Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Evangelicals & the Eucharist (Part 1)
The Cripplegate, New Generation of Non-Conformists ^ | May 23, 2013 | Nathan Busenitz, professor of theology at Cripplegate's The Master’s Seminary

Posted on 01/28/2015 1:23:00 PM PST by RnMomof7

Over the past few weeks, I have received no less than three inquiries regarding the early church’s celebration of the Lord’s Table and its implications for the evangelical church today. Two of these inquiries have come from Roman Catholics, each of whom has suggested that the Roman Catholic practice of transubstantiation best represents the way the Lord’s Table was observed in the first few centuries of church history.

Over the past few weeks, I have received no less than three inquiries regarding the early church’s celebration of the Lord’s Table and its implications for the evangelical church today. Two of these inquiries have come from Roman Catholics, each of whom has suggested that the Roman Catholic practice of transubstantiation best represents the way the Lord’s Table was observed in the first few centuries of church  history.

This two-part post is intended to provide an initial response to such assertions.

last_supper

The word “eucharist” means “thanksgiving” and was an early Christian way of referring to the celebration of the Lord’s Table. Believers in the early centuries of church history regularly celebrated the Lord’s Table as a way to commemorate the death of Christ. The Lord Himself commanded this observance on the night before His death. As the apostle Paul recorded in 1 Corinthians 11:23–26:

For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

In discussing the Lord’s Table from the perspective of church history, at least two important questions arise. First, did the early church believe that the elements (the bread and the cup) were actually and literally transformed into the physical body and blood of Christ? In other words, did they articulate the doctrine of transubstantiation as modern Roman Catholics do? Second, did early Christians view the eucharist as a propitiatory sacrifice? Or put another way, did they view it in the terms articulated by the sixteenth-century Council of Trent?

In today’s post, we will address the first of those two questions.

Did the Early Church Fathers Hold to Transubstantiation?

Transubstantiation is the Roman Catholic teaching that in the eucharist, the bread and the cup are transformed into the literal body and blood of Christ. Here are several quotes from the church fathers, often cited by Roman Catholics, in defense of their claim that the early church embraced transubstantiation.

Ignatius of Antioch (d. c. 110): “Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God.   . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1).

Irenaeus (d. 202): “He took from among creation that which is bread, and gave thanks, saying, ‘This is my body.’ The cup likewise, which is from among the creation to which we belong, he confessed to be his blood” (Against Heresies, 4:17:5).

Irenaeus again: “He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?” (Against Heresies, 5:2).

Tertullian (160–225): “[T]he flesh feeds on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may be filled with God” (The Resurrection of the Dead).

Origen (182–254): “Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God, as he himself says: ‘My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink’” (Homilies on Numbers, 7:2).

Augustine (354–430): “I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord’s Table. . . . That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ” (Sermons 227).

How should we think about such statements?

Obviously, there is no disputing the fact that the patristic authors made statements like, “The bread is the body of Christ” and “The cup is the blood of Christ.” But there is a question of exactly what they meant when they used that language. After all, the Lord Himself said, “This is My body” and “This is My blood.” So it is not surprising that the early fathers echoed those very words.

But what did they mean when they used the language of Christ to describe the Lord’s Table? Did they intend the elements to be viewed as Christ’s literal flesh and blood? Or did they see the elements as symbols and figures of those physical realities?

In answering such questions, at least two things ought to be kept in mind:

* * * * *

1. We ought to interpret the church fathers’ statements within their historical context.

Such is especially true with regard to the quotes cited above from Ignatius and Irenaeus. During their ministries, both men found themselves contending against the theological error of docetism (a component of Gnostic teaching), which taught that all matter was evil. Consequently, docetism denied that Jesus possessed a real physical body. It was against this false teaching that the apostle John declared, “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist” (2 John 7).

In order to combat the false notions of docetism, Ignatius and Irenaeus echoed the language Christ used at the Last Supper (paraphrasing His words, “This is My body” and “This is My blood”). Such provided a highly effective argument against docetic heresies, since our Lord’s words underscore the fact that He possessed a real, physical body.

A generation after Irenaeus, Tertullian (160–225) used the same arguments against the Gnostic heretic Marcion. However, Tertullian provided more information into how the eucharistic elements ought to be understood. Tertullian wrote:

“Having taken the bread and given it to His disciples, Jesus made it His own body, by saying, ‘This is My body,’ that is, the symbol of My body. There could not have been a symbol, however, unless there was first a true body. An empty thing or phantom is incapable of a symbol. He likewise, when mentioning the cup and making the new covenant to be sealed ‘in His blood,’ affirms the reality of His body. For no blood can belong to a body that is not a body of flesh” (Against Marcion, 4.40).

Tertullian’s explanation could not be clearer. On the one hand, he based his argument against Gnostic docetism on the words of Christ, “This is My body.” On the other hand, Tertullian recognized that the elements themselves ought to be understood as symbols which represent the reality of Christ’s physical body. Because of the reality they represented, they provided a compelling refutation of docetic error.

Based on Tertullian’s explanation, we have good reason to view the words of Ignatius and Irenaeus in that same light.

* * * * *

2. We ought to allow the church fathers to clarify their understanding of the Lord’s Table.

We have already seen how Tertullian clarified his understanding of the Lord’s Table by noting that the bread and the cup were symbols of Christ’s body and blood. In that same vein, we find that many of the church fathers similarly clarified their understanding of the eucharist by describing it in symbolic and spiritual terms.

At times, they echoed the language of Christ (e.g. “This is My body” and “This is My blood”) when describing the Lord’s Table. Yet, in other places, it becomes clear that they intended this language to be ultimately understood in spiritual and symbolic terms. Here are a number of examples that demonstrate this point:

The Didache, written in the late-first or early-second century, referred to the elements of the Lord’s table as “spiritual food and drink” (The Didache, 9). The long passage detailing the Lord’s Table in this early Christian document gives no hint of transubstantiation whatsoever.

Justin Martyr (110–165) spoke of “the bread which our Christ gave us to offer in remembrance of the Body which He assumed for the sake of those who believe in Him, for whom He also suffered, and also to the cup which He taught us to offer in the Eucharist, in commemoration of His blood(Dialogue with Trypho, 70).

Clement of Alexandria explained that, “The Scripture, accordingly, has named wine the symbol of the sacred blood” (The Instructor, 2.2).

Origen similarly noted, “We have a symbol of gratitude to God in the bread which we call the Eucharist” (Against Celsus, 8.57).

Cyprian (200–258), who sometimes described the eucharist using very literal language, spoke against any who might use mere water for their celebration of the Lord’s Table. In condemning such practices, he explained that the cup of the Lord is a representation of the blood of Christ: “I marvel much whence this practice has arisen, that in some places, contrary to Evangelical and Apostolic discipline, water is offered in the Cup of the Lord, which alone cannot represent the Blood of Christ” (Epistle 63.7).

Eusebius of Caesarea (263–340) espoused a symbolic view in his Proof of the Gospel:

For with the wine which was indeed the symbol of His blood, He cleanses them that are baptized into His death, and believe on His blood, of their old sins, washing them away and purifying their old garments and vesture, so that they, ransomed by the precious blood of the divine spiritual grapes, and with the wine from this vine, “put off the old man with his deeds, and put on the new man which is renewed into knowledge in the image of Him that created him.” . . . He gave to His disciples, when He said, “Take, drink; this is my blood that is shed for you for the remission of sins: this do in remembrance of me.” And, “His teeth are white as milk,” show the brightness and purity of the sacramental food. For again, He gave Himself the symbols of His divine dispensation to His disciples, when He bade them make the likeness of His own Body. For since He no more was to take pleasure in bloody sacrifices, or those ordained by Moses in the slaughter of animals of various kinds, and was to give them bread to use as the symbol of His Body, He taught the purity and brightness of such food by saying, “And his teeth are white as milk” (Demonstratia Evangelica, 8.1.76–80).

Athanasius (296–373) similarly contended that the elements of the Eucharist are to be understood spiritually, not physically: “[W]hat He says is not fleshly but spiritual. For how many would the body suffice for eating, that it should become the food for the whole world? But for this reason He made mention of the ascension of the Son of Man into heaven, in order that He might draw them away from the bodily notion, and that from henceforth they might learn that the aforesaid flesh was heavenly eating from above and spiritual food given by Him.” (Festal Letter, 4.19)

Augustine (354–430), also, clarified that the Lord’s Table was to be understood in spiritual terms: “Understand spiritually what I said; you are not to eat this body which you see; nor to drink that blood which they who will crucify me shall pour forth. . . . Although it is needful that this be visibly celebrated, yet it must be spiritually understood” (Exposition of the Psalms, 99.8).

He also explained the eucharistic elements as symbols. Speaking of Christ, Augustine noted: “He committed and delivered to His disciples the figure [or symbol] of His Body and Blood.” (Exposition of the Psalms, 3.1).

And in another place, quoting the Lord Jesus, Augustine further explained: “‘Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man,’ says Christ, ‘and drink His blood, ye have no life in you.’ This seems to enjoin a crime or a vice; it is therefore a figure [or symbol], enjoining that we should have a share in the sufferings of our Lord, and that we should retain a sweet and profitable memory of the fact that His flesh was wounded and crucified for us (On Christian Doctrine, 3.16.24).

A number of similar quotations from the church fathers could be given to make the point that—at least for many of the fathers—the elements of the eucharist were ultimately understood in symbolic or spiritual terms. In other words, they did not hold to the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation.

To be sure, they often reiterated the language of Christ when He said, “This is My body” and “This is My blood.” They especially used such language in defending the reality of His incarnation against Gnostic, docetic heretics who denied the reality of Christ’s physical body.

At the same time, however, they clarified their understanding of the Lord’s Table by further explaining that they ultimately recognized the elements of the Lord’s Table to be symbols—figures which represented and commemorated the physical reality of our Lord’s body and blood.

Next week, in part 2, we will consider whether or not the church fathers regarded the Lord’s Table as a propiatory sacrifice (as the Council of Trent defines it) or as simply a memorial offering of thanksgiving.

16


TOPICS: Apologetics; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Other Christian
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholicbashing; communion; evangelicals; transubstantiation
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260 ... 421-428 next last
To: Arthur McGowan; Iscool
False. In the Mass, JESUS offers himself to the Father. Jesus is the priest and victim.

He already did that Arthur ..on Calvary. He does not need to do it over and over ..

Hebrews 9:26
Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrews 9:28
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him

The OLD covenant has been replaced by the NEW covenant.

I would be interested in what difference a Roman sees in the Old and the New Covenants

221 posted on 01/29/2015 4:27:44 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Ga 4:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: CA Conservative

Bingo !!!


222 posted on 01/29/2015 4:30:19 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Ga 4:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies]

To: Arthur McGowan; CA Conservative
Do you eat the Passover lamb? Do you eat pork? Do you sacrifice animals to God?

No only Catholics continue to make sacrifices

Why not? You just said that Jesus himself could not change the Mosaic Law.

Ohhh Arthur ...The entire OT is about Christ.. He FULFILLED that law..every jot and tittle of it.. ...He did not change it

The only way to be saved is to keep the law PERFECTLY, and only Christ could do that.
That is the gift of the cross...His imputed righteousness

223 posted on 01/29/2015 4:38:10 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Ga 4:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 198 | View Replies]

To: Arthur McGowan; CA Conservative
The MORAL law is unchangeable. The Jewish RITUAL law could and did change.

Arthur what is the purpose of the Moral law?

224 posted on 01/29/2015 4:40:27 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Ga 4:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 199 | View Replies]

To: dartuser
1Co 11:1
¶ Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

...Paul was Born again .. now in the image of God

Jas 3:9
Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

Written by a saved James.. to a saved church

. but scripture is clear..man needs to be born again.. That is why we needed a 2nd Adam

1John 3:10

This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

Ephesians 2: 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary 5:1-5 Adam was made in the image of God; but when fallen he begat a son in his own image, sinful and defiled, frail, wretched, and mortal, like himself. Not only a man like himself, consisting of body and soul, but a sinner like himself. This was the reverse of that Divine likeness in which Adam was made; having lost it, he could not convey it to his seed. Adam lived, in all, 930 years; and then died, according to the sentence passed upon him, To dust thou shalt return. Though he did not die in the day he ate forbidden fruit, yet in that very day he became mortal. Then he began to die; his whole life after was but a reprieve, a forfeited, condemned life; it was a wasting, dying life. Man's life is but dying by degrees.

225 posted on 01/29/2015 5:00:20 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Ga 4:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 201 | View Replies]

To: Arthur McGowan
Why not? You just said that Jesus himself could not change the Mosaic Law.

He did not change the Mosaic law - he fulfilled the Mosaic Law at the the Cross. Until His death on the Cross, the Mosaic Law was still in force - with His death, the law was fulfilled, the veil of the Temple was torn, and man was no longer under the law but under grace.

But at the Last Supper, they were still under the Law. You really need to study these things more...

226 posted on 01/29/2015 5:42:23 PM PST by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 198 | View Replies]

To: Arthur McGowan
The prohibition on drinking the blood of the victim existed for a certain reason—that the victim’s life belonged to God. That reason ceased to exist when the victim was no longer an animal, but Jesus himself. The life of Jesus belongs to US. He gave it to us.

And yet you can provide no support for your position other than the tradition of men and your own opinion...

227 posted on 01/29/2015 5:43:42 PM PST by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 199 | View Replies]

To: Salvation; metmom; CynicalBear; boatbums; Springfield Reformer; daniel1212; roamer_1
>>But we are all sinners and fall into sin again and again. What do we do then?<<

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom

228 posted on 01/29/2015 8:06:04 PM PST by redleghunter (Your faith has saved you. Go in peace. (Luke 7:50))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: CA Conservative

Are you seriously asserting that Scripture never says that Jesus gave his life for us??? Try the Gospel of John, and every letter Paul wrote.


229 posted on 01/29/2015 10:10:05 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 227 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7

The purpose of the Moral Law is to enlighten us as to how to behave in such a way that it is possible for us to grow in charity.


230 posted on 01/29/2015 10:12:47 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 224 | View Replies]

To: Arthur McGowan
Are you seriously asserting that Scripture never says that Jesus gave his life for us???

Where on Earth did you get that? Are you reading and comprehension skills that bad? I never once suggested that Jesus didn't die for us. Put down the crack pipe and step away slowly, sir...

231 posted on 01/29/2015 10:18:22 PM PST by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 229 | View Replies]

To: CA Conservative

The Mosaic Law was passing away DURING the Last Supper. The passing away of the Old Covenant was COMPLETED when Jesus says so on the Cross.

Jesus knew that he was going to die, and how. He SAYS he is instituting a sacrament of the New Covenant. Notice that JESUS SAYS “Take this and drink. This is the chalice of my blood of the NEW COVENANT.” See? NEW COVENANT. The night BEFORE the Crucifixion.

You really should try reading the Bible sometime. In it, Jesus says a lot of interesting things.


232 posted on 01/29/2015 10:20:13 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 226 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
Are you saying that they had to abstain from the blood of animals..but human blood was ok?

No. I'm saying that they weren't even THINKING about anybody drinking human blood.

It would have been necessary for Christians to be murdering people in order to have human blood to drink? Do you think the Council of Jerusalem would be okay with that?

233 posted on 01/29/2015 10:22:49 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 214 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Right. And Jesus replied to John the Baptist: “Baaaah! Baaaah!”


234 posted on 01/29/2015 10:24:23 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 212 | View Replies]

To: Arthur McGowan; metmom; RnMomof7
In other words, to REJECT drinking Christ's blood is to say that, in his sacrifice, Christ did NOT give his life TO US as a gift. To refuse to drink the blood of Jesus is to CLING TO THE OLD COVENANT AND THE OLD SACRIFICES, refusing to accept the life Jesus has given to us.

We believe as many early Christian leaders that it is by BELIEVING in Christ that we are "drinking" His blood and "eating" His flesh when we partake of the Lord's Supper. This should be more than obvious seeing that the ACTUAL elements of bread and wine DO NOT CHANGE in any physical, observable way but we eat and drink to express our faith in what Christ did for us as well as the recognition of the body of Christ of which we are all part. What's so hard about just admitting the truth - it is a SPIRITUAL event? Nobody drinks REAL blood, nobody eats REAL human flesh - it has ALWAYS been symbolic.

No matter how many times RCs post threads boasting of their superior sacrament to that of non-Catholic Christians, the truth is that NOBODY has ever had to drink human blood and eat human flesh in observance of Christ's example. It has always been a spiritual exercise and recognition of the once-for-all physical reality of Christ's atonement.

235 posted on 01/29/2015 10:36:38 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 92 | View Replies]

To: Arthur McGowan
The MORAL law is unchangeable. The Jewish RITUAL law could and did change.

No. Not one jot or tittle. There is no distinction within Torah denoting a division between a moral and ritual law. Torah is Torah, and Torah is forever.

236 posted on 01/29/2015 10:50:10 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 199 | View Replies]

To: Arthur McGowan; CA Conservative
The Mosaic Law was passing away DURING the Last Supper. The passing away of the Old Covenant was COMPLETED when Jesus says so on the Cross.

Try again. Heb 8:13 Says the old covenant waxes old and is nigh onto passing away ... well after the cross. Elsewhere the time of it's passing is associated with heaven and earth passing away.

237 posted on 01/29/2015 11:15:44 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 232 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_1981
I assume you reject the Catholic, Orthodox, and Lutheran view of the Eucharist.

A reasonable assumption.  Except it's not that simple. While any view that holds to corporeal realism in the Lord's Supper is a serious deviation from Biblical truth, the Lutherans don't engage in the very late practice of eucharistic adoration.  This is because the Lutherans have no basis for worship of the Eucharistic elements per se. Sacramental Union does not transform the elements in terms of substance.  Rather, it puts the sign and the thing signified in a special relationship to each other, while keeping creature distinct from Creator, thus giving no occasion to even consider an idolatrous view of the elements.  All this runs in their favor.  As far as I am aware, Christianity in all its forms existed for over a thousand years before anyone thought to bend the knee of worship to the wafer as if it were, in itself, Christ bodily present.  

Do you believe
1.those who receive the elements with faith can receive the actual body and blood of Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit which works through the sacrament (Calvin: Receptionism), or


Receptionism is a term I never heard used in Reformed circles, Presbyterian, Christian Reformed, Baptist or otherwise.  I did discover the term is more commonly used among Anglicans, and they are, or at least were at their inception, Catholics sans pope.  I can make no association of the term with Calvin. That doesn't mean there is no such association.  Only that I've never heard of it.

As far as what the Reformed do hold, I believe it is most often called Spiritual Presence, the idea that the communicant is partaking of the body and blood, but that it is by operation of the Holy Spirit drawing the communicant into the presence of Christ in Heaven.  Thus the entire transaction is spiritual, orchestrated by God, not the human administrator, and involves no change of the symbolic elements, other than their meaning.

This is a position I have difficulty seeing in Scripture, but as it provides no occasion for idolatry of the elements, it is no barrier to Christian fellowship.  It is technically classed as a Real Presence position (spiritual is still real), but as that term has largely been hijacked by the Aristotelian materialists, it is perhaps less confusing to designate it as Spiritual Presence.

2.there is no form of any physical or spiritual presence of Jesus in the bread and wine; it is just a remembrance (Zwingli: Memorialism)

With one important correction:  Jesus is always present in a most real way in the fellowship of His Ecclesia. We are His body.  How could He not be present, especially in those moments when we reflect on His sacrifice for us? With that adjustment in mind, this is the position that seems to best accord with Scripture.  John 6 is not a teaching about the Eucharist.  It is a teaching about Jesus, and His capacity to satisfy our spiritual need, if we believe in Him.  Each of the other passages that directly address the Lord's Supper all square with the actual, stated purpose of the Lord's Supper,  which is to remember Him, and proclaim His death till He comes, and no Scripture supports extending that purpose to include the granting by ritual of saving grace.  Not that there is no grant of grace.  There is.  But it is initiated by God Himself, made manifest by faith in Christ, and not ever in consequence of the consumption or worship of man-made food items.  

Peace,

SR

238 posted on 01/29/2015 11:28:24 PM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 208 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

RCs point to their magisterium as the solution for having to engage in interpretation, and then show how they can interpret their interpreter.


239 posted on 01/29/2015 11:35:49 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 132 | View Replies]

To: roamer_1

You have the time frame completely wrong. Heb. 8:13 is referring to the time of the PROPHET (who has just been quoted at length), not the time of the author of Hebrews.

How could the Old Law conceivably be “close to passing away” when Hebrews was WRITTEN? It was GONE when the veil in the temple was torn open.

It helps to THINK, rather than just scouting around through Scripture looking for phrases that look like convenient weapons.


240 posted on 01/30/2015 12:16:10 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 237 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 201-220221-240241-260 ... 421-428 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson