LDS View of God Contradicts the Bible

Utah Lighthouse Ministry.org ^

[Colofornian]

LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...

It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).

LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:

"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).

LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:

"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).

LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:

"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).

LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:

"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)

LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:

"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).

LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:

"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)

LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:

"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).

LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:

"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).

As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:

"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]

Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:

"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son ­ embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]

LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:

"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).

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What the Bible Says About God

1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.

"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12

"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6

"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25

The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.

2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.

"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4

"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9

"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17

"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5

"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142

The LDS god achieved holiness.

3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.

"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28

"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5

The LDS god had to learn everything.

4. ALL POWERFUL

"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6

"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20

The LDS god attained his power.

5. OMNIPRESENT

"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1

"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24

The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.

6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION

"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24

"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6

"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6

The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.

7. NO OTHER GODS

"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11

"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8

"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9

"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8

The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.

For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:

Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science

[metmom]

My word. What a horrid thread.

And the LDSers complain about *anti*’s (Mormon)????!!!!??!?!?!?!

How much worse can it get than implying that some FReepers could be the ones who started the fire?

I could just see the fallout if the shoe were on the other foot. A fire at an Evangelical church and some Evangelical suggested that some Mormon FReeper started it.

[greyfoxx39]

I believe that there is some sabotage being attempted at FR. Since the argument can't be won with facts, some are trying to get FR seen as a "Hate" site.

This guy boasted he was going to "shut down" FR a year or so ago, and since he failed to do that he has been posting THIS kind of garbage

and it appears that some of the FR mormons are following his lead.

[restornu]

That guy is way behind WND has always been anti LDS as far back as 2004 when RazorMouth would write scathing anti LDS stuff....

[Godzilla]

and it appears that some of the FR mormons are following his lead.

The Nauvoo Expositor wrote the truth concerning the behind the scenes life of Joseph Smith and his inner circle. Smith ordered it to be destroyed. It appears that some things never change - except that no one is going to burn FR down.

[Gamecock]

or Presbyterians

Someone say Presbyterians?

[MHGinTN]

Allow me to be the fourth one on this thread to offer to your childish demand, James is correct in what he wrote to fellow Jewish converts to Christ.

Your specious spin on what he wrote and taught I will not agree to, your momronism spin being opposite what James taught which agrees with the rest of the New Testament teaching that faith comes then works instituted by the leadership of the Holy Spirit within the beliver follow, else the faith is not 'faithing'.

With James I agree, and it was a journey of deep study that lead me to that agreement, but with your heretical interpretation of what James said I will not agree, your childish insults notwithstanding. Is there something else you need help with, bless your little heart?

[metmom]

Oh fer crying out loud. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn’t mean it’s hate.

In that case, every time you disagree with someone, you are a hater, too.

It works both ways.

Accusing people of *hate* to shut down the discussion and keep someone from expressing their opinion of you or your beliefs is a liberal tactic right out of their play book.

And it’s used primarily by the gays. Don’t fall for it and follow their intellectually dishonest practices and strategies. You’re better than that.

[Jim Robinson]

Looks like a liberty-hating anti-freeper from my perspective.

Viva la revolucion!!

[metmom]

LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being: "It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).

But it IS ridiculous because a 5 year old can see the flaws in logic. If God was once a finite being then He isn't God and the Bible lies when it says that He's eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.

My choice here. Believe The Bible, which makes sense and is consistent, or believe Brigham Young, how doesn't make sense and isn't consistent.

It's a no brainer.

[greyfoxx39]

That guy is way behind WND has always been anti LDS as far back as 2004 when RazorMouth would write scathing anti LDS stuff....

Did you even read the post? "WorldNetDaily is becoming, much like the conservative web site Free Republic: a forum for anti-Mormons."

So did you REALLY think the link was posted because of WND?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Christ died for the UNGODLY” Placemarker

[Stourme]

[metmom]

The words of Jesus Himself.
John 6: 28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Works will only result in condemnation. They can’t save you. If you sin only once, you are guilty of the whole Law. You can live a perfect live from now on and it’s not going to do any good because of that once.
THAT’S why works don’t save, because you have to keep the WHOLE Law. Only Jesus did that.

Who ever taught you this has deceived you. If you lay out the rest of the New Testament, including everything Jesus taught it doesn't make sense. And it contridicts Jesus. Therefore it can't be right.

I'm not sure what Bible you're using but that's not John 6:28.

John 6:28-29
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jesus is teaching a simple principle. He's introducing Himself as the Son of God. He's teaching them the first principle of the gospel, faith on Jesus Christ.

[metmom] Works will only result in condemnation.

This is very wrong. Jesus taught:

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Jesus acknowledged the good works of others:

Matthew 26:10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman?  for she hath wrought a good work upon me.

Jesus used His own works to testify of Himself:

John 10:37 - 38
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

The Apostles acknowledged the good works of others:

Acts 9:36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas:
this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.

Paul taught:

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

James taught:

James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Bad works are all about attitude:

Matthew 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men:

[metmom]They can’t save you.

No one is saying they do. Jesus Christ saves us. Jesus has requirements that must be met or He will not save us. The vast number of people who believe Jesus is the Son of God will still fail at the judgment and will not be allowed into heaven.

[metmom] If you sin only once, you are guilty of the whole Law. You can live a perfect live from now on and it’s not going to do any good because of that once.
THAT’S why works don’t save, because you have to keep the WHOLE Law. Only Jesus did that.

Yes, you are guilty. But the promise of salvation is that Jesus would pay the price for sin and by doing so satisfy the law. Jesus then has requirements of us. It's failing these requiements which will keep the so called "believers" out of heaven.

[metmom]

Galatians 3

1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

[metmom]

Works are a result of salvation to glorify God. They don’t earn salvation. Faith does that.

[MHGinTN]

The poster put up the scripture passage which refutes his specious assertion but he can never allow himself to comprehend it:

John 10:37&38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. [Jesus is clearly teaching that without God's Spirit within, the works are not authored by God! The poster would rather work his way to worthiness because he believes the lies of Mormonism. Jesus is also teaching that the works are evidence that God is within, affirming what James wrote that first fiath then God comes into the human spirit to fashion the works of righteousness. Don't expect the poster admit to this very profound truth straight from Jesus.]

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Christ died for the UNGODLY placemarker

[Stourme, you somehow failed to respond to all the posts upthread that documented the truth that Christ died for
the UNGODLY - not the “worthy” ...]

[Alex Murphy]

My wife and I used to donate money to Free Republic. It was only $50 here and there, as we could afford it, but we gave the money freely. Then, the LDS bashing became 'en vogue' and Jim not only supported it, he joined in. So, we have stopped donating money, and use this site primarily as a news source. Perhaps other's may chose to do the same. Why would anyone donate money to a site that opts to attack their church? This has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with stoking a precious few egos.

Please tell Roy and Greg that everyone here says "hi".

[metmom]

Nor can works ever give any guarantee of salvation because you never know if you've done enough.

Matthew 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Notice here that John says that God GAVE us eternal live, past tense. We already possess it and it is given only through His Son. And John wrote what he did so that we may KNOW that we have eternal life. God wants us to be sure.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Salvation is by faith so that no one can boast. When it's by works, that leaves room for pride and boasting, that one was good enough to do it. Then God doesn't get the glory, man does, and God will not share His glory with another.

Ephesians 2 1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

[Stourme]

First ampu states this,

[aMorePerfectUnion]Yes, HE came to die for the UNGODLY! Not the “worthy”. Any other supposed qualification comes from cultic heresy. If you are not UNGODLY, Christ’s death is not for you.

Then ampu creates a strawman,

[aMorePerfectUnion]You made a claim and accused me of misreading the Bible.
I pointed out that Christ died for the UNGODLY, as the Bible clearly says.

My argument was never that Christ died for the ungodly, of course he did.

My real arguement was:

Christ came for everyone and invites all men to follow him. There can be NO GODLY people with out the atonement of Christ. Jesus Christ paid the price for sin for all those who would follow Him.

[aMorePerfectUnion] If you are not UNGODLY, Christ’s death is not for you.

Utterly devoid of truth.

Which I clearly stated. But ampu and godzilla decided to run off and post over and over about an argument I never made. Thus the strawman.

There is no one that Christ didn't die for.

[restornu]

I have no clue what you are refering too the point I was making is that guy was way behind on WND, who enjoyed posted RazorMouth scathing strawman stuff on the LDS.

Just like you don’t appreciate what this greg person is posting neither do I appreciate what WND takes delight in demonizing the LDS.

It all should stop!

I pray someday people can love one another as the Lord has asked and not hold grudges it only poison and weakens one system

To love One Another is a not a weakness for it is the Spirit of the Lord that editfies.

When we elevate or thoughts we are able to received from on high a better way to win this scrimmage we are in here on earth.

The arm of flesh can only go so far it is the arm of the Lord we need in this spiritual battle.

Eph 6

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

21 But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:

22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts.

23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.