Our Lady of Fatima – Her Prophecies and Warnings Remain as Essential as Ever!

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 10-12-15 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[af_vet_1981]

I'm with ealgeone on this question. Muslims are islam, Catholics are Catholicism, Protestants are Protestantism. Take away the people and the subject becomes academic.

It seems to me your academic argument is that the CCC, as well as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob deals in religions and not people as the subject.

CCC843 says "The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions". There is no switching of gears as if we're going from talking about a people and now religions.

You left out 842, whose subject is all nations. Afterward the truths and errors of religions in the context of salvation is discussed.

BTW, while we're at it, this heading is CCC839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways." The Jews HAVE received the Gospel, for the most part they've rejected it. This whole section needs a traditional rewrite. Precision doesn't seem to be high on the list of goals this time around.

I'm not shocked that this ended up at the Jews' door, so to speak. I think I now understand how your reasoning led you to publicly deny the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

[af_vet_1981]

Face it af....you tried a little slight of hand with your definitions and now you've been busted and you're trying to deflect. I think you're attempts have been exposed enough. As always, it's a learning experience with you. Have a good day.

False

And yes, I do follow Christ....

And yet, it seems to me, you have publicly accused me of deceit and lying. You wirote that you used the word clintonian twice, and now are seemingly mind reading again with other phrases pointing to the same false conclusions, all while you profess to follow Christ. Do you think you are writing those posts while walking in the Spirit or the flesh ?

do you ??

Yes, therefore I forgive you for the slurs and bearing false witness against me. There is a beautiful prayer to forgive those who have trespassed. "... may no one be punished on my account . I try to remember it every night with the two greatest commandments.

[Legatus]

I think I now understand how your reasoning led you to publicly deny the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Please, enlighten us with your newfound understanding.

[kinsman redeemer]

When you’re ready to actually engage the subject I addressed please let me know.

That's a reasonable appeal but it won't work.

[Legatus]

That's a reasonable appeal but it won't work.

It worked for awhile but now we're back to parsing words in ways they were never intended to be used. What you're seeing in this thread is the intellectual hoop jumping that VatII Catholics have to go through to reconcile their faith with the traditional teaching of the Church. Heck, I've been jumping through those same hoops for years.

I think it has to do mainly with the personality cult that grew up around JPII. Everyone shifted to the right when BXVI was elected now they're all shuffling left again. They keep drawing these lines in the sand over which none may cross, then the pope crosses them and they all pretend they never existed.

We can see reflections of what's going on in the US political realm with neo-cons conserving nothing and moving dutifully with the shifting sands of the culture. It's a pitiful mess.

[af_vet_1981]

Please, enlighten us with your newfound understanding.

Radical Traditionalist Catholics vehemently object to Vatican II, blessed John Paul II, and despise the Jews, all the while pretending to be the true Catholics.

Exhibit A: Mel Gibson, son of Hutton Gibson

[Legatus]

blessed John Paul II

I think you mean Saint John Paul II. We're like 5 days from his feast day after all...

Stuffing me in the rad trad pigeon hole simply won't work. I realize it might make things more comfortable for you to dispense with me thus but you don't have to be a radical traditionalist to object to Vatican II and I have no idea where you got the idea that I despised the Jews.

None of that changes the fact that the muslims don't worship God.

[kinsman redeemer]

I think you're attempts have been exposed enough.

BINGO!

Next card, please.

[kinsman redeemer]

...publicly deny the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

... Count me in, too!

[af_vet_1981]

1. I think you mean Saint John Paul II. We're like 5 days from his feast day after all...
2. Stuffing me in the rad trad pigeon hole simply won't work. I realize it might make things more comfortable for you to dispense with me thus but you don't have to be a radical traditionalist to object to Vatican II and I have no idea where you got the idea that I despised the Jews.
3. None of that changes the fact that the muslims don't worship God.

1. In post 385 you wrote "I think it has to do mainly with the personality cult that grew up around JPII." and in post 343 you wrote "Cardinal Schönborn snuck that past JPII too." Now you complain because I wrote he was "blessed" rather than "Saint."
2. Radical Traditionalist Catholics despise Vatican II, blessed Pope John Paul II (who is a saint), and are antisemitic. Yes, and there is a bit of Holocaust denial thrown in too. They would like to return to the good old days of Father Coughlin.
3. No, you changed the subject. It came bubbling to the surface, so to speak. You wrote in post 381 "BTW, while we're at it, this heading is CCC839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways." The Jews HAVE received the Gospel, for the most part they've rejected it. This whole section needs a traditional rewrite. Precision doesn't seem to be high on the list of goals this time around."
   
   
   
   I certainly trust Cardinal Schonborn more to write about the Jews than one who publicly denies the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Cardinal Schonborn the Archbishop of Vienna a great friend of Israel writes: "...No infidelity on the part of Israel, no sin of the people, not even the misjudgment and rejection of Jesus the Messiah, can ever destroy God’s fidelity to “Abraham and his posterity for ever”. And so Paul writes to the Christian community in Rome: “[A]s regards election they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable” (Rom 11:28-29). Twice Paul asks the question, and twice he gives the resounding reply: “I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means!” (Rom 11:1, 11).

[af_vet_1981]

...publicly deny the Catechism of the Catholic Church. ... Count me in, too!

Okay, since you responded to post 381, specifically to this portion about the Jews,

BTW, while we're at it, this heading is CCC839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways." The Jews HAVE received the Gospel, for the most part they've rejected it. This whole section needs a traditional rewrite. Precision doesn't seem to be high on the list of goals this time around.

I will count you among those who object to the language in the Catechism of the Catholic Church regarding the Jewish people.

This is what you chose to deny.

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

[af_vet_1981]

Please, enlighten us with your newfound understanding.

Radical Traditionalist Catholics vehemently object to Vatican II, blessed John Paul II, and despise the Jews, all the while pretending to be the true Catholics.

Exhibit B: Society of St. Pius X (SSPX)

[Legatus]

Radical Traditionalist Catholics vehemently object to Vatican II, blessed John Paul II, and despise the Jews, all the while pretending to be the true Catholics.

You just failed the Turing Test.