Posted on 01/13/2016 11:29:11 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator
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‘Amen.
When I saw Ben Stiller, I turned the video off.
You totally missed my favorite part of Isaiah!
I believe you've closed yourself to any argument favoring Christianity so I won't try to persuade you otherwise.
Theology aside, I'm going to tell you who Yeshua is to me personally. I grew up a broken young man. An absentee father contributed greatly to that brokenness. I was a follower of the crowd, my instincts and my desires. If anything, Jesus was a distant, impersonal and at best a historic figure. My path, a path of self, was unsustainable. I had become a reveler, drunk, drug addict and whoremonger.
There came a day when I came to the end of myself and confessed to a Christian that I was a broken man. He prayed with me and that began a journey with Jesus, which has brought me to now. My Redeemer lives because He lives in me. I have experienced the power of the Holy Spirit. When I read scripture, both OT and NT, it resonates with Messiah and the power of His Word. I have experienced the same Jesus and Holy Spirit as they are witnessed in scripture.
We could argue all day about the validity of Jesus and the NT so I'll leave you with this. When I was at my lowest point in life, Jesus showed up and saved me. My guess is that there are many in this forum who've experienced the same Jesus!
I bid you Shalom!
Would a similar experience by a hindu or b*ddhist or moslem "prove" those religions are true?
I can't speak to the experience/reality of others - only my own.
Would a similar experience by a hindu or b*ddhist or moslem "prove" those religions are true?
I can't speak to the experience/reality of others - only my own.
Exactly. And though this may come as a surprise to you, your personal subjective experience/reality has exactly nothing to do with external objective truth.
Truth is found at Sinai, not in your personal experience.
Thanks for the video ping, ZC.
Re the hostile spirits that invaded the thread..
The way of peace they know not.
And that is your own personal subjective truth.
It's based on faith, just as other people's religious beliefs are.
If you have an experience that other documents don't contradict (because there are no other documents relating to the same experience), you have an experience that no other documents confirm (because there are no other documents).
So you're back with faith or self-assertion (like everyone else)
And the endless lectures on paganism: you ought to have an inkling by now that you're quite as pagan as those you condemn (and everybody else), you just believe you aren't.
Re the hostile spirits that invaded the thread..
The way of peace they know not.
It happens every time. The only way to stop it (theoretically) is to caucus the thread, which I don't like to do.
To caucus a thread is to shut off the cosmic irony:
“By their fruits ye shall know them.”
Truth is found at Sinai, not in your personal experience.
And that is your own personal subjective truth.
It's based on faith, just as other people's religious beliefs are.
Actually, Judaism is the only religion in the world built on knowledge rather than faith. The Jewish people (along with the `Erev Rav) stood and actually heard the Voice of G-d--not some man claiming to represent or "be" G-d. This has never been forgotten and has been handed down from generation to generation ever since that time.
The Sinai Revelation is the only claim of direct, public national revelation in human history. No other religion even makes the claim; they disappear into the mists of history or else were founded by a human being.
I usually post this once a year at Shavu`ot, but apparently you haven't seen it yet.
Your personal dislike of me seems equalled only by your rejection of the very concept of objective religious truth.
Maybe you ought to go all the way and convert. Most Jews aren't so keen on attacking other people's religions. They believe what they believe and believe that it's true but don't waste time trashing alternative traditions.
PS What makes you think I don't like you? A lot of what you do is tiresome -- even offensive, but you're certainly amusing, and that does count for something.
Again . . . they were there. They remember. The Revelation of Sinai isn't based on the authority of the Bible; the authority of the Bible is based on the Revelation at Sinai.
Maybe you ought to go all the way and convert. Most Jews aren't so keen on attacking other people's religions. They believe what they believe and believe that it's true but don't waste time trashing alternative traditions.
For the better part of two centuries the practice of Judaism has been turned into a "canary in the coal mine" for secularism. We are told that the world must be made a moral sewer so Jews can safely davnen (since "decent people" would supposedly be sickened and put a stop to it). Liberal Jews (who have been in absolute control of the "official" Jewish communal structure) have clung to the philosophy of Voltaire and Tom Paine as if it were the messiah. At one time, believe it or not, Jews actually proselytized, not for conversion to Judaism, but to the Noachide Laws. The radical relativism of Jewish anti-chrstian rhetoric in these later centuries are the result of chrstian persecution and "enlightenment" "liberation."
Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi has debated chrstians and atheists to prove that Judaism is exclusively true, and according to him he gets requests even from places like the Ukraine where people want the real thing.
And again, you neglect the primitiveness of worldview. I'm where I am because of a bunch of rustic militant-Theocratic warrior shepherds, not Albert Einstein or the I.M. Peretz Workers Circle. Maybe you should try reading the Bible and see what Jews were like before they were cowed and tamed by the one-two punch of chrstianity and secularism.
PS What makes you think I don't like you? A lot of what you do is tiresome -- even offensive, but you're certainly amusing, and that does count for something.
Why do you deny what you then immediately admit?
Do regard all religious certainty as evil, or just mine?
If you believe that all religions are equally valid or that conservatism should rest on something other than G-d's Laws, why the blazes are you even here?
Let me ask you, how do you determine something to be true?
That the Jews--perhaps as many as three thousand people--stood at Sinai and heard the Voice of G-d is known because they were there. How often do I have to say that? They . . . were . . . there. They never forgot. They passed it on to all their descendants in an unbroken line. Unlike so many chrstians, who believe in G-d because the Bible tells them to, they believe in the Bible because G-d told them to. This is the only claim of national revelation in history. It is also the only self-vindicating religious claim in history. The story of Sinai could not have been created and injected later. It actually happened. And because it happened, we know the Torah is from Heaven. This means the Torah sits in judgment on all later claims of revelation--every one of them.
Have you read this article yet? It explains things quite nicely.
The amazing thing is that as a chrstian you actually accept the Revelation at Sinai. But you don't accept it because your ancestors were there and the experience has been handed down to you in an unbroken chain. You accept it because the event is described in your bible (you accept J*sus for the same reason--he is in your bible). Yet you refuse to recognize that this revelation which you yourself accept simply does not allow for any new religions or religious beliefs other than those received at Sinai. If you could cast off your blinders and read the Torah without your a priori belief in chrstianity you would see that the Torah warns over and over and over and over again to never deviate from it ever. But you can't accept this because you assume from the get go that the "new testament" is part of the "very same bible."
As a matter of fact, all verses that threaten the exile of the Jewish People and the destruction of the Temple in the Torah make it clear that this is a punishment for deviating from the Torah. Chrstianity quite dishonestly denies this plain fact and instead insists the punishment is not for switching to the new religion when the old one had "expired!"
Would it do any good in the world to explain to you that I'm not Jewish? That I used to be chrstian? That I used to believe exactly as you do? All you have to do is drop your a priori assumptions.
I suppose you also won't believe me when I tell you (and once again, I used to believe exactly as you do) that your version of "chrstianity" is not the real thing. Protestantism (or "bible chrstianity" if you prefer) did not exist until the sixteenth century. The actual historical chrstian religion is the one practiced by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Nestorians. There is no such thing as an ancient "bible church" anywhere in the world. All the ancient churches (some of which were outside Rome altogether and which Constantine never had anything to do with) have priests, confession, the "holy sacrifice," pray to Mary and the saints, etc. Every . . . single . . . one. Go to YouTube and watch some of their services. Do you think Constantine somehow caused an ancient "Baptist" church in Ethiopia to become the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church? Constantine never had anything to do with Ethiopia, or Armenia, or Persia, or India. Go ahead . . . watch a worship service of any of those churches. Why be a chrstian if the "chrstianity" you practice isn't even authentic?
Oh and, btw, every one of those ancient churches reject the Protestant concept of justification, once-saved-always-saved, and that salvation consists entirely of the vicarious eternal damnation of J*sus in our place. In fact they spend their entire lifetimes obeying commandments and praying and hoping that they don't go to hell when they die, because they can never be sure. May I ask why in the world a new religion of commandments was needed when the original Biblical religion already had the same thing? Historical chrstianity is an imitation of Torah Judaism. Protestantism is logical enough to see this and therefore must defend the myth that the "original chrstianity" was identical to today's "bible chrstianity" and that Constantine corrupted it.
I had to face every one of these facts. You may choose not to, but they are still the facts. I'm afraid that outranks personal experience.
Says who? In the Hebrew Torah, the only one God gave, the ex post facto Christian “aha” theories can be seen as a treasure hunt via cherry picking and frank mistranslations of the Hebrew. Christians read their Torah in translation. These “proofs” are wishful thinking at best. One could create a myriad of theories using such an approach.
What you believe concerning Christians is not true. Jews.... walked with Yeshua Messiah and heard and saw in Him - God. They witnessed His life personally. They never forgot what they witnessed. They proclaimed their witness, which was also recorded, and passed it on to all their spiritual descendants in an unbroken line. I am one of their spiritual descendants. I believe their report and equally important, I believe what my heart tells me concerning Jesus. Jesus is Messiah revealed in both OT and NT and in my heart.
In fact they (Christians) spend their entire lifetimes obeying commandments and praying and hoping that they don't go to hell when they die, because they can never be sure.
This is not true. Christians believe that Yeshua and not the Commandments are the way of salvation. Our hope is in the finished work of Yeshua as reparation for sin and reconciliation to Abba. If there are so-called Christians teaching otherwise, they are denying Christ.
I met the Messiah of Israel as Rome’s Jesus. He didn’t let me stay there.
You are conversing with someone who knows Rome has created another Jesus and another gospel. (The new testament warns this will/would happen)
There is a Savior, I prefer the English name Joshua,who was the Word (Torah) made flesh’, as it is quite a different story when one puts the ‘old Testament’ and the ‘new Testament’ together instead of using Rome’s catechism and calendar..
The Word made flesh was born on an appointed day He taught Israel (a New Moon Day-1st Day of the Father’s 6th month) - a day when the woman was ‘clothed’ with the sun and the moon was ‘under her feet’.
He Was circumcised on the weekly Sabbath (8th Day of same month)
Presentated in the temple 40 days from His Birth- on the 10th day of the 7th month( Yom Kippur, day of atonement)
He was baptised on His 30th birthday, a New Moon Day.
He began His ministry 40 days later, as the New Testament details, on the 10th Day of His 7th month(Yom Kippur, day of atonement)
He laid His life down as the Lamb, on the Feast of Passover (14th Day of the 1st month)
He laid in the tomb, resting on the Sabbath, on the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread(15th day of the 1st month)
He rose from the grave on the 1st day of the week( day after the Sabbath, the ‘16th’ day of the month, the wave sheath) as first Fruits of those who has fallen asleep.
Quite a difference between Rome’s Jesus and the scriptural Jesus/Joshua..
And it isn’t going to be seen by calling yesterday Thor’s Day of today, Fri’sday(some false goddess nobody has heard about)
Everything in this world is counterfeit because it starts with the false premise that Rome has been entrusted with His Truth of the Son or of His Calendar.
Neither is true.
Both are copies.
Ezekiel 46:1 is the plainest place to see His Calendar template and even if one ignores the ‘New Testament’, studying His Creation, one could see how the new ‘Testament’ theme is placed above the heads of Israel when they assemble for His Feasts in the spring and fall.
When Israel is assembled in the spring for His Passover ‘today’, His sun is traveling through the ‘2 Fish’ constellation.
A couple thousand years ago, the sun was traveling in the ‘Ram’ during the spring.
Old testament (Genesis to Malachi)
Then:Adult Lamb/Ram at Passover
New testament
Now: I will make you Fishers of Men
When Israel is assembled in the fall for His Fall Feasts ‘today,’, His sun is traveling through the ‘Woman’ constellation.
A couple thousand years ago, the sun was traveling
in the ‘scale/a balance’ in the Fall..
Old testament (Genesis to Malachi)
Then: leveling of the scale for sin at Atonement
Now: the Bride of the Messiah-Church
Above our heads the fullness of His Plan is up there. As a sign.
People who have read the new testament will recognize the 2 fish and the Bride/Woman.
And they sit above the world’s heads as a witness..
That is something most Christians don’t understand. If they did, they would start to study His Feasts and be led to Truth that would unite Jew and Gentile.
Because both Jew and Gentile start with the same false premise.
That Rome, who is in charge of ‘time’ with its Pope Gregory calendar, has created another Jesus that is all Roman.
Imagine the unity if believers in the Son knew that everything He did in His life was taught to Israel first. New Moons, Sabbaths, Feasts. All of His major life events occurred on those days.
I can tell the story of ‘Jesus’/Joshua using Leviticus..
Rome can’t.
They only have been responsible for counterfeiting it..
December 25 is not Truth.
January 1st, 8 days later, is not the circumcision day (but the world calls it Holy thanks to Rome)
February 2nd, 40 days from December 25 is not the day He was presented in the temple( but Rome treats it that way- even secular people have that day as a ‘holy’ day(groundhog day)
Rome only can continue with this teaching if people rely on them to tell them what day it is.
I am blessed to have been led out of the world by the Creator and Redeemer. Not accepting the world’s premises. In essence, being at enmity with the world.
It’s why I know today is His 4th Day, the 5th day of His 11th month. A day commemorating His Creating the sun,moon,and stars for signs,moeds-,days and years.
And Rome has nothing to do with it.
And it is only by observing those created things like His sun, moon and stars, in light of the fullness of Truth (Genesis to Revelation) can one see just how counterfeit this world is.
Islam,Judaism and Christianity can’t understand this.
It’s because they have faith in some misplaced places- 1st of which, is Rome.
Friday,Saturday,Sunday is a counterfeit template.
And one little verse, Ezekiel 46:1, can bring Babylon down in one’s life. But it would be uncomfortable..
You are coversing with someone who has taken that journey. That understands Islam,Judaism, and Christianity stumble into and out of Truth, yet have the chutzpah to think they know the Truth.
Today being ‘Friday’ isn’t biblical Truth. Am tonight isn’t ‘holy’. Neither is tomorrow. Neither is the day after tomorrow. All the major religions whiff on Truth this month.
Until one is blessed to understand that, they wont be able to see Truth, even if it shines above their heads or is on their face.
The enemy is subtle.
May the Creator and Redeemer bless people of faith with eyes to see it and ears to hear Truth.
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