On Fifteen Years a Catholic ("How can you join a church that tells you how to think?")

Catholic World Report ^ | April 20, 2012 | Carl Olson

[CynicalBear]

I look at the meaning of the word itself without trying to inject a meaning or explain a meaning given by someone else to a passage or verse.

Here’s another site just for reference. http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=3304

If you look at every usage in scripture it is being used to disagree with or correct something that has been said.

[CynicalBear]

You did notice I bolded the “nay rather” right while injecting the real meaning of the Greek word used there?

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm not sure boldening a phrase without noting your intended significance helps much when the your perception of the "real meaning" is so novel that it has not been adopted by any published Bible translation I can find.

Which translation are you using?

[CynicalBear]

Don’t get lost in the bushes. I use the Greek interlinear a lot. The King James most of the time but always check the Greek meaning of words when I sense error. I didn’t come by my name by accident.

[Natural Law]

"I look at the meaning of the word itself without trying to inject a meaning or explain a meaning given by someone else to a passage or verse."

You are looking at translations of translations. What in your judgment or experience qualifies you to validate the translations and infallibly interpret the original meaning?

"Here’s another site just for reference. http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=3304"

This source too relies on contributors. If we are to take Strong's Concordance we have to first admit that it is not infallible and that it is based upon the King James translation which itself is flawed.

Since you seem so intent on appealing to authority, why don't you look to what the Early Church Fathers had to say on the subject, those who were either students of the Apostles or were no more than a generation or two removed from those who were?

[Mr. Lucky]

OK, but, you'll have to forgive my going with the crowd on this one.

In Martin Luther's Die Bibel, he translated Luke 11:28 into:

Er aber sprach: Ja, selig sind, die das wort Gottes horen und bewahren,

which, in English can be translated to say:

He said: Yes (or indeed, or truly) are they that hear and keep the word of God.

Unlike the sisters this thread is about, I don't disagree with the teachings of my church.

[Melian]

May God bless you for that leap of faith. Children see some things so clearly. God bless you for seeing the essence. As in Christ’s day, you knew His face in an instant.

[Melian]

Congratulations! And thank you for continuing to grow as a Catholic soul. May God bless your journey!

[353FMG]

Sheesh, that was no leap of faith — I was just a punk kid with an inquisitive and hungry mind who, for some unknown reason, God took pity on.

[353FMG]

Sheesh, that was no leap of faith — I was just a punk kid with an inquisitive and hungry mind who, for some unknown reason, God took pity on.

[CynicalBear]

>> OK, but, you'll have to forgive my going with the crowd on this one.<<

Following the “crowd” isn’t my way. I search for truth. Following the “crowd” will get you what the “crowd” gets.

[Melian]

I will miss you, Miss Marple. Your posts have helped and sustained me throug the years and I thank you. Keep the faith. I too suffer at times with all the distractions caused by poor music, or too Glee-like music at Mass.

However, I remind myself that my job is to focus on what is going on at the altar and I will let no man lessen the Eucharist for me. It is just between me and God. Everything else is superfluous. I have begun a “Mass Journal” that I bring to Mass and in it I record the message of that Mass that struck me in my journey to be the best version of me I can be. Maybe doing that will help you too. It focuses the mind on the message.

When we suffer abuse for being Catholic we can count ourselves lucky to suffer those stripes for Him. God bless you always.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The first is the intellectual life. The Fundamentalism of my youth was, in sum, anti-intellectual; it looked with caution, even fearful disdain, on certain aspects of modern science, technology, and academic study.

::Sigh:: Yet another "I became a Catholic because I believe in evolution and think the Bible is full of nonsense" story.

Here's a shocker: it's not that Fundamentalists don't think. They just think differently from you.

Just why Catholics think it's so "intellectual" to listen to "science" when it denies the historical truth of Genesis 1-11 while telling science to take a hike when it denies some precious Catholic "truth" (and thus to engage in hypocrisy and internal inconsistency) is beyond me. And I've quite worn out my brain thinking about it.

[Melian]

God takes pity on us all and is always reaching out to us. You said, “Yes.”

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Oh really?”

Yes, really.

“Jeremiah castigates the people for making offerings to the queen of heaven.”

Those were pagans, not Christians. The queen of heaven they made offerings to was not the Virgin Mary. Again, there are no demonstrable connections between the Virgin Mary and pagan stories. You’re just proving my point for me.

“And isn’t it interesting that the concept of Mary being the “mother of God” was declared in Ephesus where Diana was worshiped as the “queen of heaven”. We find the pressure put on the Apostles from Ephesus in Acts 19.”

No concept was declared in Ephesus. At the COUNCIL of Ephesus, the DOCTRINE of Mary as the Theotokos was defined. As every orthodox Christian knows and acknowledges, Jesus is God, and Mary is His mother, therefore, Mary is the mother of God. Holding the council in Ephesus merely showed that paganism had been crushed by Christianity.

“Incorporating pagan symbols, rituals, and practices seems to be the Catholic Churches way to placate those who it wants to become members.”

Demonstrate that there is a connection between the Virgin Mary and pagan stories. Otherwise, everything else you say is just another anti-Catholic failure.

“There are other references to the “queen of heaven” concept in pagan religions which God called an abomination. Now would you find that concept contained in anything the Apostles or Jesus taught?”

Yes. They knew Jesus was a king. What do you call the mother of a king? A queen.

I knew you would fail to show ANY demonstrable connection between the Virgin Mary and pagan stories. You’ll keep failing too.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “Those were pagans, not Christians. The queen of heaven they made offerings to was not the Virgin Mary” <<

.
Anyone who prays to “the virgin Mary” as queen of heaven or anything else is a pagan whether they know it or not. We are given prayer access to the Father only, and that solely in the name of his only begotten Son, Yeshua Hamachiac.

There is no other contact allowed, and there is no dead human that is consious of your prayers anyway; its the fallen ones that answer your contra-biblical prayers, if at all.
.

[narses]

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.

(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)

[Heart-Rest]

You sound like you may have heard Matthew Kelly somewhere, or seen his DVD "The Seven Pillars of Catholic Spirituality", and/or read his book "Rediscover Catholicism".

If so, wasn't that story about the blood from the boy powerful?

(He has a great sense of humor too.)

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Anyone who prays to “the virgin Mary” as queen of heaven or anything else is a pagan whether they know it or not.”

False. Pagans worship those other than God. No Catholic worships Mary. We pray to her through the power of Christ and ask for her prayers before the Lord. There is no worship involved on our part.

“We are given prayer access to the Father only, and that solely in the name of his only begotten Son, Yeshua Hamachiac.”

Christ shares His offices with His saints. That’s why He, the supreme judge, will allow saints to judge fallen angels at the end of time. (1 Cor. 6:3) Most anti-Catholics are too biblically illiterate to know that, of course.

“There is no other contact allowed, and there is no dead human that is consious of your prayers anyway; its the fallen ones that answer your contra-biblical prayers, if at all.”

The saints are alive in God. You make the same error as the Sadducees. Mark 12:24. Siding with the Sadducees is not a good sign.

[Cronos]

Had to revert to obfuscation

Nah, asking you questions on your beliefs. Strange how some folks never want to talk about their beliefs.