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A Call to Deny Communion to Cuomo
The New York Times ^ | 2/22/11 | Thomas Kaplan

Posted on 02/23/2011 6:27:59 AM PST by marshmallow

ALBANY — A consultant to the Vatican’s highest court is calling for Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo to be denied holy communion because he lives with his girlfriend without being married to her.

Edward N. Peters, a professor at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit, who last year was named by Pope Benedict XVI as a consultant to the Vatican court, the Apostolic Signatura, called the governor’s living situation “public concubinage” in his blog on Jan. 4, and said in a recent interview that Mr. Cuomo, who is Roman Catholic, must refrain from taking communion under canon law.

“The governor, with complete freedom, is publicly acting in violation of a fundamental moral expectation of the church,” Dr. Peters wrote in response to written questions from Cybercast News Service, a conservative Web site, which published his remarks Monday.

“His taking holy communion,” Dr. Peters wrote, “is objectively sacrilegious.”

“If he approaches for holy communion,” he added, “he should be denied the august sacrament.”

Mr. Cuomo’s marriage to Kerry Kennedy ended in a bitter, highly public divorce in 2003. When he is not staying at the Executive Mansion in Albany, Mr. Cuomo lives with Sandra Lee, a Food Network celebrity, at her home in Westchester County.

A spokesman for Mr. Cuomo, Josh Vlasto, declined to comment.

In his written responses, Dr. Peters also criticized Bishop Howard J. Hubbard of Albany, who presided over the Mass that Mr. Cuomo attended with Ms. Lee and his three daughters on Jan. 2.

A spokesman for Bishop Hubbard could not be reached for comment.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS:
A spokesman for Bishop Hubbard could not be reached for comment.

Old mother Hubbard is hiding in a cupboard...........probably with his boyfriend.

1 posted on 02/23/2011 6:28:01 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

I am not unhappy to see this.....the Church has, IMO, become corrupted about the same way our country has.........(or maybe I’m just getting old and don’t like to see anything change)


2 posted on 02/23/2011 6:36:15 AM PST by basil (It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: marshmallow

Hubbard is among the very worst of the very worst in the U.S. hierarchy. He has been wreckovating Albany since 1977, and still has three years left. He was only 38 when made bishop.


3 posted on 02/23/2011 6:36:17 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: marshmallow
I totally agree that the Church needs to enforce the rules with regards to Gov. Cuomo. But I have to ask, and this in the broader context of Christianity... we're all sinners, and all of our sins are equal in the eyes of God. I am sure that when God looks at all of the things we do, that He could find many reasons that we are all to be denied communion.

I guess my question is, why single out Gov. Cuomo when we are all worthy of such a punishment?

4 posted on 02/23/2011 6:40:21 AM PST by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: marshmallow

If anyone needs the Holy Ghost it’s Status Quomo.


5 posted on 02/23/2011 7:00:20 AM PST by MichaelCorleone (Sarah Palin is America's Margaret Thatcher)
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To: marshmallow
Edward N. Peters, a professor at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit, who last year was named by Pope Benedict XVI as a consultant to the Vatican court, the Apostolic Signatura, called the governor’s living situation “public concubinage” in his blog on Jan. 4, and said in a recent interview that Mr. Cuomo, who is Roman Catholic, must refrain from taking communion under canon law.
Canon 915 - Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, are not to be admitted to holy communion.
Sadly, Archbishop Chaput has indicated that it is the responsibility of the communicant to stay away from the Communion Rail. This is not correct. Rather, it is the responsibility of the Minister of the Eucharist to deny Holy Communion. This is a huge difference that goes against the Church's teachings regarding canon 915 as well as recent statements from the Vatican stating that the manifest pro-abortion politicians must be denied, and the burden IS upon the Minister to deny, NOT upon the communicant to stay away
. -- from the thread Will Denver Catholic Archbishop finally enforce Canon 915?
[Archbishop Timothy Dolan] also does not outright deny the sacrament to dissenting Catholic lawmakers, but he is seen as an outspoken defender of church orthodoxy in a style favored by many theological conservatives.
-- from the thread US bishops elect NYC archbishop as head in upset (Catholic bloggers blamed)
"...there's a question about whether this canon'' – the relevant church law – "was ever intended to be used'' to bring politicians to heel. He thinks not. "I stand with the great majority of American bishops and bishops around the world in saying this canon was never intended to be used this way.'' -- from the thread [Archbishop] Wuerl: Why I Won't Deny Pelosi Communion
Related threads:
Pro-Abortion New York and Nevada Governors Get Catholic Mass
Vatican Archbishop Burke: Public Repentance is Required for Pro-Abort Politicians
New San Fran Bishop: Sanctions against Pro-Abort Pols Makes Church Too 'Republican'
Columnist Reflects on Kennedy Funeral, Recalls 2004 Letter from Card. Ratzinger to Card. McCarrick
Did Obama receive Holy Communion at Senator Kennedy's Funeral Mass?
The Bishops Who Speak... And Those Who Don't
[Archbishop] Wuerl: Why I Won't Deny Pelosi Communion
Will Denver Catholic Archbishop finally enforce Canon 915?
Rebuking Rudy Giuliani: Cardinal Egan’s Teaching Moment After Giuliani’s Communion
Did Catholic Archbishop Lose Internal Vote Over Abortion, Communion Debate?
A reflection on canon 915
At a glance: Duties of the Catholic church leaders
May the Laity be Critical of it's Pastor, Bishop, Pope, Church? (Catholic Caucus)
Pope Clarifies That Only He Can Criticize a Cardinal

6 posted on 02/23/2011 7:08:45 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: marshmallow

“A consultant to the Vatican’s highest court is calling for Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo to be denied holy communion because he lives with his girlfriend without being married to her.”

It’s about time. It will take time but orthodoxy will go stronger. In the end, they are better off being corrected now.

Those who are in public capacity and represent themselves as Catholics must be Catholic. They are deceiving fellow Catholics.


7 posted on 02/23/2011 7:24:57 AM PST by rbmillerjr (I will not, under any circumstances, vote for Mitt Romney....none.)
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To: rbmillerjr

“...grow stronger...”


8 posted on 02/23/2011 7:29:29 AM PST by rbmillerjr (I will not, under any circumstances, vote for Mitt Romney....none.)
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To: pnh102
all of our sins are equal in the eyes of God.

The Scriptures make a distinction about those sins against the Holy Ghost, which will neither be forgiven in this world or the next. (Matthew 12:32)
9 posted on 02/23/2011 7:32:42 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: marshmallow

I don’t think any Kennedy is capable of entering a sacramentally-valid marriage, so Cuomo should have no trouble getting an annulment, but he shouldn’t be receiving as long as he’s living in open adultery.


10 posted on 02/23/2011 7:38:38 AM PST by nina0113
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To: Dr. Sivana
The Scriptures make a distinction about those sins against the Holy Ghost, which will neither be forgiven in this world or the next. (Matthew 12:32)

Thank you for the reminder.

But is Gov. Cuomo's cohabitation with his girlfriend this level of sin?

11 posted on 02/23/2011 7:38:38 AM PST by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: marshmallow
Old mother Hubbard is hiding in a cupboard...........probably with his boyfriend.

Is it proper for a Catholic to bash the heirarchy like this? Does a bishop not demand a modicum of respect by virtue of his position? If this heirarchy is indeed ordained by God as you all claim, I am shocked by the disrespect shown by professing Catholics.
12 posted on 02/23/2011 7:38:51 AM PST by armydoc
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To: marshmallow

Again I ask, did cuomo receive communion during the Mass at St Patricks when bloomy, the Archbishop, and assorted other hotshots were strutting about?


13 posted on 02/23/2011 7:42:40 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (Every knife in my back pushes me forward.)
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To: marshmallow

Geez you otta have made this a C thread to keep the detritus out.


14 posted on 02/23/2011 7:44:47 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (Every knife in my back pushes me forward.)
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To: armydoc

You otta click away, then.


15 posted on 02/23/2011 7:46:07 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (Every knife in my back pushes me forward.)
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To: armydoc

This guy Hubbard shows far more disrespect to the position with his own actions. He is not worthy of being a Bishop, and he should be removed.


16 posted on 02/23/2011 7:51:19 AM PST by Celtic Cross (Looking to escape to Idaho--Will work for keep.)
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To: armydoc
Is it proper for a Catholic to bash the heirarchy like this? Does a bishop not demand a modicum of respect by virtue of his position? If this heirarchy is indeed ordained by God as you all claim, I am shocked by the disrespect shown by professing Catholics.

What sort of "respect" would you show to the Apostle Judas if, by some strange circumstance, you were to meet him in the street?

Called and chosen by Christ, yes,........but a betrayer.

Please advise.

17 posted on 02/23/2011 7:52:13 AM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow

Deny Cuomo communion? Eh, not very effective.

If you want to get his attention, deny Cuomo COMMUNISM.


18 posted on 02/23/2011 7:53:14 AM PST by Lazamataz (Scott Walker: Please FIRE.... then APPOINT... then VOTE.)
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To: pnh102
But is Gov. Cuomo's cohabitation with his girlfriend this level of sin?

Not particularly, as your typical sin against the Holy Ghost would be things like despair, blasphemy, presumption, etc.

In Cuomo's case, the main problem is the public and ongoing nature of the sin. In the old days, guys like this would apply (and typically get) an annulment. For once, someone challenged a Kennedy on an annulment (Sheila Rausch Kennedy), wrote a book, waited for the whole issue to wend its way to the Rota, and got it overturned.

Cuomo, as a divorced man, doesn't want to give up his Catholic status, and apparently doesn't want to risk an annulment not being approved. Hence, he is not free to marry in the Church.

With other sins, (e.g. lying in a serious matter), the priest would presume that you went to Confession, and were therefore cleared to receive Commununion. But if Cuomo is there with his shackup, and it is known by all that they are sharing quarters not as brother and sister, it is a cause of grave scandal, as he could not have gone to confession as there was not even a hint of penance of any kind.

Adultery is considered grave matter by the Catholic Church, though it is not a sin against the Holy Ghost. (In Catholic theology, besides the sin against the Holy Ghost is also Mortal vs. Venial Sin. In Sciptures this is also called Deadly Sin.

"If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and He will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly."(John 5:16-17)
19 posted on 02/23/2011 7:55:43 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: Dr. Sivana
The Scriptures make a distinction about those sins against the Holy Ghost, which will neither be forgiven in this world or the next. (Matthew 12:32)

What are the sins against the Holy Ghost???

20 posted on 02/23/2011 7:58:40 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool

Presumption
Despair
Resisting the known truth
Envy of another’s spiritual good
Obstinacy in sin
Final impenitence


21 posted on 02/23/2011 8:06:24 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: marshmallow
“If he approaches for holy communion,” he added, “he should be denied the august sacrament.”

Ain’t gonna happen.

22 posted on 02/23/2011 8:18:57 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: nina0113; Alex Murphy
Cuomo should have no trouble getting an annulment,

AKA Roman Catholic divorce.

but he shouldn’t be receiving as long as he’s living in open adultery.

And then the adultery charge just gets forgotten. Nice gig.

23 posted on 02/23/2011 8:22:00 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: pnh102; Dr. Sivana
Good question and reply.

There is a difference between committing a sin, which we all do, and living in sin. When one commits a sin, one repents- is sorry, makes restitution if possible, and resolves not to do it again.

When one lives in sin, it is more of a continual act of the will; one is generally not very sorry and has no intention of stopping.

In the Gospel story of the woman caught in adultery, Jesus declined to condemn, though He also said “go and sin no more”. That resolve to stop is important; even though one may continually fall, one must continually get up, and not give up.

24 posted on 02/23/2011 9:10:44 AM PST by shurwouldluv_a_smallergov
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To: Dr. Sivana

Under that list, wouldn’t Cuomo be committing all of them except despair and envy?

He resists the knowing that his conduct is sinful and scandalous.

He presumes that he is in good standing and may receive.

He is obstinate in his sin.

He has shown no repentance for his sin.


25 posted on 02/23/2011 9:24:46 AM PST by Jvette
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To: Jvette

I believe final impenitence only refers to those who are dying.

Presumption has more to do with the idea that God will let you into Heaven no matter what.

The others have to do with the internal state of his mind, so he’ll get his answer at Final Judgment. From here, it doesn’t look good.


26 posted on 02/23/2011 9:36:22 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: Dr. Sivana

I agree.

I attended Mass for nearly 8 years without receiving communion because I was not married in the church.

I could have gone to a different parish and received as no one would have known me or the fact that I was prevented from receiving because of the state of my marriage.

I have no problem with Cuomo thinking he is somehow exempt, though I can’t imagine under what terms he claims that exemption, but the fact that the hierarchy, whose job it is to protect and proclaim the faith and admonish sinners abdicate that part of their job, really irks me.

The bishop should be called to task, and Cuomo should be denied.


27 posted on 02/23/2011 9:55:34 AM PST by Jvette
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To: topcat54

Assuming he then marries his girlfriend (rather than shacking up with her), how is that different from what goes on in almost every Protestant congregation all the time? How many people in your church are divorced and remarried?


28 posted on 02/23/2011 11:23:18 AM PST by Campion
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To: marshmallow; armydoc
It's potentially a sin of calumny to refer to Hubbard's "boyfriend," unless you have solid evidence to indicate such a person exists (and then it might be merely a sin of detraction).

Hubbard is a terrible bishop; the damage he's done to the Catholic Church in Albany will take decades to repair. That ought to be enough of an indictment.

29 posted on 02/23/2011 11:26:24 AM PST by Campion
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To: Campion
Assuming he then marries his girlfriend (rather than shacking up with her), how is that different from what goes on in almost every Protestant congregation all the time? How many people in your church are divorced and remarried?

Given the present laissez faire situation, what incentive does he have for marrying her?

I didn’t realize that Protestantism was your standard for practice. You gonna start practicing birth control next?

30 posted on 02/23/2011 11:56:38 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: pnh102
This is not a punitive measure; it's what the Church calls a curative or "medicinal" measure. Cuomo is being singled out because of the open, public, grave, manifest nature of the offense. He could be joined by many more --- but the emphasis is on "manifest": the scandal aspect, using that word the way the Church uses it: something that openly and publicly defies the objective moral law and leads others into moral danger.

As long as Cuomo is allowed to abuse the Sacrament, he is multiplying his own sins, to his own serious harm; the Sacrament is dragged through the mud; and the faithful are given to understand that it's "no big deal".

So for Cuomo's own spiritual well-being; for the honor of Christ in His Sacraments; and for the protection of the faithful, this must be stopped.

It's a medicinal measure. If Cuomo's bishop had any love in his heart for him at all, he would have stopped him years and years ago. We must pray for his repentance, and our own.

31 posted on 02/23/2011 11:57:06 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Act, and God will act." ---- St. Joan of Arc, patroness of France)
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To: basil
I think the Church has been corrupted mainly by non-enforcement (like the good and just laws of this country ---and the Constitution! --- are corrupted by non-enforcement.)

For the record, the RC Church is plainly and firmly, explicitly, sometimes excruciatingly, and quite admirably clear on what is a sin and what isn't. My parish has classes running all the time --- for instance, I'm on the RCIA teaching team for adults preparing for Baptism and Confirmation --- and man I'm telling you, I make sure they "get it".

That being said, Ed Peters (the canon lawyer quoted above) is well aware of the uneven quality of teaching and discipline in the USA's nearly-19,000 Catholic parishes. He, working with Abp Raymond Burke, is making a start --- a start --- in getting a swifter, sharper, better enforcement of Canon Law in the United States.

We can all criticize slackers. But I hope fellow FReepers won't knock the stand-up guys like Peters and Burke guys who are manning up and --- bless them! finally!--- doing the Right Thing.

32 posted on 02/23/2011 12:04:11 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (The Holy Catholic Church: the more Catholic it is, the more Holy it is.)
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To: Campion; armydoc
I have no solid evidence.

All I have are old news reports of fallout from the Minkler affair which allege that Hubbard was the leader and protector of a ring of active homosexuals in Albany and also claims made by Stephen Brady of Roman Catholic Fatihful and James Likoudis of The Wanderer that Hubbard had...."sex in the 1970s with one man who later killed himself and another who was a teenage prostitute in Washington Park.".

Over the years, there have been various other reports, also.

I believe him to be a card-carrying member of the lavender mafia but that's just my personal 0.02.

33 posted on 02/23/2011 12:27:15 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow
What sort of "respect" would you show to the Apostle Judas if, by some strange circumstance, you were to meet him in the street? Called and chosen by Christ, yes,........but a betrayer. Please advise.

I would probably echo Christ's words: "It would have been better had you never been born".

You are missing the point. You, as a Catholic, owe your hierarchy reverence. CCC 1554:

"The divinely instituted ecclesiastical ministry is exercised in different degrees by those who even from ancient times have been called bishops, priests, and deacons." Catholic doctrine, expressed in the liturgy, the Magisterium, and the constant practice of the Church, recognizes that there are two degrees of ministerial participation in the priesthood of Christ: the episcopacy and the presbyterate . The diaconate is intended to help and serve them. For this reason the term sacerdos in current usage denotes bishops and priests but not deacons. Yet Catholic doctrine teaches that the degrees of priestly participation (episcopate and presbyterate) and the degree of service (diaconate) are all three conferred by a sacramental act called "ordination," that is, by the sacrament of Holy Orders: Let everyone revere the deacons as Jesus Christ, the bishop as the image of the Father, and the presbyters as the senate of God and the assembly of the apostles. For without them one cannot speak of the Church.

You could argue what "reverence" entails, but at a minimum I would think that it means that any differences you have with the bishop would be handled 1) privately with the bishop himself and/or his superiors utilizing established mechanisms within your church, and 2) without resorting to contemptuous, slanderous speech. Your post, on a public forum, violates both. You are only hurting your church. As a protestant, I say "rock on"! How about a steamy word picture of what you envision Hubbard doing with his "boyfriend" in the cupboard? Hey, he deserves it, right? You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
34 posted on 02/23/2011 3:23:54 PM PST by armydoc
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To: armydoc
You could argue what "reverence" entails, but at a minimum I would think that it means that any differences you have with the bishop would be handled 1) privately with the bishop himself and/or his superiors utilizing established mechanisms within your church, and 2) without resorting to contemptuous, slanderous speech. Your post, on a public forum, violates both. You are only hurting your church.

Preach it, padre. I have no intention of arguing what "reverence" entails. Guilty as charged. I was totally irreverent..

It's true. I have nothing but contempt for the way bishops like Hubbard have abused the episcopal office. After close to half a century of watching Hubbard and his fellow travelers dismantle the Church, preach heresy, allow homosexual molesters free reign to prey on young men and children, close parishes and sell churches, this tired old sinner is finding "reverence" a little hard to come by. I also find the occasional venting exercise to be altogether therapeutic.

If you, or any man, has the strength of character to watch something you love trashed and destroyed in front of you while all the time managing to say nothing harsh nor insulting about those responsible, then you're a much better man than I, Doc.

As a protestant, I say "rock on"! How about a steamy word picture of what you envision Hubbard doing with his "boyfriend" in the cupboard? Hey, he deserves it, right? You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Yes, we're not all saints yet and I'm further than most. Having led a life of riotous self-indulgence, words of contempt for a bishop are probably among the least of my worries, but thanks for your concern. The Church will survive marshmallow.

Your condescending words of reproof notwithstanding, I generally intend to carry on in the same vein, which will probably mean that from time to time, I'll say something harsh about lavender episcopal flamers like Hubbard.

Ooops......I just did it again, didn't I??!!!

Oh dear......

35 posted on 02/23/2011 7:47:43 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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