Posted on 06/29/2015 11:23:16 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Your interpretation of Heb. 12:22-24 doesn’t seem to square with the immediate context, nor the larger context, the entire book of Hebrews. I would say Paul is contrasting two kingdoms, one of this world, based at the earthly mount Zion, i.e., under Sinaitic law Judaism, with a heavenly mount Zion not of this world, as you said quoting Jesus, God’s “kingdom is not of this world.” This is Judaism contrasted with Christianity, in other words.
Paul wouldn’t have meant Christianity here to mean “the RCC denomination and all other denominations and groups, full of gross impurities, fomenting doctrinal divisions, etc.,” as per your comment, as there was no such thing as the RCC or Protestantism at the time he wrote Hebrews. It could hardly have been his subject. The issue was rather, was Judaism and Christianity. Obvious when you look at the subject matter of the book of Hebrews.
The parable of the wheat and tares, I would think deals with Christianity from a much larger perspective than what we see in Heb. 12.
Philippians 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
I think the Catholic Experts handled it quite well.
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Is Peter the 'rock'?
As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....
NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. NIV Luke 6:48
He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
4. As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him-- 5. you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6. For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 7. Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, " 8. and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for. But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS??? NIV Genesis 49:24-25 24. But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, 25. because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty, who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb. NIV Numbers 20:8
"Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink." NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he. NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior. NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
30. How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up? 31. For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede. NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
"There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God. NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
2. He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; 3. my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me. NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
"The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior! NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
3. The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God, 4. he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.' NIV Psalms 18:2
The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. NIV Psalms 18:31
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV Psalms 18:46
The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior! NIV Psalms 19:14
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer. NIV Psalms 28:1
To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
2. Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me. 3. Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me. NIV Psalms 42:9
I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?" NIV Psalms 62:2
He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:6
He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:7
My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge. NIV Psalms 71:3
Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress. NIV Psalms 78:35
They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer. NIV Psalms 89:26
He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.' NIV Psalms 92:14-15
14. They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green, 15. proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him." NIV Psalms 95:1
Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation. NIV Psalms 144:1
Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. NIV Isaiah 17:10
You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. NIV Isaiah 26:4
Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal. NIV Isaiah 30:29
And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel. NIV Isaiah 44:8
Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." NIV Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish. |
And now you know the Biblical position!
IO could be wrong, but "shake off the dust of your feet." is not synonymous with "Harangue them into submission."
While I may be an agnostic, I know good advice when I hear it.
Good day to you.
Is that a yes or a no?
The parable of wheat and tares is revisited in Revelations, when the Angels are sent forth to first gather the tares and take them for burning, before harvesting the wheat. Since the Bible teaches to some of us that Christians will be Raptrued away before the Great Tribulation, who would you estimate are the wheat of Revelations?
If you get interested in the Bible, try using the tools which have proven effective in understanding the Bible scenes. To whom does a passage speak and of whom? For what 'dispensation' is the passage offered to edify? What timing is evident in the passage meaning?
It is evident that you are of better than average intelligence and have the capabilities to study without immediate teaching. Enjoy your journey through Scriptures because the Bible is the only book I know of which guarantees the author will enlighten you to the meaning He intended if you will but ask for His guidance in same.
When you do get deeper into scripture you will find a particular passage which states that Christians are to contend for the Gospel, not merely talk about Jesus. We are even admonished to put on armor for the daily 'contending'. Jesus even went so far as to instruct that there had arrived a time to sell something and buy a sword. When He sent the first wave out to the Jewish homes, he told them to take nothing along for their maintenance, but the second time He sent His disciples forth He gave more explicit and directed instructions.
BYW, that dust was meant to be a witness that the folks in that house had rejected the message sent from The Lord, the Jewish folks in that house. The threshold of the Jewish home had significance beyond merely an entry to the dwelling.
Hmm, got an extraneous “s” on the end of Revelation. Meant to refer tot he book, not the particular passages generically.
A lot of people fail to study far enough to understand that one don’t they. The gathering of the tares is happening AFTER the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.
You need to study what John Baptist and Jesus were preaching about the Kingdom of "The heavens" (only appearing as such) in Matthew, versus the Kingdom of God. When you understand that, you will understand what I said:
In a foolish moment of cockiness recently, I was going to challenge the guy playing Chess with pigeons to play a correspondence game of Chess. But I snapped out of it, realizing I have forgotten most of what I had memorized all those decades ago. I would be doing not mush more than pushing pieces around the board.
An "ex" is a has-been, and a "spert" is a drip under pressure. (/bg)
That's a fact! I'm pushing 70 myself, grew up with strong Bible believing parents and still find new revelations.
Been there done that :)
Post-tribs, such as myself, in terms of a harvest, see the rapture in Rev. 14:14-16. Relating it to the parable of the wheat and the tares, the harvest of the wheat is in 14-16, the tares in 18-20. In Revelation, the tares are equivalent to those who take the mark of beast, the wheat are faithful Christians.
The mark of the beast serves to gather the tares out of God’s kingdom into the antichrist’s kingdom, the tares are thus gathered to be burnt. Not burnt then, gathered to be burnt. The wheat are then harvested as we see in Rev. 14, followed by the burning of the tares.
Pay attention, Tennessee, cause you ain’t going anywhere. Don’t forget our little discussion here. You’ll have to deal with this in the tribulation, as to whether you’ll take the mark and be tares or not.
In my view, things like the recent SCOTUS decision are already separating people out. To be finalized in the tribulation.
As a pre I see the Rapture at the beginning of Rev 4.
In terms of harvest, as we see in the wheat and tares, I think it would have to be Rev. 14. There’s where you find the harvest theme.
As a portion of the Bride. I’m not a harvest. Are you still trying to glean with Ruth, after moving into the house of Boaz? Or are you still on the road to Bethlehem of Judea?
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