Posted on 07/16/2011 7:24:33 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
I don’t know that there was any exit poll that specifically asked religion, and I don’t believe Mormons would necessarily tell the truth about their religion if there was (we see a lot of LDS lying about being LDS even on here. Why? Because they think it gives them credibility to be a non-Mormon and defend Mormonism - Szonian admits he did this when he was LDS and several LDS who have been zotted did as well). I will admit I even lied about being Mormon (said I wasn’t) when I was LDS if I thought it would help. That is before I found Christ and became a Christian. Never discredit ‘lying for the Lord’ even in politics with the LDS. But I digress...
I did find THIS extensive exit poll from the 2010 NV election. Lets look at some of the questions in light of the possibility of Mormon votes for Reid, knowing what we know about the LDS.
Again, I know LDS culture and mindset but that aside...
One of the articles mentioned that the LDS make up 5.2% of NV voters and that they turn out in higher percentages than the general population. (I do not disagree with that).
Harry Reid won by 5.8% of the vote. http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/results/nevada
Also, lets figure in the prevailing view of Mormons as conservatives, tea party supporters, republicans, and the like. I will skip factors like age, income, college education and degrees (although that does apply to a larger number of LDS).
Now to the questions and percentages...
No matter how you voted today, do you usually think of yourself as a (Republican)...11% Reid.
On most political matters, do you consider yourself: (Conservative) 18% for Reid
In the 2008 election for president, did you vote for: (McCain) 10% for Reid.
Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling his job as president? Somewhat disapprove 46% for Reid. Strongly disapprove 7% for Reid.
Is your opinion of the Democratic Party: Unfavorable 12% for Reid.
Is your opinion of the Republican Party: Favorable 13% for Reid.
Which is closer to your view:Government is doing too many things better left to businesses and individuals 21% for Reid.
How do you feel about the Tea Party movement? Strongly support 7% for Reid. Somewhat support 15% for Reid.
Was one reason for your vote for U.S. Senate today to send a message:In favor of the Tea Party movement 15% for Reid.
Now, why would pro-tea party, conservative, Republicans vote for Reid for any other reason than his religion?
You are asking for evidence that does not appear to exist other than through extrapolating corollary characteristics. Additionally, if you calculate in the percentage of liberal, democrats, anti tea party people who voted AGAINST Reid, the numbers are much less than ‘conservative, tea party, republicans who voted FOR him.
What other group can you name, that votes as a block (like most Mormons) that would match those characteristics? Utah went 94% for Romney in the primary, btw.
Also, I know so many LDS in Vegas and Utah because I used to live there when I was LDS and had other LDS friends who moved to Vegas.
One told me that he was voting for Reid because he would rather have a Mormon than a ‘gentile’. I asked him how he handled the Presidential elections and he responded he didn’t vote for non-Mormons ever. But he is an exception.
How do you feel about being called a ‘bigot’ and ‘skinhead’?
You can comment all you like about how grassroots lds Nevada voters see Harry Reid; the key in my estimation is how Lds, Inc. (top-down hierarchy) views Harry Reid.
We know that Harry Reid is an official visiting home teacher for the Lds church (#1 below)...
...which also via BYU ensured that Harry Reid was invited to an all-student/all-faculty forum with Reid as speaker in October 2007 (#2 below).
#1 The Salt Lake Tribune ran an October 2009 article Harry Reid: A Mormon in the Middle
Here were two “interesting” comments by fellow Mormons about Reid, including one from Sen. Orrin Hatch:
Bennett's Utah Senate colleague, Orrin Hatch, says it's not fair for fellow Mormons to disparage Reid as anything but a devout Mormon..."I can personally tell you that Harry is a good member of the LDS faith and he was expressing a personal opinion that his side feels very deeply about," Hatch says.
Well, there ya go, Chuck. This Trib article also mentioned how ”Today, Reid, with his security escort in tow, likely will be making his home teaching rounds after his ward's three-hour service. Anyone who questions his Mormon credentials should see that, says Jim Vlock, his home-teaching companion.
Now, I've actually searched for Mormon exit poll data for the Nevada Angle-Reid race & couldn't find any. So I don't know how much Mormon support he had there; but just in perusing for Nevada residents who might be representative of support or critique, I found two pro-Reid Mormons:
(a) Kelsey Jorgenson
BYU newspaper citing student speaking about Harry Reid: “I respect him. I think that he basically does do a good job of representing Mormons in general,” said Kelsey Jorgenson, a BYU student from Las Vegas. “He is a political leader after all, and I think he puts on a good public face. I think it’s a good thing that he is a Democrat and a Mormon.” (BYU Daily Universe, Jan. 13, 2010)
And why wouldn’t a BYU student like Miss Jorgenson “respect” Sen. Reid? After all, don’t BYU students come to trust BYU decision-makers as ones who would only invite politician-speakers onto campus worthy of “respect?” And didn’t BYU’s decision-makers do that?
Perhaps Miss Jorgenson is a junior or senior now @ BYU – meaning she probably then heard...
...#2 Reid speak @ BYU two academic years ago. And if she was there, perhaps she heard Sen. Reid tell BYU students: "I am a Democrat because I am a Mormon, not in spite of it."
Source: Reid Gets Warm Reception at BYU
(b) Richard Bunker: The Las Vegas Review-Journal ran an article May 30 2010 with this mention: ...Mormon places of worship, where those who support Reid often keep their opinions to themselves...When people try to attack him, there isn't anybody who is willing to speak up," says Richard Bunker, a prominent Mormon and strong Reid supporter who happens to be Republican. "The problem is, the people that are vocal are the ones who are opposed to him, the ones that are beating the tom-toms with the Tea Party and all of that garbage. Sometimes I have to straighten them out." Bunker, whose great-grandfather was among Mormons who founded Bunkerville in 1877…
Source: Harry Reid
PERSONAL, yes. But will it remain "only" 'tween "person and God"??? That assessment will surprise the one who wrote a good chunk of the New Testament (apostle) Paul...as well as Jesus Himself:
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and EVERY tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. (Paul, Phillippians 2:9-11)
Jesus: 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matthew 25:41-46)
[But, I thought, Lord, that religion was just a you-&-me personal issue, dude...why, if I'd only known that whate'er I did for my personal neighbor was like doin' that for you...man, I would changed by behave long ago...]
Sorry, but generally speaking we already have way too big of a problem with politicos & bureaucrats acting as if they are gods & messiahs...And now you advocate putting more self-prideful people -- temple Mormons who really do think they are gods & messiahs? Into positions where we have too many (non-Mormons) acting like that already?
Employee-wise for the high-up admin positions, I don't have a prob with somebody hiring non-temple Mormons. These are the 80% of Mormons who don't think they're godhood-bound.
We need less people in politics/bureaucrats acting as if they were gods & messiahs...not more.
No he didn't, in 1924 the democrats got 29% of the total vote against 54% republican, and in 1928 Catholic Democrat Al Smith got 41% to the republican’s 58%, so my guess would be that his Protestant vote improved over the previous election. [ansel]
Good historical catch, Ansel.
Bingo, Reaganaut.
'Tis interesting to see so many FREEPERS -- ones obviously ignorant about Mormonism -- accuse the Inmans of being ignorant bigots...all the while being totally intolerant and ignorant about that which they comment!
Horrible assumptions, Chuck, that I dealt with in post #345.
Lds Inc doesn't let MINOs become home visiting teachers. Lds Inc doesn't make a habit of having MINOs give big speeches on the BYU campus.
From the article I linked @ post #345 from the Deseret News, October, 2007...the BYU campus doesn't give this kind of response to MINO MOrmons: At the end of his speech, Reid earned a standing ovation from a small percentage of the crowd and applause from the rest.
Sorry, Chuck. Seems this standing ovation + applause by the BYU faithful sort of undercuts your MINO theorizing that lacks a documented foundation.
BTW, many mormons have questions about Reid’s true faith...
Of course, they do. And what does Harry Reid tend to say about these Mormons? Per that same Salt Lake Trib October 2009 article I cited in post #345: "I think some of the most unChristian-like letters, phone calls, contacts I've had were from members of the [LDS] church, saying some of the most mean things that are not in the realm of our church doctrine or certainly Christianity," Reid said last week during an interview in his office.
Source: Harry Reid: A Mormon in the Middle
To me it seems a very long and unsuccessful leap in logic.
- - - -
Not at all.
You agreed with a post that called the ‘anti-Mormons’ on here a “as loud and well organized cabal of religious bigots”. Since that group is made up entirely of Christians, of various denominations (as was pointed out), it isn’t much of a leap to equate the ‘cabal of religious bigots’ with “Christian of all religious denominations...”.
Since you aren’t claiming to be LDS, atheist perhaps?
I was called a skin head once after I lost all my hair to chemo.
- - - - -
I’m sorry I shouldn’t laugh but that is funny. Stupid people never cease to amaze me.
Of course, I’ve been called a neo-Nazi because I’m of German descent. Never mind my grandparents and aunts and father were all in the camps (my grandmother and one aunt died).
There were several adds, print and radio, that more or less stated that if he became President jack Kennedy would be taking directions from the Pope. [Nip, post #22]
Jews listen to Rabbis Catholics listen to Bishops Protestants listen to Wesley, Calvin, Baker, Sweigart, etc.. [aumrl, post #19]
Ah, but what is in an oath? When do they swear? [MrChips, post #50]
Tell you what, Born to Conserve & Nip...Please show us where the Pope has made similar spiritual-political imposing statements such as what you find from Lds leaders below...except for the first three statements, ALL of them were made by Lds leaders between the 1960s and 1980s...and even the third statement was being reprinted in official publications ranging from 1984 in a book -->July 7, 2011 in the Lds church-owned Deseret News! Talk about current...can't get anymore "current" than that!
| Lds Leader | Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) | Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words) | |
| John Taylor | Lds 'Prophet' #3 | “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862) | |
| Orson Hyde | President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) | “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53) | |
| Heber J. Grant | Lds 'Prophet' #7 | "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984) | |
| Harold B. Lee | Lds 'Prophet' #11 | ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989) | |
| Spencer Kimball | Lds 'Prophet' #12 | "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983) | |
| What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? | Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') | "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) | |
| Ezra Taft Benson | Lds 'Prophet' #13 | Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #5 | 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney? Ya hear that Jon Huntsman?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #9 | 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt? Still listening, Jon?) | |
| Benson (cont'd) | Fundamental #10 | 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt? What say ye Jon?) | |
| Mitt Romney as POTUS??? | Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? | The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."] |
“I respect him. I think that he basically does do a good job of representing Mormons in general,”
_____________________________________________________
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I thought the idea was for Harry Reid to represernt ALL the residents of Utah in Congress, both Mormon AND non-Mormons..
“I am a Democrat because I am a Mormon, not in spite of it.”
__________________________________________________
I guess Harry Reid has forgiven Jimmy Carter
In 1978 when Jimmy Carter insisted that his political friends the Mormons change their racist bigoted doctrines and allow black men to be somewhat equal, the Mormons retaliated by refusing to vote Democrat anymore..
The Mormon voting block were told to vote Republican in 1980 and Carter was chucked under the bus...
And they ain't got nothin but spitballs..
Know what ?
IF all you forward is true - the constitution provides ways to remedy unconstitutional actions by chief exectutives
Just WHO is doing the CALLING???
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (, p.270).Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (, p. 119).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" ( 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" ( 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" ( 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" ( 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (, p. 255).Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (, 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (, 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (, vol. 2, p.196).
THE question??
I've got TWO that get totally IGNORED:
1. Why do MORMONs continue to eat MEAT in warm weather and plenty (against their god's wishes.)
2. What did Joseph Smith LEARN to be UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism of his day?
BeAST/2 PLACEMARKER
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