Posted on 02/13/2015 10:04:31 AM PST by WXRGina
Re: my post 29. For anyone interested, and who goes to the Tony Palmer-Ken Copeland-Pope Francis you tube link, I spare you, rather than you having to suffer through the painfully long Anglican Bishop Tony Palmer’s introduction, you can cut to the chase, beginning at about 39:00 on the video, and hear the Pope talking about Joseph and his separated brethren.
Oh, really?
[Jesus said]: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’ “Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock. And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined.” (Matthew 7:21-27)--Those who cry out "Lord, Lord" but do not act on the words of God will not enter the Kingdom of heaven.Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” He answered him, “Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:16-17)
Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing. For we know partially and we prophesy partially, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things. At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known. So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 13:1-13)
For you were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather, serve one another through love. For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you go on biting and devouring one another, beware that you are not consumed by one another. I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh. For the flesh has desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you may not do what you want. But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ [Jesus] have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit. (Galatians 5:13-25)
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.” See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route? For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. (James 2:14-26)
Thus the Bible makes it clear that salvation is dependent on more than faith alone. Faith alone is a delusion and contrary to the teaching of the Bible.
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A severely misunderstood concept!
The kind of “belief” that the apostles taught was a total acceptance of Yeshua’s every word, total obedience to his every command, and living as he lived his life.
That is the basic minimum of discipleship.
John explained in his first epistle that if you cannot say Hoo-Rah to that, you do not know Yeshua, and are not “in him.”
Belief alone indeed! - That kind of belief is saving belief.
1John 2:
[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
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>> “This Petrine authority did not evaporate with the Reformation.” <<
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It didn’t evaporate because it never existed.
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Totally agree. This prejudice against churches and denominations that do not agree 100% with us is NOT of God. I am Evangelical Protestant but have great respect for the Catholic Church.
I wonder if those who speak so disdainfully about the Church know that the Nicene Creed - that great affirmation of Christian dogma held as authoritative for Christians, including Protestants - is recited every week in Catholic churches. Of course I have my differences on points of doctrine, but not regarding the fundamental teachings of the faith, which the Catholic Church shares with Bible-believing Protestants.
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The “Nicene Creed” is man made manipulation, not scriptural, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the worship of our savior.
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Councils of men do not vote on what is proper worship, nor truth. They only govern human corporations, not Yehova’s congregation.
A false non saving christ imprisoned in a golden prison
David Koresh, Jim Jones, the Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses all “prayed for wisdom”
This is where we get into “many are called, but few are chosen”.
Romans 9 covers it.
I’m not into the Petrine authority stuff.
And you are right about the bible and interpreting its contents. It is a collection of books written by men inspired by God. It is good for instruction, but prayer is more powerful. Interestingly, your relationship with Christ very much determines your interpretation of scripture. It’s kinda interesting.
What is beyond dispute, for those who believe in the Bible, is that the authority of the gathered apostles and presbyters to speak with the authority of the Holy Spirit did exist. See the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15). This authority still exists when the gathered bishops meet in ecumenical councils.
Christians don’t believe that the matters of the world are larger or more pressing than spiritual matters, in fact, just the opposite. The entire world could be on fire, but the condition of our souls would be more urgent.
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There is no “gathered authority.”
The council at Jerusalem didn’t call for anything against scripture; they merely deferred to the teaching in the local synagogue to impart the remainder of the biblical requirements through teaching on “every Sabbath Day.”
It was a common sense counseling, recognizing that Torah took years to learn, and could not be imparted by will.
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If salvation is on us, we ought to all be scared witless. Jesus Christ did NOT die for no purpose! He “came into the world to save sinners, of which I (Paul)” and you and I are the worst. That’s a trustworthy saying you might share with those old men (1 Tim 1:15)
Nonsense.
Either you accept or you don’t accept Petrine authority. No one gets to choose what is “their” version of the Truth.
Besides, your quote speaks to those who are faithful to the “Word of God” it does not reference whose notion of the “Word of God” is true. Christ did not set in motion a structure whereby every gets to pick and choose what “each” believes to be “their” own versions of the truth. The “perfect prayer” as the great theologian and Catholic convert John Newman said, is the Sacrifice of the Mass.
“That being said, some people’s incorrect interpretations of the bible have gotten into my Christian sensibilities, but one by one they are being rooted out through prayer and study.”
Amen, Brother! May you be blessed richly as you do.
That is why the majority of us active posters are here. We are not expecting that the Catholic apologists up here will embrace the true gospel; we pray for that; but only God can open their eyes to Biblical truth.
We are here for the thousands of Roman Catholics who never respond, who never post, but who always read ... in the hope that some may be seeking the God of the Bible, and turn away from their sins, their idols, their false doctrines, and the god of Rome.
I'm thinking if you think that the Catholic Church and the Evangelical Protestant church is saying the same thing and share those "fundamental beliefs" you need to have a long talk with your pastor or just join the Catholic Church. They are IN NO WAY saying the same thing nor do they share those fundamental beliefs.
The council at Jerusalem didn’t call for anything against scripture; they merely deferred to the teaching in the local synagogue to impart the remainder of the biblical requirements through teaching on “every Sabbath Day.”
It was a common sense counseling, recognizing that Torah took years to learn, and could not be imparted by will.
I think you need to read Act 15 again:
Because there arose no little dissension and debate by Paul and Barnabas with them, it was decided that Paul, Barnabas, and some of the others should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and presbyters about this question. (Acts 15:2)There was a local synagogue at Antioch but they ignored this and sent a delegation to Jerusalem. Nor was this delegation to meet with the Jewish synagogue officials but to the "apostles and presbyters."
This is the letter delivered by them: “The apostles and the presbyters, your brothers, to the brothers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia of Gentile origin: greetings.… It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us … (Acts 15:23, 28)They explicitly evoke the authority of the Holy Spirit for their decision. Additionally, they taught against the requirement for circumcision. Earlier, in Acts 10, Peter has a vision that negates the kosher dietary laws. Christianity is the fulfillment of the earlier Jewish covenants but it is also the deliverance from the Mosaic Law.
You have missed a key point that Paul explained several times: we cannot be righteous apart from the saving grace of Christ. God counts us righteous, not because we lead an exemplary life, following all the commandments, but because Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us.
Not at all. It is Catholic teaching that we are saved by grace alone. Just as faith without works is dead so are works without faith useless.
God counts us righteous, not because we lead an exemplary life, following all the commandments, but because Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us.
Here is the great mistake of Protestantism. We are not just imputed with righteousness but are infused with it through grace. We are not just declared righteous but are made righteous through the merits of Jesus Christ. But, as the passages I quoted clearly show, we must cooperate with the grace of God to live holy lives. The Protestant teaching of faith alone cannot be reconciled with this clear teaching of the Bible.
I was shocked! They actually believe that Christ is once again "killed" (immolated) on that altar. What utter blasphemy!
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