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For Advent: Two Canons: Scripture & Tradition
JimmyAkin.com ^ | 2014 | Jimmy Akin

Posted on 12/05/2014 7:18:21 PM PST by Salvation

Two Canons: Scripture & Tradition

by Jimmy Akin

Many Protestants would say, “Apostolic traditions would be binding on us if we could identify which traditions are apostolic and which are not. Obiously we want to obey and accept anything the apostles commanded and taught in the name of God.”

That is good. Protestants who say this recognize the authority of the apostles’ teaching; they simply need to see the mechanism by which we can recognize the apostles’ teachings.

1. THE CANON PRINCIPLE

How do we do that? The answer is that we recognize apostolic tradition the same way we recognized apostolic scripture. Today we are confronted with a variety of traditions, some apostolic and some merely human. In the same way the early Church was confronted with a body of scriptures, some apostolic and some merely human.

The early Church had to sort through these documents and figure out which were authentically apostolic writings — those by an apostle or an associate of an apostle — and which were merely human writings — those merely claiming to be by an apostle. The way they did this was by applying certain tests.

2. IS THE WORD OF GOD SELF-ATTESTING?

Some anti-Catholics, such as James White, are fond of claiming that the writer of Psalm 119 knew what God’s word was even though the Catholic Church wasn’t around to tell him what it was. But unless he was a prophet or had access to a prophet, the Psalmist did not have an infallibly known canon in his day. The canon was not yet finished, much less settled.

Anti-Catholics such as White claim that God’s word is self-authenticating, that it needs no witness. This claim is simply unbiblical. In scripture people regularly had to test revelation to see if it conveyed the word of God. This was not always obvious, even to the people to whom the revelation was given.

For example, in 1 Samuel 3, when God first spoke to Samuel, the boy prophet did not recognize the word of God. He thought it was the old priest Eli calling him, so he got up, went to where Eli was resting, and said, “Here I am, for you called me!” But Eli said, “I did not call; go and lie down again.” This happens three times: God calls Samuel and the young prophet, thinking it is Eli, hops up and rushes to see what he wants. Finally it dawns on the wicked old priest that God calling to the boy, so he tells him what to do the next time the voice addresses him. It turns out the young prophet was not able to recognize God’s voice, and the wicked priest Eli had to help him recognize the word of God. Obviously, God’s word was not self-attesting to Samuel!

Similarly, in 1 Kings 13 a man of God is sent from Judah to Bethel to prophecy. God tells him not to eat or drink until he gets back. But as he returns, an old prophet of God tells him the Lord has rescinded the command about eating and drinking. The man of God then goes home with the old prophet to have dinner. But while they are eating, a revelation comes that the order not to eat or drink is still in effect; the old prophet had been lying. This shows another instance where a prophet is not instantly able to discern between the voice of God and the voice of error. The man God sent to Bethel did not detect the fact that what the old prophet told him wasn’t God’s word. This purported revelation was not self-attesting as a fake word of God.

In Deuteronomy 13 and 18, God gives two tests to know whether a prophet is speaking the word of God. If the prophet makes a false prediction or says to worship other gods, he is not speaking for the Lord. The fact God gives these tests shows revelations must be tested because it is not always obvious what is and is not God’s word.

This is why Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21, “Stop despising prophesyings! Test all things and hold fast to that which is good!” The Bible thus explicitly tells us that we must test what is the word of God and what is not, just as 1 John 4:1 says, “test the spirits to see whether they are from God.”

So the word of God is not self-authenticating in the way some Protestant apologists allege. God invites and commands us to test any revelation purported to come from him. This includes scripture. If someone offers a book that purports to be scripture, it has to be tested to see if it is apostolic writing or merely human writing.

3. THE KEY TO CANONICITY

How do we know which books belong in the Bible? The early Church’s answer was: Those books which are apostolic belong in the canon of scripture. If a book had been handed down by the apostles as scripture (like the books of the Old Testament) of if it was written by one of the apostles or their associates (like the books of the New Testament), it belonged in the Bible. Apostolicity was thus the test for canonicity.

Protestant early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly writes:

“Unless a book could be shown to come from the pen of an apostle, or at least to have the authority of an apostle behind it, it was peremptorily rejected, however edifying or popular with the faithful it might be” (Early Christian Doctrines, 60).

But how could one know which books were apostolic? Certainly not by a book’s claim to be apostolic, since there were many false gospels and epistles circulating under the names of apostles. Neither did the Holy Spirit promise a revelation to each individual Christian of what books belonged in the Bible.

But how was the test for apostolicity carried out in the early Church? Basically, there were two tests, both of them involving tradition.

First, those books were reckoned as apostolic which agreed with the teachings the apostles handed on to the Church. Gnostic scriptures and other writings which did not agree with the apostolic tradition were rejected out of hand. This is something Evangelical scholars admit.

Protestant scripture scholar F. F. Bruce writes that,

“[The early Fathers] had recourse to the criterion of orthodoxy…. This appeal to the testimony of the churches of apostolic foundation was developed especially by Irenaeus…. When previously unknown Gospels or Acts began to circulate… the most important question to ask about any one of them was: What does it teach about the person and work of Christ? Does it maintain the apostolic witness to him…?” (The Canon of Scripture, 260).

Second, those books were regarded as apostolic which were preached in the various churches as being from the pen of an apostle or the associate of an apostle — not just its doctrines, but the book itself. If a given work was not regarded as apostolic and was not preached as such in the churches, then it was rejected. This was also an appeal to tradition because it looked to the tradition of the churches as a guide for apostolicity. If the tradition of the Churches did not recognize a book as apostolic, it was not canonized.

The fact that this was also used by the early Church to establish apostolicity is also something admitted by Protestant scholars. F. F. Bruce writes:

“It is remarkable, when one comes to think of it, that the four canonical Gospsels are anonymous, whereas the ‘Gospels’ which proliferated in the late second century and afterwards claim to have been written by apostles and other eyewitnesses. Catholic churchmen found it necessary, therefore, to defend the apostolic authenticity of the Gospels…. The apostolic authorship of Matthew and John as well established in tradition. But what of Mark and Luke? Their authorship was also well established in tradition” (ibid., 257).

But of course not all of the Churches agreed. Some Protestant apologists are fond of pointing out that the Muratorian fragment, an early canon list dating from the A.D. 170s, includes most of the New Testament. But they fail to point out that the Muratorian fragment also omitted certain works from its canon. It did not include Hebrews, 1 and 2 Peter, and 3 John. Furthermore, it included works that the Protestant apologists would not regard as canonical: the Apocalypse of Peter and the Wisdom of Solomon. So there was obvious disagreement on the extent of the canon.

Eventually, the New Testament canon was settled at the Council of Rome in the year 382 under Pope Damasus I. Up to this point, its specific books were not firmly settled.

Now a Protestant apologist will either have to agree that the men at the Council of Rome included all of the right books and only the right books in the canon or he has to disagree. If he disagrees, then he is going to have to disagree with the New Testament canon in the very Bible he uses, because it was the Council of Rome that established that canon.

But if he agrees that the Council of Rome included all the right books and only the right books in the New Testament canon then he is going to have to say that the early Church made an infallible decision (infallible because they included all the right and only the right books, thus making an inerrant decision under God’s providential guidance — which is infallible guidance). They made this infallible decision three hundred years after the death of the last apostle. But if Church councils are capable of arriving at infallible decisions three hundred years after the death of the last apostle, the Protestant apologist has no reason to claim they are incapable of this later on in Church history.

4. THE CANON OF TRADITION

The fact that when the Church made its decision it did so hundreds of years after the death of the last apostle is significant, but no less significant is the fact that when it made the decision it did so on the basis of tradition.

As we noted, the Church was confronted by conflicting traditions concerning which books should be included in scripture. Some traditions, for example, said that the book of Hebrews belonged in the canon; others said it did not. One of these traditions (the one indicating inclusion in the canon) was apostolic, the other (the one indicating exclusion) was merely human. In order to decide whether the book of Hebrews belongs in scripture, the Church had to decide in favor of one tradition over the other. Thus in order to settle the apostolicity of a scripture, it had to settle the apostolicity of a tradition.

As a result, the Church can not only make rulings of what is apostolic and what is not hundred of years after the death of the last apostle, it can also rule on which traditions are apostolic and which are not — and do so centuries into the Church age.

Therefore, the Church can rule on the canon of tradition the same way it ruled on the canon of scripture. The Church is the living Bride of Christ, and she recognizes the voice of her husband. She is able to point at proposed scriptures and say, “That one is apostolic; that one is not.” And she is able to point at proposed traditions and say, “That one is apostolic; that one is not. In this one I recognize the voice of my husband; in that one I do not.”

The mechanism by which we establish the canon of tradition is thus the same as the way we established the canon of scripture. The same principle works in both contexts. The Church is the witnesses to both canons.

5. TESTS FOR THE CANON OF TRADITION

Of course the Church has tests she uses to figure out what traditions are apostolic, just as she had tests to establish what scriptures were apostolic.

One test is whether a given tradition contradicts what has previously been revealed. As anti-Catholics often point out, proposed traditions must be tested against scripture. If a proposed tradition contradicts something God has said in scripture (or something said in already known apostolic tradition) then that shows it is merely a tradition of men and may be disregarded. The Church is thus more than happy to test proposed traditions against scripture.

Of course the Church also applied the flip-side of this test: In the early centuries any proposed scripture that did not match up with apostolic tradition was rejected from the canon of scripture. Thus when, in the second and third centuries, the writings of the Gnostics taught that Jesus was not God or that the God of the Old Testament was not the God of Jesus Christ, these books were summarily rejected on the basis of not matching up to the apostolic tradition.

Naturally, once a scripture has been tested and found to be canonical it is no longer subject to testing. Once a scripture has been shown to belong to the canon of scripture, it is no longer up for debate. Similarly, once a tradition has been tested and found to be canonical it is no longer subject up for debate either. Once a tradition has been shown to belong to the canon of tradition, it is no longer up subject to testing.

A Protestant apologist would not question whether a given book of the New Testament belongs in the canon based on whether it makes a statement that is difficult to reconcile with something said in another book. Once it has been found to be canonical, we can have confidence that it is God’s infallible word and any apparent difficulties arising between it any what God has said elsewhere can be solved. In the same way, once a tradition has been tested and found canonical, we can have confidence that it is God’s inerrant word and that any apparent difficulty arising between it and anything God has said elsewhere has a solution. If we can have confidence at superficial disharmonies in the canon of scripture, we can with the canon of tradition as well.

We know that when God speaks in scripture there are apparent difficulties which arise. Liberals use these to attack the inerrancy of scripture, and so conservatives produce books showing why these supposed discrepancies are nothing of the kind. But if God speaks in scripture in such a way that apparent discrepancies arise then we should expect the same thing to happen when God speaks elsewhere as well. That gives us no cause for alarm.

6. THE CANON PROBLEM

But the Protestant apologist has an even more fundamental problem because in order to justify his principle of sola scriptura or the “Bible only theory,” he would have to claim that we know what books belong in the Bible without acknowledging the authoritative role of apostolic tradition and the Church in finding this out. If, as on the Protestant theory, we must prove everything from scripture alone then we must be able to show what belongs in the canon of scripture from scripture alone.

In fact, we cannot even begin to use sola scriptura before we have identified what the scriptures are. If one claims to know what the scriptures are then one is making a claim of propositional knowledge, and which could only be revealed by God since we are talking about a supernatural subject, meaning he is making a claim to propositional revelation. But if all propositional revelation must be found in the Bible, then the list of the canon must itself be contained in the scriptures. The Protestant apologist must therefore show, from scripture alone, what books belong in the Bible.

But this is something he cannot do. There is no canon list contained in scripture. Many books of the Bible (in fact, virtually all of the books of the New Testament) are not quoted by other books of the Bible, much less explicitly quoted “as scripture” (something on which Protestant apologists, as a matter of necessity, are very big). And the Bible gives us no set of tests by which we can infallibly prove which exact books belong in it. The fact is that there is no “inspired contents page” in the Bible to tell us what belongs within its covers.

The Protestant apologist is in a fix. In order to use sola scriptura he is going to have to identify what the scriptures are, and since he is unable to do this from scripture alone, he is going to have to appeal to things outside of scripture to make his case, meaning that in the very act of doing this he undermines this case. There is no way for him to escape the canon of tradition.

Apostolic Tradition was the key to the canon in two ways — by telling us what doctrines apostolic books must teach (or not teach) and by telling us which books themselves were written by the apostles and their associates.

Ironically Protestants, who normally scoff at tradition in favor of the Bible, themselves are using a Bible based on tradition. In fact, most honest Protestants would admit that they hold to the books they do because when they first became Christians someone handed them (“traditioned” or “handed on”) copies of the Bible that contained those books!



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: canon; canonical; canons; catholic; scripture; tradition
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To: stonehouse01
Catholics give glory to God, not man.

Then Catholics need to stop taking credit for *giving the world the Scripture* and telling non-Catholics to *thank the Roman Catholic church for the Bible*.

101 posted on 12/06/2014 12:54:17 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: CynicalBear; metmom
Those manuscripts pre-date the Catholic Church.

The only "scripture" that predates the Catholic Church is the Old testament.

102 posted on 12/06/2014 12:54:31 PM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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To: metmom

And yet no response from you on direct questions. Can I call it or can I call it?
Ping me when you decide to actually answer the questions you were asked instead of going off on a tangent.


103 posted on 12/06/2014 12:56:19 PM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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To: stonehouse01
"You mean scripture that Catholics wrote?" http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3199993/posts?page=617#617
104 posted on 12/06/2014 12:58:37 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: verga

I don’t accept tradition, no matter how it’s packaged.

It’s not up to me to prove that it’s from the apostles and has been passed down faithfully because I’m not making the claim that it has.

So why would I have to prove where the tradition is from and that it has allegedly been passed down faithfully?


105 posted on 12/06/2014 1:11:18 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: CynicalBear

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3199993/posts?page=617#617

If you don’t use HTML, the link works as is.

The minute you use any HTML, the link shows up but doesn’t go anywhere.


106 posted on 12/06/2014 1:13:07 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Salvation; Mrs. Don-o; metmom; daniel1212
From the article you posted...>Jesus did not condemn all traditions; he condemned only erroneous traditions, whether doctrines or practices, that undermined Christian truths. <

Catholics claim three verses primarily to support the use of "tradition" to justify all they do. These are 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2 Thessalonians 3:16.http://www.catholicbible101.com/sacredtradition.htm

To clarify some things first. I don't think anyone disputes a lot of the NT was spread by preaching. This is the primary form we today of sharing the Word. Each Sunday preachers around the world step into the pulpit and proclaim the Gospel message. At least I hope they do. However, these preachers are not claiming new doctrines.

Next, I don't think anyone disputes the truths of the NT that the apostles taught were passed from one generation to another. They would have to or else Christianity would have stopped with the death of the original disciples and apostles. However it has continued through the priesthood of all believers.

The disputes come into play when catholicism started claiming certain “tradition/teachings” that are not supported by the texts the apostles have written for us and left for us to spread the Word. For example, the teaching on Mary being sinless in contradiction to Romans 3:23, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Another is the infallibility of the pope which is not found in the Word. We know a man is going to be infallible as evidenced by Peter having to be admonished by Paul when Peter didn’t want to keep eating with the Gentiles. The whole office of the papacy is not supported by the texts either. That is another man-made tradition which not all of the ECFs agreed on either.

Catholicism has taken tradition and redefined it to mean what they want it to mean and this is the problem Christians have with catholicism.

But let's examine the use of tradition in the Bible. This will help us have some context as to the Biblical use of the term and its meaning. There are 13 instances of the word tradition being used.

Matthew 15:1-9 and Mark 7:1-8 deal with the traditions of men regarding the washing of hands before eating. In these verses Christ condemns this man-made action. In Matt 15:9 Jesus said, "But in vain do they worship me; teaching as doctrines the precepts of men."

In Mark 7:10-13 Christ condemns man's tradition regarding neglecting to honor your father and mother. Jesus notes: “thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Galatians 1:14 Paul is discussing his ancestral traditions as a Jew and Pharisee.

Colossians 2:8 Paul condemns the tradition of men when contrasted against the Gospel.

See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

This leaves us with the three verses claimed by catholicism to justify their tradition. In each of the verses we must ask what is Paul talking about? What tradition/instruction was he passing down?

In the Greek, the word for tradition is παράδοσις. It can mean an instruction, tradition. In the NASB it is rendered as tradition. HELPS Word-Studies notes its meaning as: to give (hand over) from close beside, referring to tradition as passed from one generation to the next. This word is uses in all thirteen uses of tradition on the NT.

Let’s start with 1 Corinthians first. Recall that context is the key to understanding a passage.

1 Corinthians 11:2 Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.

In this passage Paul is writing to the Corinthians on several topics. These deal with participating in idol feasts, whether meat sacrificed to idols should be eaten or not and the veiling of women. He also deals with the Lord’s Supper and how the Corinthians were turning it into a mess.

Next we have 2 Thess 2:15. So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

If we want to learn what these traditions were we need to read the letters to the church at Thessalonica.

Now here, the catholic may holler and say, see, told you there were oral teachings. No Christian will dispute that. However, we do not have what ALL of those oral teachings were. Nor do we need them nor were we intended to have them. We have the written Word that God has intended us to have. In the Word we have the means of learning how to be saved which is the primary topic of the Gospel.

Lastly we come to 2 Thess 3:6. Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us.

Paul clarifies what this “tradition” is in the remainder of 2 Thess 3:7-15. It deals primarily with no work, no eat. Paul was setting the example of being a good citizen by “earning” his keep and not being a burden on society.

So we have covered what the New Testament says regarding tradition.

In none of these passages do we find the catholic abuse of tradition that includes the assumption of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, her sinlessness, indulgences, the papacy and the list goes on and on. All of these go beyond the text when read in context and when applying the original languages.

Where catholicism errs is the claim that oral tradition means that revelations from God continue. Catholicism claims we should listen to the ECFs because they “received” these additional revelations from the apostles and that they were close to them. If these additional teachings were so important, why didn’t Paul write them down? When he was writing Romans 3:23 why didn’t he declare, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, except Mary, the mother of Christ? Why weren’t they included at the Council of Trent as part of the canon? That somehow the pope continues to receive new teachings and that his word cannot be challenged. That somehow God has contradicted His Word, which He does not do, and has proclaimed Mary sinless. On this Christians, and the Bible disagree.

If we follow this concept of ongoing oral revelation the Gospel is open to contradiction as we have seen this week with the pope with him declaring, “May Our Lady, the teacher of true theology….”. Since when was Mary appointed to this lofty position? The Bible notes in John 16:13….But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come

This is why Christians call into question teachings of the Roman Catholic church.

107 posted on 12/06/2014 1:28:49 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

Well said.


108 posted on 12/06/2014 1:33:42 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom
" Scripture is not authoritative because it was handed down as tradition by the church, any church.

It's authoritative based on it being by its very nature authoritative as the very word of God."

We agree.

109 posted on 12/06/2014 2:13:03 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops." - St. John Chrysostom, Bishop)
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To: metmom
By "Catholic" church I mean "universal." If you consider yourself a Christian and a member of Christ's church, you may well say your church began at Pentecost. People as far apart as Pentecostals and Orthodox do. A Lutheran pastor once told me that it's not that Pentecost is the "birthday" of the Church; it's the "Baptism" day of the Church."

And you?

110 posted on 12/06/2014 2:20:54 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Thy faithful, and kindle in them the fire of Thy love.)
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To: ealgeone

They were in the Catholic bibles from the beginning and were not ex post facto included after the CofT as you state.

Whereas your protestant brethern deleted the deuterocanonicals after the Lambeth Conferences in teh early 1920.

Now those D-C are scarce as hens teeth in modern protestant bibles.

It is precensoring pure and simple by your protestant brethren.

AMDG


111 posted on 12/06/2014 4:05:06 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GODs)
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To: metmom

I don’t accept tradition, no matter how it’s packaged.

You did at one time - now you don’t .

Its amazing how you get to pick and chose.

AMDG


112 posted on 12/06/2014 4:07:00 PM PST by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GODs)
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To: metmom; Mrs. Don-o; Salvation
Posts 68 and 72 that you are ignoring:A related question would be, "Just what were the books Paul was referring to as Scripture in, for instance, 2 Tim 3:6"? So I go on to ask:

How do you know?

How do you know they’re from the apostles?

How do you know they’ve been passed down faithfully?

What is your source for verifying all of the above?

Please provide the sources for verification purposes.

I'm interested, metmom.

So then according to you, you refuse to accept the Bible since those books were handed down by tradition. Your words:I don’t accept tradition, no matter how it’s packaged.

The books of the OT were handed down by tradition until the Canon was set. Now Catholics believe in the Alexandrian Canon, ordered several hundred years BC. Prots believe in the Palestinian canon ordered in 90 AD. Following the Palestinian canon gives several problems. This is the canon that denied Jesus. Second by what authority was it ordered?

So while you are going off on your tangents the questions still remain (See above in Italics.)

113 posted on 12/06/2014 4:11:25 PM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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To: verga

Scripture was written down.

That is not the kind of tradition that Catholics are referring to when they say that the RCC uses *sacred tradition*.

And since it was written down, it’s no longer tradition.


114 posted on 12/06/2014 6:19:54 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: BipolarBob
I think you misunderstood my point.

I knew what you were referencing and agree with you.

My comment was pointed at a person I feel takes offense at everything, when it's obvious what the statement is about.

You are correct, that your reference in 1 Kings happened centuries before the existence of the Catholic church. You were pointing out how somebody else lied and how IT COULD be done again.

As you mentioned in #51

In #51 you explained how you I certainly wasn't calling anyone here a liar but talking ,in general, that is why tradition does not hold the same weight as Scripture.

And yet 17 minutes later, in post #54, I was told to read #22 again. Basically, after what you just said in #51, they are still trying to claim that you accused Catholics of lying and I need to reread #22.

115 posted on 12/06/2014 6:46:50 PM PST by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: mountn man

Thank you.


116 posted on 12/06/2014 6:56:05 PM PST by BipolarBob (You smell of elderberries, my friend.)
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To: mountn man; Religion Moderator

**My comment was pointed at a person I feel takes offense at everything, when it’s obvious what the statement is about.**

Then why wasn’t that person named in your post address box? (One of the rules, don’t you know?)


117 posted on 12/06/2014 7:00:18 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Maybe he wasn’t trying to offend anyone.


118 posted on 12/06/2014 7:20:44 PM PST by BipolarBob (You smell of elderberries, my friend.)
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To: metmom; Mrs. Don-o; Salvation
Still not answering the question. It is accepted that Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Those are the first 5 books of the Bible). He wan' there during Genesis. I don't recall his name being mentioned as being on the Ark with Noah.

Your logic fails now Please try answering the question that was asked.

Are you starting to recall dodging this question so many times previously?

119 posted on 12/06/2014 7:37:48 PM PST by verga (You anger Catholics by telling them a lie, you anger protestants by telling them the truth.)
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To: Salvation; mountn man

It is courteous to ping a Freeper mentioned in a reply post. When posters fail to do this, we generally point it out on thread. And if the remark is apt to incite a flamewar, we usually pull the post.


120 posted on 12/06/2014 8:17:09 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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