Free Republic

Yup. Opportunity in prohibition. One day Jose Kennidizo will have a son Jesus Futzgerald Kennidizo become El Presidente of the DS (Diverse States) on the money made smuggling into the occupied territories. Si se pueda.

And in other news gang related gun conflated deaths continue to rise in the Hollyweird State.

Not much bigger or more expensive than a 9mm AR SBR and no tax stamp BS. Still the Keltec Sub 2000 is half the price and similar size. Bull pups also suck for left handed shooters. But it is good to see new designs and a 9mm out of a 16” barrel is easy on the wallet and within a 100 yards against non armored targets is plenty capable.

The sights suck. No place to mount an optic or light. No threaded muzzle for muzzle toys. For that price you can build a 300BO SBR and get a cheap can and pay for both tax stamps. On the other hand it does have a certain Teutonic good looks and diversity is our strength, right?

It was California’s stupid laws that created the 80% lower market. There are unintended consequences afoot. This legal ejaculate will result in tens of thousands of newly uncastrated ARs in the state and for every one registered another one or two with the same bonafides will be stashed away. Since the guns won’t be transferable, fence sitting relatives will want to buy their own sport utility rifle while they can. Others will learn the joys of high powered bolt action rifle shooting at stand off distances. And still others will finally take up reloading. Gun stores in neighboring states will prosper. Pump action, straight pull, or eject and lock non-semi auto actions will enter the market. Other styles of featureless furniture will come onto the market. Maybe great for the PCP air gun market. Someone like Joe Kennedy is going to get rich off this camel toe under the tent prohibition non sense. I smell opportunity for the bold and the creative.

That’s my take too. The left loves mass transit for lots of reasons. It’s a central planner’s dream: people travel on someone else’s optimized master schedule. Individual choice and the freedom mindset that comes with autonomous travel gets suppressed in a friendly sort of way. Plus serfs on trains are easier to police for contraband like guns. People don’t need guns on mass transit; we have paid security people. Works well in Seattle and Long Island subway.

“So you blame Bush instead of the Islamofacists wielding the guns? Bizarre.”

I most certainly did not. You have confused me with someone else. I clearly stated the criminal is at fault. But our public servants are guilty of contributory negligence. Not wanting to discuss that is itself a form of political correctness.

Your historical/hysterical characterization of the Japanese internment without due process doesn’t hold up. There were no subsequent convictions of any interned Japanese for spying or sabotage. Even J. Edgar Hoover was against the move. Many of the grim realities of that war on the home front (bogus rationing, wage and price controls, women in the work force) sewed the seeds of a destabilized american family and culture and the growth of centrally planned big government intrusions that today conservatives have all but given up on fighting. As to PC reaction, that was supported and approved by none other than Ronald Reagan, hardly a practitioner of hollow PC glutei kissing.

I also indicated that the specific example of the mishandled Japanese internment is not an indictment of the limited and targeted use of such tactics with due process. Militant islamists represent a far more real and demonstrable threat than the Japanese farmers in California were. Mexican gangs represent an even greater threat to public safety and social stability than a few rock worshipping fetishists. In all cases, the bad guys are encouraged by the environment of victim disarmament zones.

If it takes more than a few seconds for someone with matching force to put suppressive fire on the perp, then the OODA loop is stalled at the Act stage long enough for mayhem to be successful.

Put another way, any time there is delay in the feedback loop (and here the feedback is to return fire to the threat) there will be failure to control. This is true of social control situations as much as with a servo mechanism. The dial-911 mentality always creates delay by removing the authority to act from the knowledge that there is a problem to be countered.

Fortunately these attacks are rare, so the policy is seen as pragmatic as well as PC feel-goodism. The policy’s effects on general social morals and character is far more corrosive than its failure as a practical security matter.

Specialization and division of labor works most efficiently and effectively in so many situations that the fallacy is in believing that self-defense can also be delegated to specialists. Centrally planned constraints and solutions will never solve this problem. At some point trust in individuals has to be applied. We trust cops not to get drunk and shoot each other, and the few that do are the exception. If the military can’t do that, perhaps they better dialog to consensus some more about the utility of their diversity programs (speaking of PC reactions). Japanese Americans have the lowest crime and homicide rate of any identifiable ethnic group. Perhaps the US military needs to rethink what cultures would best make up their ranks for attributes such as self control, loyalty, adaptability, social cohesion, and coping skills.

The problem we are facing(internal security) is an economic and moral problem as much as one of tactics. This has nothing to do with supporting or not supporting government or the military. It has to do with understanding that the character of the problem we are facing has more dimensions than 1)ID bad guy and 2)eliminate bad guy. But even if it were that simple, gun control as a blanket policy clearly works against that as an effective strategy.

“The damage they can cause in the first few minutes is dramatic.”

There-in lies the problem. If it takes more than a few seconds for someone with matching force to put suppressive fire on the perp, then the OODA loop is stalled at the Act stage long enough for mayhem to be successful.

Put another way, any time there is delay in the feedback loop (and here the feedback is to return fire to the threat) there will be failure to control. This is true of social control situations as much as with a servo mechanism. The dial-911 mentality always creates delay by removing the authority to act from the knowledge that there is a problem to be countered.

Fortunately these attacks are rare, so the policy is seen as pragmatic. The policy’s effects on general social morals and character is far more corrosive than its failure as a practical security matter.

Specialization and division of labor works most efficiently and effectively in so many situations that the fallacy is in believing that self-defense can also be delegated to specialists. Centrally planned constraints and solutions will never solve this problem. At some point trust in individuals has to be applied.

“Then arm every man woman & child under the same logic.”

Then ALLOW THE INDIVIDUAL CHOICE OF armS TO every man woman & EMANCIPATED child under the same logic OF NATURAL LAW.

There, fixed. If people don’t choose to arm themselves for their own defense when they aren’t constrained, then they are no smarter than tree huggers who go into bear country with nothing more to shoot than a camera. SELF defense is not delegatable. But those who optionally-disarmed the victims created the environment where a single shooter could be highly effective. The criminal is at fault, but his effectiveness in mayhem is enhanced or inhibited by the official environment.

It is a logical fallacy to argue from the specific to the general (a photoradar inspired murderer is not a reason to change Arizona’s liberal self defense and weapon’s regulations). Millions of kook-balls get mad at traffic everyday with the only damage being to their own blood pressure but that is hardly news.

In general, allowing people to make their own choices regarding their own self reliance and safety is a character building experience, and a military base should be one of the better, safer learning laboratories for creating adults. Something the military might be expected to consistently encourage.

The over reaction by ‘isolation’ of innocent Japanese you cite is a dreadful black mark on our history and was never proven socially or militarily useful, and has been officially repudiated. But that doesn’t negate the argument in the general case that virulent and pathological subcultures such as some gangs, militant Islamism, or inter-generational communists on Medicare might benefit a free society by getting a free cattle-car ride before being treated for lead deficiency.

Re:”I know for a fact that sometimes there is some friction between the cops & firemen.”

As recent as a few years ago in France the gendarmes and firemen fought each other in street riots over some public policy dispute. We can always look to the French to make the day look a little brighter.

These things are going to happen when public servants forget to charge their Tazers during disorderly conduct encounters (sarcasm).

We seriously need to consider free market policing services in this country. Actions such as this come from a monopoly-induced entitlement attitude. Voting is no longer an adequate tool for firing failed public servants and their foot troops. I’d be willing to bet this wasn’t the first sign of corruption and arrogance on the part of those public servants.

>But if only the Northeast, the Northwest, the South, and the Midwest are loons, what else is left?

Hmmm. Must be the Southwest, which apparently is becoming a northern state of Mexico. Even a certifiable idiot can get something right on occasion.

I expect to see a lot more birkenstocks at gun shows after this cassandra-piece goes viral. Oh yeah.

>You don’t use hollow point for target practice.

You do if you are the government and somebody else is paying for it through either direct taxation or monetary expansion (inflation ensues as a hidden tax). Central planners like to standardize on items and practice with the service round does give realistic malfunction rates for the deployed rounds during practice.

If we don’t see a supply spike in once fired WW .40S&W brass it means they are either stockpiling it or not extracting salvage value by recycling the brass at its highest value (intact).

Re: “Never mind the guy in AZ was an Obama/Health Care supporter.”

Agreed on all points except this one. That isn’t true. He’s a libertarian anti-statist as he clearly articulates in this video.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=15098903&ch=4226713&src=news

Libertarian firebrand Ernie Hancock helped to organize (or stage as the lapdog media puts it) the appearance of a dozen open carry protestors. Perhaps they were partly inspired by the media frenzy previously at the sight of a holstered gun in New Hampshire. They notified Phoenix PD who assigned a liaison officer to escort/overwatch. That’s one reason why the Obamadroids left him alone. He wasn’t within the Secret Service cordon either, as they would have invoked federal disarmament standards in that case. Obama was never seen near the protest.

Contrary to his comments about open carry in AZ, if Chris went out alone with slung rifle on the sidewalk in Phoenix, the PD likely wouldn’t have been nearly so respectful of lawful open carry. The liberal bedwetters here make charges of disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct an easy form of control and predation on any individual practicing their open carry rights.

Arizona appears to be teetering on becoming a leftist state, as demonstrated by our current Uber Stazi Homlund Zekurity czar and former Klinton appointee Janet Napolitburo who was previously easily elected governor to run the state budget and political climate into the red.

As to the protest, many more were packing concealed, but by carrying openly this was as much an exercise of the first amendment right to assembly and free speech as it was a snub at the gun grabbers. Sadly, many pro-2nd supporters are afraid of how this looks and political backlash.

The purpose wasn’t to sway or intimidate liberals: those kinder submitizens are afraid of toy guns, pictures of guns, and their own straw-men fantasies of knuckle dragging slack-jawed ‘conservatives’. If they only realized what harmless whimps the libertarians generally are.

For a conservative or libertarian trying to look ‘reasonable’ to gun phobes is like a hamburger trying to look like a salad to a vegan. There’s a reason why the Marxist media tried to hide the image of a well dressed peaceable black man armed in public with a sport utility rifle. That image is damaging to their class warfare race baiting tactics. They don’t want the brothers in the hood to see an armed black man not get hassled by the police. They don’t want the feminized public to see that the presence of guns don’t lead to carnage. So they portray conflict where actually there was none. Controversy, yes; conflict, no.

In general you are only likely to get this kind of civility where people can freely carry arms peaceably (this doesn’t include non-peaceable places that libtards use as straw-men such as Somalia or even our crime ridden inner cities). As a matter of tactics for self defense, open carry is generally a bad idea. But as uniformed cops demonstrate daily, the visible presence of the ability to apply countervailing force is a deterrence to mischief and violence. Contrary to The NY Marxist Times, more of us need to Pack Iron (and polymer) Before The Cameras.

Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out.

As far as the ACLU, if they treated ‘shall not be infringed’ literally they’d be regarded more favorably. As it is their concern about the wide latitude of the definition of border is no different than conservatives concerns over incremental gun control. What specifically in their analysis did you find to be false?

The ‘border region’ definition of border may be lawful, it doesn’t comport with the spirit of the 4th amendment against warrant-less searches or the historical concern over general warrants (and surely the implied search powers you reference are the embodiment of a general warrant). I would also question whether these precedence respect the right of the people to be secure in their persons and property when such searches under flimsy pretext can lead to asset forfeiture without any criminal charges.

The little bit in the 4th amendment about the people being secure in their persons and property has pretty much been thrown out with such constructions as ‘reduced expectations of privacy’ when out and about.

Perhaps a better comparison than to E. Germany would be the current UK practice of cordon and search for weapons (defined as anything beyond a butter spreader) among pedestrians. If instead of drugs or visa violations the Border Patrol were looking for ‘large capacity feeding devices’ or ‘assault weapons’ out and about rather than at the actual border, the taste in your mouth might be a little less palatable.

I suspect the quality of these concerns will become apparent when the quantity and scope become more widespread with technology such as millimeter wave imaging. Right now there is precedence against such technologies without warrants, except at the border.

I once had a liberal tell me the Bill of Rights was complicated too. When conservatives get in line, the bigger concern becomes, what exactly are we trying to conserve anymore?

According to this analysis (http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2008/10/aclu-23-of-us-population-lives-in-constitution-free-zone.ars) about 2/3rds of the US population now live in ridiculously defined ‘border’ areas where the 4th amendment has become a dead letter. I wonder how folks would feel if the 2nd amendment had this ‘border’ exception and the border was so liberally defined.

Anyone who has driven through these checkpoints in Kali and the southwest can see that they are a joke as far as effective border enforcement goes. They never report on their false positive (harassment with no violation found) rate, but regardless these internal checkpoints are a tacit admission that the actual border itself is poorly controlled.

From these observations a reasonable person might conclude that this sort of security theatre is little more than a PR operation, window dressing for the submitizens. Or worse, a psy-op to condition the multitudes who are exposed to this that violating the 4th amendment under precedent is a normal and expected government function.

We used to ridicule the East German’s border guard mentality, now we make excuses for it. Was the pastor a confrontational pinhead before or after the incident? By his own account, perhaps. Pathetic even. About as pathetic as a canary in a coal mine. Not nearly as pathetic as the just-following-orders mentality our public servants and their fig bearers display.

Friend, I was articulating the values of the people you claim to be trying to influence, not my own. And I stated out front that being counted as part of an organized pro-2nd amendment lobbying effort isn’t the only way to go. I wish more people had the energy to put their own personal stake into the battle.

LibTeeth is short for Liberty Teeth. Do I have to explain that or would it matter?

I never said the form letter was the only way to go. Read my post again. If you want to disagree with my characterization of entrenched political professionals, then we have something to discuss as to the most effective way to preserve the Republic.

Your characterization of liberalism (socialism) is naive; it is based on coercive force. Everything else (going along to get along) is a smoke screen, a con. Which is why the commies push to disarm the people even when it costs them votes.

Sorry to trouble you with discourse. That last line was pretty funny though.

E-mail replies are different from postal form letters as they can be automatically read and filtered, or at least statistically analyzed. I was referring to snail mail form letters. So the Bradybots may be evil, but they aren’t stupid. Dollar for dollar and ‘member’ for ‘member’ they are more effective than the NRA, but then they get millions of dollars in free advertising from the mainstream media.

I did listen to you. I’ve also listened to staffers in our state legislature when they’ve been buried by organized pro-2nd amendment lobbying efforts. The weight of the postcards sent a message that they were being watched and held accountable. Phone calls are even better.

Your advice is good for the more dedicated, and I acknowledged that. Do you have any constructive criticism of my advice?

Re: “Never copy those forms for idiots. Take an idea or two and compose your own letter.”

While I would never discourage anyone from putting more distinctive or individual effort into their political activism, discouraging the use of the forms plays into politicians’ hands and is an example of the perfect being the enemy of the good.

Many people will start with good intentions, but never get around to a personal effort because the activation energy hump is increased considerably over the forms.

So the perfect attitude actually reduces the population count by the forms that never get mailed in (seen as potential lost votes) a congress critter sees because many will put the creation of their protest masterpiece on the back burner and it will never get sent or sent in a timely way.

Staffers only see numbers, they don’t take the time to read logic or content when they process junk mail, and rest assured your personal letter is work and therefore just as much junk mail as any form letter to a volunteer or staffer. Worse, since the content of an individual letter is harder to parse for positional content, it may not be counted correctly at all. I’ve had auto form letter responses from the mandarins that indicate they thought I was a gun prohibitionist. Either they didn’t read the letter, or thought it would be fun to torque a die hard, or the data entry automaton made a mistake.

Even if content is considered, what does a form letter communicate versus a personal letter? A form letter shows you are part of an organized initiative, maybe someone who donates money and time, and who doesn’t waste time being inefficient. A personal letter though more individual, may actually convey isolation, single issue focus (to a staffer this says crank), and handwritten says technologically backward.

So by all means, write a personal letter, but please do it after dropping the ready made form letter in the mail first. For the cost of an extra stamp, you double your representation and convey an organized unified voice that the politicos know will be following and communicating their compliance or treachery.

Put yourself in the pols or staffers shoes. Wouldn’t you want the myth of the ‘useless’ form letter propagated? “Those forms are ignored” says the perfect functionary from the czargressman’s local propaganda service office. Yeah, right, I believe that. Even if it doesn’t discourage you, that little gem of a deflection does keep less dedicated voices from speaking (form-lettering) out, and seduces the disciplined into spending more time and energy that might be spent pounding them on other issues.

The lib-socialist groups never discourage their ranks from showing collectivist organization because they aren’t proud to be individuals as much as part of a greater cause. While we may disdain their underlying philosophy, the staffers and bureaucrats are collectivists themselves and respect that behavior more than evidence (to them) of perhaps an even greater number of disparate lone voices. This applies as much to conservative pols as liberals. If they respected individuals, they would go find jobs in the voluntary market sector. Anyone who can stand working in the stilted environment of government has already displayed a hive mindset. If you don’t look like part of a big hive, your voice, regardless of position, will be discounted.

“Those inside the law industry embrace lying, intimidation, duplicity, and prevarication as requirements of their profession. Those of us who do not live by such low standards rightly recoil from such practices”

Bingo. We have a winner!

Exhibit A: Photo-enforcement in Arizona. Public LEO mouthpieces parrot the ‘it’s for safety’ mantra but when one peruses the AZ LEO forums the overwhelming cop chatter holds that the GD cameras are for revenue collection only, that traffic stops by commissioned officers can check for real criminal activity, and that the cameras provide no public safety value in terms of accident response, or response to other on highway crimes of a non-speeding nature.

Oh, but there’s more. The real gripes get down to ‘professional courtesy’ slipping away. An LEO speeding home in his private vehicle is just as subject to a bogus due-process-ignoring ‘notice of violation’ as any other submitizen because the poor public servant can’t flash his badge to a TBL buddy and get a free pass. Then there’s the bureaucratic union concern about automation ‘taking’ away cops’ jobs.

I’m pro-peace officer, but with the recent use of Tazers not as self defense tools but as remote control pain compliance torture devices (with potentially lethal outcomes), it’s petty obvious that our public servants hold those who delegate their authority in contempt and disdain. A like response is indicated and justified for folks who use cute euphemisms such as ‘ride the lightening’ when describing torturing adolescents and little old ladies with attitudes.

Sorry professional law enforcement, but as long as you don’t police your own of these miscreants, and actively defend this BS behind Nuremburgesque ‘just following policy’ excuses your profession is worthy of contempt and disdain.

Let’s not forget that officers can lie to their public as an ‘investigative tool’, but woe unto a submitizen who mis-states something to a badge bandit.

Rabies? Hell, might as well shoot any salivary-gland-packing and dentiferous homo-sapien within bite distance who might have HIV. And there are toddlers who have been born with HIV. “If it saves just one officer’s life...” So there’s another good reason not to smile at the man.

Many police departments won’t let officers use slugs in their 12 gauge ‘riot guns’. The concern is penetration into dwellings which somehow isn’t a concern for ‘assault rifles’. Anyone trained with a rifle sighted, unrifled 12 gauge can make head shots at 50 -75 yards with slugs in a typical 18”-20” Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. With a rifled choke tube, head shots are possible out to 100 yards from prone or rest.

About 16 hours of training and 300-500 rounds is all it takes to get proficient in the tactical use of a 12 gauge. Common trap and skeet shooting is a harder skill to hone.

On top of that even a center of mass hit to soft body armor with a slug won’t be lethal but will sure put someone from an offensive to defensive mindset seeking cover. Slugs are safe enough for Northeast deer hunters, yet the police routinely ignore that option over more expensive and far more reaching patrol rifles. Yet even most SWAT ‘sniper’ engagements occur under 100 yards.

Patrol officers don’t need rifles as much as they need training and proper ammo for the tools they already have. In N. Hollywood SWAT showed up with useless tacticool 9mm subguns. A bolt action .223 or .308 also would have served to put down those two perps. A .308 Scout rifle with a low power scope is just about ideal but doesn’t have the glamor that paramilitary iron mongery does.

A semi-auto actually has more utility for a lone civilian than it does for law enforcement who have communications, body armor, and ground and aerial back up on call.

The current trend to paramilitary armament for civilian law enforcement is turning the police into the standing army the founders disdained. The mindset of our ‘public servants’ has largely metastasized into an elite praetorian guard, rather than the traditional role of peace officer. Fostering that attitude is the carrying of badass military copycat Uberkool gunz which is all icing and no wedding cake.

Who cares what it costs? If it helps put down even one taxpayer rebellion or un-permitted non-secular church in the future United Socialist States it will be worth it. (sarcasm).