Posted on 01/15/2012 10:10:29 PM PST by bibletruth
1 Timothy 2:5 ...one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
If there is a debate here then it must follow Bible Scriptures to advocate reproofs, corrections, and instructions on how God the Father has ordained and appointed someone other than HIS SON Christ Jesus as that mediator. In light of 1 Timothy 2:5 - there is no debate here since God's Word clearly points out that that mediator is is Christ Jesus, who has been appointed 2,000 years ago between God and men.
"Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-21
"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16
Let me inform you of a truth... I have already read the entire Bible several times... and I only read the Bible and I perfectly know and understand how to rightly dividing the word of truth and provide doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. It is the CC church that needs to read and heed GOD's Word rightly divided:
II Timothy 2:15: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
II Timothy 3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: II Timothy 3:17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
You already count me as an enemy:
Galatians 4:16: Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Yet, I do not count you as an enemy:
II Thessalonians 3:15: Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
We also ask her to pray for us. Anything wrong with that? Ever ask your mother, your wife, your children to pray for you?
The NT Scriptures are much more than a written record of the oral teaching of the apostles; they are an INSPIRED record.
If God's Word of truth were given the FINAL AUTHORITY it deserves, as God's Word of Truth, there would be no "agendas". Of course, that means the Catholic Church would collapse under the weight of tradition, doctrines of men, deceit, and denial of God being the FINAL AUTHORITY OF HIS OWN WORD. The Catholic Church is the very epitome of AGENDA.
The context of 2 Peter makes clear this means scripture comes from the Holy Spirit not from the personal opinions of the Prophets who pronounced it. Nothing hear says one should regard solely on another to interpret it for them. More on point is 1 Corinthians:
"these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the Spirit of that person which is in him....Now we have received not the Spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual." 1 Cor 2:10-13
The context of 2 Peter makes clear this means scripture comes from the Holy Spirit not from the personal opinions of the Prophets who pronounced it. Nothing hear says one should regard solely on another to interpret it for them. More on point is 1 Corinthians:
"these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the Spirit of that person which is in him....Now we have received not the Spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual." 1 Cor 2:10-13
I have read ALL of Scripture, many many times and have no agenda, certainly not a Church driven one. I seek God not earthly worldly power for an institution.
But who/what is THE CHRIST? The Jewish Scriptures are not at all clear about that.. The New Testament is an effort to show by those Scriptures that the coming of Jesus and his deeds were foretold in Jewish Scripture. The Jews look at those same Scriptures and contend that they see no such thing. Now their canon of Scriptures omits many books, such as Wisdom, but you accept that same canon as your own. So if you and they both look at the same words and SEE different truths about Jesus, then they will be no more convinced by the testimony of the New Testament than you can be convinced otherwise. They come from a long tradition of interpretation.You come from another.
Yours, I submit, because you reject Catholic tradition, is even briefer, not even going back to the Reformation, for they had much more reverence for Mary than you have.
But that is not really what I want to talk about here. You should not dismiss out of hand what has happened over a period of two thousand years, especially the Arian controversy. For at bottom, it was a battle over the interpretation of the Bible. WHO IS JESUS? Arius claimed that the Bible says that Jesus is divine, but is not God. The Church rejected this interpretation of Scripture. Arius put his Scripture as proof. The Church disagreed. The Nicaean Creed is a statement of that disagreement and a positive statement saying who they thought Jesus is. Two interpretation of Scripture clashing. If you don’t study them carefully, you will think that they are quibbling. But they are profoundly different. IS the Nicaean formula one you agree with or one you reject? No point in talking about Mary unless we first agree who Christ is. To both of us, she is just a creature of God.
No he didn't.
He posted a thread with THIS title.....
NIV Bible Error Lucifer AND Jesus are ONE in the NIV
Can you try to be more honest in your representations of what others say and write.
Nobody is so stupid as to believe something without checking it and when they do the false witness borne if blatantly obvious to all.
Or is bearing false witness no more of a sin deserving of hell than stealing is?
People know that but some people will not let the truth stand in their way of discrediting others.
You noticed that too, eh?
“In other words “c’mon Mary, you’re Jesus’s mother, he HAS to do what you tell him”. This isn’t what Catholics will publicly admit to, but it’s, in essence, what they are thinking when they pray to Mary as their intercessor.”
*************************************************************************************
Yeah, that’s exactly what they believe. They think it’s easier to get prayers answered when they go THROUGH her because God can’t turn her down, which totally ignores all the promises in Scripture given by Jesus that God the Father Himself will hear and answer our prayers, Himself.
Here are a couple Catholic websites which address that issue.
Frequently Asked Questions about CATHOLICS PRAYING TO MARY
http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu67.htm
Why Pray To Virgin Mary?
http://www.turnbacktogod.com/should-we-pray-to-virgin-mary/
“Therefore we should make the Hail Mary neither a prayer nor an invocation because it is improper to interpret the words beyond what they mean in themselves and beyond the meaning given them by the Holy Spirit.”[100]
“…her giving birth is blessed in that it was spared the curse upon all children of Eve who are conceived in sin and born to deserve death and damnation. Only the fruit of her body is blessed, and through this birth we are all blessed.”[101]
“…in the present no one speaks evil of this Mother and her Fruit as much as those who bless her with many rosaries and constantly mouth the Hail Mary. These, more than any others, speak evil against Christ’s word and faith in the worst way.[102]
“Therefore, notice that this Mother and her Fruit are blessed in a twofold way—bodily and spiritually. Bodily with lips and the words of the Hail Mary; such persons blaspheme and speak evil of her most dangerously. And spiritually [one blesses her] in one’s heart by praise and benediction for her child, Christ—for all his words, deeds, and sufferings. And no one does this except he who has the true Christian faith because without such faith no heart is good but is by nature stuffed full of evil speech and blasphemy against God and all his saints.”[103]
“Again, when the angel greets Mary, he says, “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you!” Up to now that has simply been translated according to, the literal Latin. Tell me whether that is also good German! When does a German speak like that, “You are full of grace”? What German understands what that is, to be “full of grace”? He would have to think of a keg “full of” beer or a purse “full of” money. Therefore I have translated it, “Thou gracious one,” so that a German can at least think his way through to what the angel meant by this greeting. Here, however, the papists are going wild about me, because I have corrupted the Angelic Salutation; though I have still not hit upon the best German rendering for it. Suppose I had taken the best German, and translated the salutation thus: “Hello there, Mary” —for that is what the angel wanted to say, and what he would have said, if he had wanted to greet her in German. Suppose I had done that! I believe that they would have hanged themselves out of tremendous fanaticism for the Virgin Mary, because I had thus destroyed the salutation.”[106]
“All three continental reformers, Luther, Calvin and Zwingli, had grown up as Catholics and conformed to the devotional practices of the Church, especially Luther, who had been an Augustinian friar while Zwingli had been a secular priest and Calvin a layman. Though there are considerable differences in the doctrinal positions of the three, they have this in common that they leave hardly any place for human free-will in their systems and attribute salvation wholly to the grace of God requiring no human cooperation. As a consequence they rejected the Catholic conception of holiness and with it the cult of the saints, including that of the blessed Virgin…[Luther] never tired of praising her faith as an example to all Christians and of admiring the graces God had showered on this simple girl. But he overemphasized this very simplicity that would allow of no human values or standing, but which is, indeed, quite unworthy of the gifts God has showered on it. So, in opposition to medieval and contemporary preachers who stated that one could never give too much to the Mother of God, Luther, on the contrary, asserted that one could never give her too little. She was never to be asked for help nor for anything else, since all was given by God alone.”[109]
Jesus didn't think she was the best of us.
This is what HE had to say......
Matthew 11:11 Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Luke 7:28 I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
Makes it sound like Mary herself was the one who produced Jesus. The *fruit* of her womb?
Really?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.