Psalm 83 War
Ezekiel 38 War 
Posted on 12/29/2013 5:22:47 PM PST by Star Traveler
Acts 2:20 (KJV): The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come.
Pastor Mark Biltz of El Shaddai Ministries in Puyallup, Washington click here has been sharing with us some remarkable discoveries on the blood-red moon and Jewish feast connections in the past three months. He now has some new discoveries.
I have known Mark for four years and have spoken at his church twice in the Tacoma, Washington, area. He has been an avid student and teacher of the Jewish Feasts and their awe-inspiring connections to the Lord's earthly events.
Mark said he had found my blood-red moon work interesting and began looking into possible connection to past and future Jewish Feasts at which time he found very significant connections.
I have provided blood-red moon information, and information on the coming total solar eclipses of 2008, 2009 and 2010—which all fall on the 1st of Av.
Seven back-to-back, blood-red moons have fallen on the first day of Passover and Sukkot, with the eighth time coming in 2014 and 2015
Mark found that we have had blood-red moons on the first day of Passover and the first day of Sukkot on back-to-back years seven times since 1 A.D. Three of these occurrences were connected to 1492 (the final year of the Spanish Inquisition), 1948 (statehood for Israel and the War of Independence), and 1967 (the Six-Day War) — some of the most significant days in Jewish history.
So what does the period of time from 2013 to 2015 portend for Israel and the world?
(Excerpt) Read more at watch.org ...
>> “this post has nothing to do with the Pre-tribulational Rapture, that the Bible teaches.” <<
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that’s good, because the Bible firmly dictates a Rapture/Resurrection exactly at the end of Satan’s tribulation, “at the Last Trump,” as Paul declares, or “with a mighty trump” as Yeshua declares it.
The feasts which exactly match the numbers of days stated in Revelation in their spacing also require it.
There is no place in the scriptures that suggests any rapture prior to the Abomination’s appearance at Purim.
Not only Historicists such as yourself, but Preterists would say the same thing. As a futurist, I disagree with both preterists and historicists. I see chapters four through the end of the book prophetic of the end time, NOT ongoing history taking place throughout the last two thousand years.
I also disagree with your interpretation of Rev. 1:19. But we would be getting far afield from what this thread is all about for us to get into a big brouhaha over it. Start a separate thread on it, and we'll discuss it.
That’s where I’m coming from (as you say you do too) in that I’m not connecting this tetrad (of lunar eclipses) to the second coming.
I haven’t really gotten into what either Blitz or Hagee say ... so I couldn’t really say much about their position. And, to tell you the truth, if I were to guess what their position is — in regards to the second coming — I can’t imagine that they would say that these are directly connected to it and tie in with some prophecies directly. They would actually be quite dumb to say that - and I don’t think they are that dumb.
I’m not sure, but what someone might possibly say, who “sounds” like they are trying to connect up this tetrad with the second coming — is that they are not really doing so, if you read their words precisely. I suspect it’s something more along the lines of ... “more ‘signs’ are appearing that relate to Israel and the end times, and things may be building up to that conclusion, of the second coming.”
In other words, what they are most likely doing is saying that the “stage is being set” for the second coming to happen ... and not that these tetrads are directly tied into the second coming and not that they form the basis for the timing of it.
But, that’s just my guess for their position, in that I don’t think they would be that stupid to say it’s directly tied into the second coming.
I would rather reserve my judgement as to whether Hagee is doing this as a (1) scare tactic and (2) using it for self enrichment, until I read the book and see what he says.
He’s a strong supporter of Israel, and I do believe he’s sincere in this. The organization of “Christians United for Israel” which he heads, forms a potent political block for our government to contend with, if it decides to weaken the support for Israel or to try and abandon it.
As it quotes on their page ...
CUFI is the largest pro-Israel organization in the US, with more than a million members.”
-The Jerusalem Post.
Christians United for Israel
http://www.cufi.org/
You do not see the book of Revelation that Yeshua commissioned the Apostle John to write.
I’m no historicist; I simply read what is written in God’s word, and believe it.
Maybe a quick note to his contact address might clear it up. Heck, if I were REALLY INTERESTED in finding out, I would dial up the church number and ask someone directly about it. That’s how I would go about it ... but I’m not that interested ... :-) ...
I do believe we can classify the different positions in regards to Revelation, and also in regards to the “groundwork position” for the interpretation of prophecy in the Bible.
The fact of the matter is that in ALL POSITIONS, one is going to say that they are taking that position because that’s what the verses of the Bible tell them ... :-) ...
And ... face it ... we’re all looking at the VERY SAME VERSES. It’s only the “framework” for the interpretation of what those verses mean, that changes things. That meaning will differ according to what the framework of interpretation is.
SO ... while one may not like the “classification” (of the interpretation) ... it’s actually there and it’s valid (to “classify”) — even if one doesn’t realize that they are in that classification.
Usually, if someone doesn’t like the “classification” of their position, then that usually means that either they do not have a standard position (and it’s actually a mish-mash of stuff bearing no rationality) - or - they are trying to avoid people really knowing their position until they can be “sucked into it” a little bit further.
And ... believe me ... with about two thousand years of Christian history and writings on it - we do have the standard and identifiable positions,
What I do, right up front, is I don’t mess around and I just state the position in shorthand form, as I have done on my Freeper page.
I did intend to ping you to Post #87, but I forgot to ...
I am a strong supporter of Israel, but even when I bought into the pre-trib nonsense, I didn’t buy a word that Hagee ever said.
He is a self-agrandising opportunist.
Marl Biltz is a “Messianic,” and it is impossible to recognize the prophecies embedded in the feasts and hold a belief in any resurrection not occurring at the Last Trump of Yom Teruah.
It’s like “white on rice.”
I have seen Hagee questioned on some doctrinal issues - that some others thought he was teaching. I read some of it, but didn’t get into it thoroughly. I think it had to do with there being two different ways to salvation. He denied he believed that or was teaching it. Sometimes (I think) the position that God has a program for the church and another program for Israel - is seen by some as stepping into there being two ways to salvation. It’s not, but I think that’s how some others may see it.
I signed up for CUFI’s e-mails, so they come in all the time, and aside from the notices about what churches they will be at, at different times and letting people know about their materials to support Israel — a good half of their e-mails are about what is going on in the world in regards to Israel, like Iran for instance, or the Congress, or Kerry or Obama, or what Netanyahu is saying or what someone else is saying in Israel or the US, or what the Islamic Terrorists are doing.
That organization — CUFI — is a great organization for generating strong POLITICAL SUPPORT for Israel, which Israel really needs.
I’m personally not into Messianic congregations, as I’m not a Jew (even though they welcome Gentiles). I think it’s good to have Messianic congregations, which accommodate Jewishness, while accepting Jesus as the Messiah of Israel, and as their personal savior.
I just looked up some information about Messianics and their congregations ... and this was one I saw ...
— Messianics observe traditional Jewish holidays such as Purim, Chanukah, etc. Christians do not.
— Messianics observe the biblical feasts of Vayikra (Leviticus) 23 such as Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement), Rosh HaShanah (Feast of Trumpets), Sukkot (Feast of Booths) and Passover. Christians do not.
— Messianics do not observe Christian holidays that were borrowed from paganism, such as Christmas and Lent or were simply concocted.
Messianics do not use Easter bunnies, Easter eggs, Christmas trees, etc., (which are part of Christian tradition in many parts of the world although they are not part of official Christian theology).
— Messianics worship on the biblical Sabbath, i.e., Friday evening till Saturday evening, not Sunday. HaShem says the Sabbath is an eternal covenant between Him and the descendants of Israel. (Sh’mot/Exodus 31:16).
— Messianics cant the Shema, and traditional Jewish blessings that most Christians have never heard of, e.g., the kiddush and the Aaronic benediction.
— Messianics cant the Torah portion in Hebrew at worship services.
— Messianic preaching is mainly from the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh), although references to the B’rit Chadasha are common.
— Messianic Judaism emphasizes the special relationship between G-d and the Jewish people, whereas Protestantism and Catholicism hardly ever mention it.
— Messianic Judaism emphasizes Jewish traditions that do not conflict with the Bible, whereas Protestantism and Catholicism totally ignore those traditions.
— Messianic Judaism asserts that the Torah (literally, “teaching”) is still in effect (as modified by Yeshua). Christianity claims that once Jesus “fulfilled the Law” it no longer applies.
— Messianic Jews bar-mitzvah their sons and bat-mitzvah their daughters. Christians don’t.
— A Jewish person who converts to Protestantism is referred to as a Hebrew Christian, not a Messianic Jew.
— Messianic Judaism and Protestantism teach the biblical doctrine that salvation is a free gift from G-d, by faith in Yeshua.
Roman Catholicism teaches that Catholics can earn (”merit”) all the grace necessary for salvation, and that Moslems will also be saved, even though Islam denies the deity, death and resurrection of Yeshua.
— Messianics do not need to be proselytized into Christianity. We already know who Messiah is and what he did to provide salvation for his people.
— Messianics use the same scriptures as Protestants, including the common translations, e.g., NIV and New King James Version. Of course, it is much more common to find a Messianic who has studied biblical Hebrew than a Christian.
— Messianics only baptize believers, not babies, and only baptize by immersion, since the practice described in the B’rit Chadasha is actually derived from a mikvah, a Jewish ritual purification bath.
http://www.messianicworship.com/html/differences.html
-— -— -— -— -—
I don’t go along with some of what I see said here, but in general, it shows the differences - and since I’m not Jewish, they don’t fit me. But, it’s quite alright for those who are Jews. They do recognize Jesus as the Messiah of Israel and their personal savior.
There is one program for salvation: Belief in Yeshua, through enduring faith, granted us by the grace of Yehova.
One program fits all.
And I affirm that. The reason why I brought up the issue is that I’ve seen the accusation against Hagee. And besides him denying the accusation, I don’t believe that he teaches that are two ways to salvation.
The Apostle Paul said that we’re saved in the same way that Abraham was.
Romans 4
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,
12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect,
15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;
18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.”
19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb.
20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God,
21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform.
22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him,
24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,
25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
Psalm 83 War
Ezekiel 38 War
Messianic keepers of the law are way off base, the way I see the book of Hebrews... it was written to Hebrew Roots, Messianic types, etc. The basic theme of Hebrews is that the one to whom everything in the law pointed to had come, the new covenant (Christ) had come, rendering the old covenant no longer valid, or “dead,” dead works of the law.
The basic doctrine of Christ, is repentance from dead works, repent of it, abandon the dead works of the law, Heb. 6:1. If they claim to be some sort of Hebrew Messianic, then that’s what they must do. The book of Hebrews was written to them. Second is to have faith towards God. Faith not the works of the law.
They, of course, either don’t care what Hebrews says, or they reinterpret it to fit their desire to Judaize. Most of them claiming we are disobedient sinners because we do not keep the sabbath, observe the feasts, and so on.
What does a blood moon have to do with Psalms 83?
I’ve seen a range of Messianics, and you can have those who seem to revert. Remember, though, that Paul did follow the religious practices of the Jews, even though there were those in his day that accused him of not following them.
That didn’t change the doctrine of Salvation, though. And the ministry to the Gentiles was given different parameters than the Jews had. We see that in Acts, when the Apostle Paul was before the Jerusalem Church
I do note that we will be keeping some of those practices, ourselves, in the 1,000 year reign of Christ, and that there will be a Temple in Jerusalem, like there was before (Ezekiel’s Temple).
Since you assert 5 seals have been opened, it will be simple to identify them. Since you don’t, it’s obvious it is simply another obfuscation.
The tetrad of Blood Moons doesn’t have anything to do with Psalm 83.
As I was saying, if I were betting on what some significant and big event would be (similar to the previous tetrads) of this particular tetrad, it would be a major war in the Middle East, involving Israel and greatly impacting the Palestinians.
Now ... having said that ... when talking about the Psalm 83 war — totally apart from this tetrad and the previous tetrads in history — that is expected to be a major war with Israel, and that is expected to be the next major war in the Middle East involving Israel.
SO ... if we take the tetrads and Psalm 83 to be two “overlays” on an overhead projector - the tetrads are on one overlay, the Psalm 83 War is on another overlay sheet.
Now, you take these two overlays (which do not connect directly with each other) and place them one on top of the other, on some sort of timeline — you could shift them back and forth on the timeline. They may match up, and then again, they may not. We won’t know until it happens.
Therefore the one is not tied into the other — either from the “Tetrad side” - or - from the “Psalm 83 side” — but, one may find that the two overlays are one on top of the other, in the exact same timeline.
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