of dead orthodoxy. "The Word of God is living and active," as the Bible reminds us. "Grass withers, flowers fade, but the Word of God stands forever."
While many preachers in America are drowning in greed, sin, false teachings, at the expense of deceiving people's souls and leading them closer to hell. People such as Paul Washer have put aside their law degrees, and have chosen instead to use their gifts for the advancement of the kingdom of Christ and to proclaim Christ's glory in the outermost reaches of the world, parts ravaged by both war and poverty. They do this often with very little funding and resources, but full reliance on GOD. Washer, now back from South America, is now making an impact on the church in America, and has especially struc a chord with the youth--who have been hungering for the hard truths for a long, long time.
If you are ever curious as to what preachers like him, Matt Chandler, John Piper, etc...are saying and would like to challenge these so called "heresies" you speak of--then just youtube their sermons for yourself. But who cares about what they have to say...all that matters is what God has to say through His Word.
I pray you all have a very Christ-filled New Year!
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