Posted on 10/13/2015 8:08:21 AM PDT by Salvation
They are not on the Catechism 841 list since that list refers to nonChristians and does not include Protestants (separated brethren who are Christians) or those Protestant devolved denominations, sects, cults., some of whom are incompatible with the historic Christian faith. They do profess to worship and adore the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
I understand what the word Allah means, God. The Muzzies, along with others, engage in "cult speak." We have to almost define every word and every term we use. When I say "God," it brings up the Trinity, the loving Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with the Son being the one who died for me. When a Muzzie says "God," it conjures up a whole different concept in his mind, one of a difficult to approach, tyrant type of God, with no son and no Holy Spirit. The Muzzies worship a God that does not exist, and if they worship any God, it is the god of this world, Satan. They do surely engage in cult speak.
You brought mormons up, I was merely asking if you intended to include them as you did. They profess to worship a “god” who lives on the planet kolob with his wife. The CDF has ruled their baptisms invalid... do you realize how far out there a group has to be for their baptisms to be invalid?! An atheist can validly baptise but a mormon can not... think that through for a bit.
Mormons believe in a different god than we do, and so do the muzzies. Cardinal Schönborn snuck that past JPII too.
Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Mormons are a restorationist movement that devolved from Protestantism. They profess to worship and adore the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They are in serious error, and it is a historic tragedy as they, as a group, are more traditionally family and Bible oriented than many of their erstwhile Protestant cousins. They rejected Catholic/Orthodox Christianity and fell into heresy, writing new texts they claim are from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In this they are similar to the Moslems and other Protestant devolved cults.
In Galatians 3 Paul did call them foolish. The Greek has a different meaning than how we apply the word but the point is that Paul did/would rebuke people as warranted.
Did you read the text and realize those Galatians that the Apostle called foolish were professing Christians and not unbelievers ? Do you realize he wrote to them as their spiritual father ?
Thank you for the lecture on a subject I am already familiar with. When you’re ready to actually engage the subject I addressed please let me know.
I don't know dude, maybe you should ask Legstus. Look at his last sentence in post 343. I agree with him. They have a different God. They can claim all day and all night, that they worship the God of Abraham. They don't. They are not just in error as you say. They are totally DEAD WRONG. Listen to Legatus. He is right. They do NOT worship the same God we do. I suppose it is better that people laugh at some, than to have God at them. Prov 1:26, Ps 2:4 and Ps 59:8.
LOL. Hang in there bro. 😂
We know catholics worship/adore Mary to be sure. Reading CCC841 I'm not sure of the rest.
I don't know if all catholics worship/adore Mary. I went to catholic schools all the way through high school. All I know for sure, is that when I was a Catholic, sometime back in the last century, 😂 I did. I can't speak for all of them. This is what the priests and nuns taught us to do. Maybe other priests and other nuns taught different things, but the ones I went to school under, taught us that. BTW, the public school used to beat us in hockey, by double digits. I never forgave them for beating us Catholics the way they did. I still cheer for anyone who beats them. 😂😀😃 I took my hockey seriously. Go Blackhawks.
Please do not take my comment out of context. My point is that the three major Abrahamic religions; Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, all trace their origin to the same God. However, it is only through Christianity that God has fully revealed Who He is through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The other two religions are in error.
It doesn’t matter how other religions define God. He is Who He is as He doesn’t change.
This is exactly my point! Regardless of how other religions define God, He does not change. It is a historical fact that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all trace their origin to the same God of Abraham. But it is only through Christianity that God has fully revealed who He is through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. The other two religions are in error.
But you are wrong. Islam does not trace its origins to The God Who IS. Christianity and Judaism are the work of I AM. Islam is the work of satan, not the God of Judaism and Christianity. From the very start of Islam, mo ham head denied the God of Judaism, changing the nature of I AM to be a murderous enforcer of dictatorial rule.
If I've got the time period right, it was amended in the 1960s through Nostra Aetate (1965) and Lumen Gentium (1964) If that is incorrect, someone please provide the correct dates.
Nostra Aetate seems to take further what is in the catechism.
The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men;
STOP!! WHAT?????
There can be no doubt here Catholicism is equating muslims and catholics worshipping the SAME God.
Who else are they referring to in this section??
The false god of Islam is not, never has been, and never will be God as revealed in the Word.
they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham,
WHAT???
with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead.
Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Are they saying catholics and muslims worship the same God??
Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom. http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html
On religions:
Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions.
However, if these are correct, they certainly (?) knew the difference between who Islam worships and catholics worship.
So why put it in there?
yep.
Islam is a mixture of Christian heresy and paganism. I think that our non-Catholic brethren here are firmly convinced that there's too much paganism in the heresy for their god to be God. I agree with them.
I realize I'm going out on a limb in disagreeing with the CCC but our differences with islam go beyond whether mohammed was a prophet (we all agree he wasn't). Islam and Christendom disagree on the very nature of God Himself.
I think the argument that tries to include islam in the family of Abrahamic religion misses the point that the Hebrew religion is not a man-made religion, it is founded by God. Islam was not. That alone should have been the red flag that Cardinal Schönborn apparently missed when he was compiling and editing the CCC for pope St. JPII.
Affirmative sir.
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