Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
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"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
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Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
Two Comments
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
1. I stand by the Soylent white wafer.
2. It communicates accurately, from my Proddy perspective, some of the outrageous assertions and heretical notions made by grossly heretical RC authors and pontificators hereon.
3. I have generously noted that in terms of the Lord’s Supper and the Body and Blood of Jesus, SOMETIMES, God may well operate ACCORDING TO ONE’S FAITH, SO BE IT UNTO THEM. This was ignored by maybe all but Mad Dawg.
4. So, on the one hand, I have a MUCH MORE GENEROUS attitude toward the “REAL PRESENCE” than the other frequent Proddys hereon.
5. HOWEVER, given so much horrifically heretical hogwash, the Soylent white wafer also communicates the dreadful mentalities and heretical constructs I see pontificated so chronically hereon.
6. And, IT IS AT LEAST AS LOGICAL AS SO MUCH OF Y’ALL’S HERETICAL HOGWASH. IF THE BELIEVERS IN CHRIST SHARE IN HIS SUFFERINGS AND ARE PART OF THE BROKEN BODY OF CHRIST—THEN SOYLENT WHITE WAFER IS QUITE ACCURATE, INDEED. DEAL WITH IT.
7. I don’t believe I said anything about Mary’s toilet activities. I certainly don’t recall such.
8. GOD IS HOLY. HE IS NOT PRISSY. The Rabid Clique RC’s hereon seem to maximize PRISSY and have no concept, much less practice of THE HOLINESS OF GOD. It is my duty and sometimes my perverse delight to shred prissy hogwash.
9. Deal with it, or don’t. Y’all’s choice.
10. I don’t know if Holy Spirit has been round y’all’s group this century, much less this year or week. I’m skeptical y’all could distinguish His Breath from brimstone.
Essentially then, what the Roman Catholics are saying is the the host (bread) and the wine are physical symbols of a spiritual reality.
Since the bread and the wine to not change in physical substance into literal flesh and literal blood, there can be no other option.
WHICH, of course, is a catch-22 for them.
Because Proddys say it’s essentially spiritual/symbolic.
So, their weasel words end up in the Proddy position in more ways than one. LOL.
You would be well advised to ponder these matters and renounce all that is non biblical including the 'Jangling Tactics". I do not believe biblical Jesus utilized this tactic , but I don't know about space cadet jesus. Look it up maybe in the Koran.
Will return tonight so save your questions and comments and I will try to assist.
No, that isn't what Catholics believe at all.
At the consecration, the bread and wine cease to exist.
What appears to be bread and wine are the glorified Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
There is no bread. There is no wine.
Those have ceased to exist.
What remains is the literal, physical Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
But this appears under the appearance (the accidents) of bread and wine.
If you object that you don't believe this, or it doesn't make sense to you, I understand. Only someone with the supernatural gift from God of Catholic faith can accept this truth (although anyone who claims to really understand it isn't saying something true - there's a reason why it's called a mystery).
sitetest
Perhaps you could discern from these space cadets if space cadet jesus believes in the Filioque and other points of contention. Perhaps the Patriarch could setttle this dispute.+
And do not besmirch the mental health of any Freeper. That is a personal attack.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
This slippery
schizophrenic ?position? [They don’t actually take a STABLE POSITION—more like a moving target]
regarding THE REAL PRESENCE.
Given all their pronouncements about Mary, one would think they’d morph her into the Soylent White Wafer wholesale.
I mean—she’s declared PART OF THE HYPOSTATIC UNION OF THE TRINITY. Being part of the Soylent White Wafer would be the tiniest of details beyond that.
Or, given all their pronouncements about THEIR EXCLUSIONIST LITTLE CLUB BEING THE EXLUSIVE BODY OF CHRIST . . . that they’d proudly proclaim SOYLENT WHITE WAFER and that Proddys had no part in the sufferings of Christ’s Broken Body nor in His Lord’s Supper and therefore could not DARE to construe themselves as sharing anything, any part in the Soylent White Wafer . . . which they sort of do and sort of don’t.
However, given their puffed up outrage and prissy pronouncements about it all . . . MAYBE, JUST MAYBE they can get some hint at HOW OFFENSIVE ALL THEIR MARY MANGLING HERETICAL BLASPHEMOUS, IDOLATROUS HOGWASH IS TO PRODDYS.
If you’re going to accuse people of believing something, try and get it right before you start.
You and your cohorts who have had a field day with misinterpreting and quote mining Quix’s comments, have made absolute fools of yourselves, and revealed yourselves to be disingenuous in your dealings with others whose eternal destiny you claim to be so concerned with.
Nobody is going to take you seriously when you can’t deal with someone courteously over something that you didn’t understand.
A simple, *Are you saying that you think Jesus was bioengineered by space aliens, or am I reading this wrong?* to Quix would have diffused this whole fiasco by the FRoman Catholics on this thread. But it wouldn’t have been nearly the fun you guys obviously have had with it.
It says more about you and your character than is does about him because ANYONE with any reading comprehension can see clearly what is going on.
You’ve all made fools of yourselves for not dealing with it in the more mature fashion of trying to clear it up first.
AYE. AYE.
sigh.
Then it isn't the literal Body and Blood of Christ. If it's changed in form, it's changed in form and ought to be detectable. If there's no physically or chemically detectable change in the physical substance, than it hasn't been changed and it's not the LITERAL body and blood of Christ.
Saying otherwise is wanting to have your cake and eat it too. It's not possible to have it both ways.
THANKS FOR YOUR KIND AND ACCURATE WORDS.
“Reason is reason”
Right. I take that as a validation of my point? God and man live in a universe of reason?
OF COURSE
THEY WANT THEIR CAKE/WAFER AND EAT IT TOO!
They don’t treasure the
2nd STATION OF THE STATIONS OF THE WHITE HANKY SO MUCH FOR NOTHING!
TO WIT:
2.THE BLACK/WHITE ICON OF DUPLICITY, THE DOUBLE STANDARD DOOFUS FLIP-FLOP DANCE
Can you spell
R A T I O N A L I Z A T I O N?
The Utopian (unconstrained) vision holds that man has not yet achieved his full moral potential, and that that potential is essentially perfectible. It is "foolish and immoral choices explain the evils of the world - and that wiser or more moral and humane social policies are the solution."
Just catching up, but great post from Thomas Sowell. Just looking at the different visions you see Calvinist vs. Arminian.
Our Utopian Romanist FRiends believe that things should be moderated by "reason" as dictated by select elites.
Here's a chicken or egg question that goes with this. Is the authoritarian structure and on going desire to control Christianity a product of the ruling class of this church when it emerged as the dominant church in the west, or is it because they saw no other way to achieve the "full moral potential" of people.
That is absolutely NOT what Catholics understand to be true.
Since the bread and the wine to not change in physical substance into literal flesh and literal blood, there can be no other option.
Do you believed that God is some how restricted to the confines of what you are able to perceive? No doubt there were a great many people in Jerusalem a couple thousand years ago saying, "Jesus of Nazareth can't possibly be God, He looks just like everyone else."
It fallacious to believe that a change must be immediately visible to the naked eye to be real.
I've posted this several times before, but I will post it again because it is important. Ignatius of Antioch was an Apostolic Father, a student of Saint John, probably Saint Peter and possibly the child in Matthew 18:2. As a prisoner awaiting martyrdom he wrote several epistles; though the validity of some of these epistles is very questionable, the one I am quoting from has NEVER been disputed. You should note that the FIRST attribute he cites of heretics is their denial of the Real Presence and he wrote this no later than 108 AD.
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnæans
Chapter VII — Let us stand aloof from such hereticsThey abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that ye should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.
They are ashamed of the cross; they mock at the passion; they make a jest of the resurrection. They are the offspring of that spirit who is the author of all evil, who led Adam by means of his wife, to transgress the commandment, who slew Abel by the hands of Cain, who fought against Job, who was the accuser of Joshua the son of Josedech, who sought to “sift the faith” of the apostles, who stirred up the multitude of the Jews against the Lord, who also now “worketh in the children of disobedience; from whom the Lord Jesus Christ will deliver us, who prayed that the faith of the apostles might not fail, not because He was not able of Himself to preserve it, but because He rejoiced in the pre-eminence of the Father. It is fitting, therefore, that ye should keep aloof from such persons, and neither in private nor in public to talk with them; but to give heed to the law, and the prophets, and to those who have preached to you the word of salvation. But flee from all abominable heresies, and those that cause schisms, as the beginning of evils.
As I have answered before, the unifying belief is our belief in The Gospel with no "ands", "buts", or "maybe's".
It is a clear distinction.
I think my “job” is to engage the person and not necessarily the message. I have slammed my front door in the face of door-to-door proselytizers while shouting “buzz off you heretics” (or words to that effect) only to think “well that worked out well” immediately thereafter. I grant you that after I walked across the yard and apologized profusely I was told that I was obviously a reprobate and damned to hell so it didn’t matter.
Of course I wanted to ask what the heck they thought they were doing wandering around bothering people but I was afraid the answer would boil down to “we’re poaching the elect” so I just walked away praying.
I believe we have the truth, or rather the Truth has us and nothing anyone else can write can change that. I can change it by abandoning the truth for pride or self-righteous indignation. This is my personal danger and applies to no one else, it’s a daily struggle and I usually fail.
Detectable to whom?
Are you suggesting that molecular changes are always visible to the human eye?
Are you suggesting that the Body of Christ must look like what you think It should look like?
Did Jesus Christ LOOK different to those who accepted Him than He did to those who rejected Him?
If there's no physically or chemically detectable change in the physical substance, than it hasn't been changed and it's not the LITERAL body and blood of Christ.
I suggest you research Eucharistic miracles.
And what do you mean by "chemically detectable"? A century ago mankind was unable to split an atom, now scientists can. Are you suggesting that if something isn't scientifically provable as of September 10, 2010, that it is false?
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