Free Republic

They say "If you can remember the '60s, you weren't there."

I assume that explains a lot about the foggy patches in my mental archives.

I dunno how much help this might be, but I recall having been involved some years ago on another forum (apparently now defunct) in a web discussion revolving around this issue. The allegation itself, that during the 1980's the US provided biologic agents to Iraq, as I recall stemmed from a 2003 Newsweek article, which was quoted in its entirety during some Senate hearing, by, I believe, West Virginia Democrat, former Klansman, and enthusiastic Bush-Basher Robert "Sheets" Byrd ... though at this remove, I could be wrong about who said what where when.

Anyhow, on seeing your post, I remembered that I had copied and saved a portion of that web discussion for possible later use - digging through my hard drives (and, damn ... I really gotta get better organization going there ;-P ), I came up with the quote I've pasted below. The upshot of the discussion was that the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention, evidently through a UN/World Health Organization program, provided to Iraqi medical research facilities a small quantity of biologics (mostly inert) and related analytic and diagnostic materials chiefly of use to the purpose of insect-borne and animal-borne disease control.

Though unfortunately I can't provide a link to that discussion, a circumstance rendering the following of dubious provenance, I offer an excerpt (of which I was not the author) from the saved portion of that discussion for your consideration and possible use and/or followup:

"Department of Health & Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA, June 21, 1995. Hon. Donald W. Riegle, Jr., U.S. Senate, Washington, DC.

Dear Senator Riegle: In 1993, at your request, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) forwarded to your office a listing of all biological materials, including viruses, retroviruses, bacteria, and fungi, which CDC provided to the government of Iraq from October 1, 1984, through October 13, 1993. Recently, in the course of reviewing our shipping records for a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request from a private citizen, we identified an additional shipment, on May 21, 1985, that was not included on the list that was provided to your office. Following this discovery, we conducted a thorough review of all of our shipping records and are confident that we have now included a listing of all shipments. A corrected list is enclosed (Note: the new information is italicized) ...

AMERICAN TYPE CULTURE COLLECTION, CUSTOMER ACTIVITY DETAIL REPORT, FROM: 01/01/85 TO: 12/31/93; FOR: ALL CUSTOMERS, FOR COUNTRY: IRAQ

{Exhaustive list list and detailed tables snipped; total cash value approximately US $3000.00}

... Most of the materials were non-infectious diagnostic reagents for detecting evidence of infections to mosquito-borne viruses. Only two of the materials are on the Commodity Control List, i.e., Yersinin Pestis (the agent of plague) and dengue virus (the strain of plague bacillus was non-virulent, and CDC is currently petitioning the Department of Commerce to remove this particular variant from the list of controlled materials).

We regret that our earlier list was incomplete and appreciate your understanding.

Sincerely,

David Satcher, Director."

As I said, I'm sorry I can't provide a link (the forum on which the above appeared being no longer available), and I hasten to add anyone has every reason to be skeptical of unsourced documents, particularly when same are presented with redactions and/or editing, as was the above, but maybe with that much to go on you could dig up something useful in such regard via a websearch.

Gresham's Law

From another thread, a moderately lengthy but pretty detailed, objective historical perspective illustrating the origins of the issues at play.

Heres a little history for those inclined to an interest in such.

By general scholarly consensus, there were roughly 16 to 18 Million Jews in the world at the eve of WWII, well more than half of whom, 10 to 12 Million by most estimates, lived in what today is Europe and the former Soviet Union. Immediately following that war, the Eastern European/former Soviet Union Jewish population had declined to fewer than 2 Million; 6 Million had died in The Holocaust, the remainder were scattered across the globe. There are today in the world some 14 Million Jews, give or take a few hundred thousand, with around 5.5 Million living in Israel (which has a total population of approximately 7 Million), and roughly the same number living in The US, which has the world's largest Jewish population outside of Israel, though that is a tiny fraction (less than 1/50th) of the overall US population of nearly 300 Million.

Founded at the very end of the 13th Century in what then was known as Anatolia (more or less today's Turkey), the Ottoman Empire by the end of the 15th Century ruled a vast area extending from the Caucasus and the Black Sea to the Mediterranean and the shores of The Persian Gulf, encompassing all of today's Near East, most of the Middle East, North Africa's entire Mediterranean coast, including Egypt, the Baltics and the entire Adriatic coast, the land around and the islands within the Aegean Sea, all of what today are considered The Arab Lands, much of South Eastern Europe (in the 15th Century, Vienna very nearly fell to the Ottomans), and, of course, what today is Turkey, along with bits of today's Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

The empire began to enter a gradual decline around the middle of the 18th Century, beset by mounting internal chaos and dissention, eventually coming to be referred to disparagingly as "The sick man of Europe". Largely left behind by the Industrial Revolution, lacking contemporarily modern infrastructure such as electrical and communications grids, general public education system, up-to-date manufacturing capabilities, railroads and paved road networks, plagued with corruption, bitter political divisions, brigandry and widespread general lawlessness, what remained of the Ottoman Empire was the backwater of Western Civilization. However, unwell as it may have been compared to earlier vigor and glory, as the 20th Century dawned its size, influence, and reputation, even if not its power, remained considerable. Final collapse came with WWI; already torn by widespread internal revolt and independence issues, amounting almost to open civil war, the Ottoman Empire sided with Germany, and thus ensured its own doom. Its once-substantial (and essentially German-led) military was wiped out in just about all but name over a series of disastrous campaigns, most notably Allenby's 1917-18 "Palestine Campaign", which left that region firmly in British hands. Among the results of realignments following that war, the strife-crippled former empire was thoroughly dismembered, carved up, partioned away; after more than 6 centuries of glory, the Ottoman Empire was gone for good, consigned to history's rubbish tip.

In 1916, before WWI even had ended, the Sykes-Picot Agreement mandated to France and Britain the Southern portion of the hapless empire, what today are Lebanon and Syria were assigned to French oversight, today's Jordan and Israel (including the "West Bank") going to the British. The Balfour Declaration of 1917 iterated the intention to form a Jewish Homeland in the area under British mandate. Predating both of these, there existed a 1915 British assurance to the Sherif of Mecca that in return for Arab support against Germany and her allies (which of course included the Ottoman Empire) in the then-ongoing war, independence would be granted to the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire - provided, of course, that Britain did not lose the war, a happenstance the British were able to convince the Sherif was of vanishingly remote possibility. Lawrence of Arabia gets all wrapped up in this, but nevermind for now.

Overall, the area assigned to British oversight traditionally - from long before the time of the Crusades - had been referred to as "The Palestine". It was never a nation in any sense, just a conceptualized region, consisting largely of insect-infested, disease-ridden swamp and arid, barren desert. At that time (the beginning of the 1920s) the region was, and long, long had been, sparsely populated (fewer than half a Million inhabitants across an area roughly the size of New Jersey or today's Hungary), traversed by nomads, scattered about here and there with remote settlements of no more than a few dwellings and outbuildings - little more than large farms, really, tiny rural villages, and a few towns, with only a very few really worthy of being designated a "City". Civil Infrastructure outside the few larger towns and the even fewer cities was minimal, and most of what there was could best be described as primitive; few paved roads, virtually no municipal services, little if any law and order, no electric power or telephone grids - barely a telegraph grid, for that matter.

The late 19th Century saw the beginning of large-scale Jewish migration into the region, already, and for centuries before, home to a considerable Jewish population - perhaps a fifth of the area's total population - many with roots extending back to and in some cases well predating The Crusades, a few into pre-Roman Biblical times. The influx of European Jewish settlers brought with it the first real civil development the region had seen in well over a millennium, a boom, in fact.

These new settlers, primarily European and Russian Jews, began what only may be characterized as a Renaissance for the region, draining swamps, converting desert to farmland, raising settlements to villages, villages to towns, and towns nearly to cities. This growth encouraged the migration into the area of Arabs and others from the Greater Near and Middle East, drawn by employment opportunity and far superior living conditions than these native peoples had known for centuries beyond memory. Within a few decades, by the 1920s, the region's population essentially had exploded, Jew, Arab, Christian, Druze, and others alike, Jews comprising a modest majority throughout the region, a significant majority in the larger population centers. Most commerce and administration was conducted by Jews, Jews owned by far the greatest portion of arable land (having themselves largely reclaimed it from swamp and desert), and nearly all of what little industry there was (mostly producing agricultural and consumer goods and tools for domestic consumption) was of Jewish origin and ownership, a natural consequence of said enterprises largely having been established by Jews. This is not to say there was no native, non-Jewish agriculture, commerce or industry - most certainly there was and it formed a vital component of the local economy, though nowhere near the Jewish component.

In the early 1920s, the British in effect subdivided their administrational mandate, "The Palestine", creating two districts. One district, a narrow strip lying to the West of the Jordan River, which the British designated "Palestine", already preponderantly Jewish by population, was to not only permit but to encourage Jewish settlement. Lying to the East of the Jordan, the other, nearly four times times larger portion, the British designated "Trans-Jordan", restricting that district from further Jewish settlement (and forcing the only somewhat compensated displacement of a fair number of Jews at the time living and owning property and businesses in the district, incidentally), intending it to become the "Arab-Palestinian Homeland", envisioned to become eventually a semi-autonomous member of what then was The British Commonwealth, while the smaller Eastern district was to become the "Jewish Palestinian Homeland", likewise intended and anticipated eventually to take its place as a partner in The British commonwealth.

Trans-Jordan, renamed "Jordan" shortly after WWII, was more or less given to the administrational control of a local strongman, Abdullah bin al-Hussein (or Husayn), whose family roots were anchored not in "The Palestine", but in the Arabian Peninsula and were of the sort of intertwined sectarian and secular nobility common in Arab culture. Abdullah, technically an "Emir", or governor, effectively ruled as a king until 1949, at which point, with both Britain's and his parliament's approval, he formally became Abdullah I, the Hashemite King of Jordan, and Jordan became a fully autonomous nation. On his death by assassination a couple years later, the crown passed to his son (by a British mother, one Toni Gardiner - quite a story there, but, again, never mind), Talal bin Abdullah, on who's abdication for reason of health (madness) within a couple years of his accession, Talal's then-yet-minor son, Hussein bin Talal, acceeded to the crown, ruling untill his death of natural cause in 1999, whereupon his son, Abullah II, current Hashemite King, assumed the crown. Anyhow, enough of Jordan for this discussion.

In the smaller, Eastern portion of the re-partitioned British mandate, now officially "Palestine" by British designation at the time of its forming, the British themselves, through Crown-Appointed Governors and functionaries, maintained direct administration. In contrast to the displacement of Jews from Trans-Jordan, and proscription against further Jewish settlement therein, Arabs and others were not institutionally displaced nor restricted from entering and settling in "Palestine". Largely due to the far more robust economy of "Palestine", the partition attracted a steadily increasing stream of Arab settlers, largely from Trans-Jordan, but significantly from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and the Arabian Peninsula as well.

As the stream of non-Jewish, predominantly Arab, overwhelmingly preponderantly Islamic immigrants into "Palestine" grew, so too grew tensions; the non-Jews perceiving themselves disadvantaged, disenfranchised, and otherwise oppressed by the majority Jewish population, who were by law confined to "Palestine", having option only to remain where they were or to quit the region altogether, the latter, given circumstances elsewhere in the world, particularly Europe, not a practicably viable option.

Throughout the 1920's in "Palestine" (which was roughly 20% the size of what had been "The Palestine", remember), incidents of violence, primarily but not absolutely exclusively Arab-initiated and directed against Jews and to a lesser extent against British administrational infrastructure, began to increase, with Arab/Islamic leaders both in "Palestine" and elsewhere pressing ever more stridently for the ouster of the Jews from what, by British intent and decree and with international assent was the smaller portion of the repartitioned British Mandate, the portion to which to which the Jews were restricted, and into which was flowing a small but not inconsiderable stream of European Jews , an immigrant stream a good deal less robust than that of Arabs and others entering "Palestine" from elsewhere in the region. 1920, '21, '23, and '26 saw major disturbances, Arabs attacking Jews and Jewish and British infrastructure. Throughout the decade, lesser outbreaks of violence and vandalism were frequent, at times almost weekly, occurrences, mostly Arab-on-Jew, though there were a few Arab-on-British Mandate Infrastructure and Jew-on-Arab and Jew-on-British Mandate Infrastructure incidents.

In the late summer of 1929, there occurred a disturbance in Jerusalem in which 3 Jews and 3 or 4 Arabs were killed. A mob of Arabs, largely youths and young men, attacked an intentionally provocative militant assembly of Jews asserting Jewish right to worship at the Wailing Wall, (a fragment of the temple destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE), to the Jews the holiest site in Jerusalem. The Wall, located in the Arab sector of the city and the site of the Mosque of The Dome of The Rock, was also Islam's holiest site in the city and long had been a friction point. Rumors flew in the Arab community throughout "Palestine" following the riot, and the next day the town of Hebron, about 20 miles south of Jerusalem (in what now is known as "The West Bank"), became the scene of what contemporary Jewish history remembers as "The Hebron Massacre". One of the oldest most revered sites in all of Judaism, home to a Jewish community for more than 3 millenia, one of the oldest continually inhabited sites on Earth, and location of perhaps the oldest Jewish cemetery in the world, which at the time was - and still is - in use, Hebron then had, and had for generations beyond numbering had, a thriving, vibrant Jewish community, then (late 1920s) numbering a few thousand.

Under the British administration, Hebron long had been considered a quiet, peaceful town, and the police department - the town's sole "law-and-order" asset - existed just
about in name only; it consisted of one full-time paid officer and a couple of more-or-less quasi-deputized part-time volunteers. That itself was not particularly notable; at the time, the entire Palestine Mandate security forces consisted of at most a few hundred British troops and a smattering of indigenous personnel, with only small arms and virtually no other military equipment, capability, or mission; little more than equivalent to impotent observers - hall monitors.

Over a 36-hour period, rampaging mobs of Arabs, again mostly youths and young men, wreaked havoc on the Jewish community of previously tranquil Hebron, ransacking homes and businesses, pillaging Jewish temples and schools. The pitifully inadequate "police department" of course was powerless to intervene, and the tiny police station itself became a barricaded, besieged refuge for terrified Jews. A fair number of Arabs did shelter many Jews in their homes, and the mobs of rioters certainly were nothing like a majority, nor even a numerically significant portion, of the community's Arab population. None the less, when the rampage ended something like 70 Jews were dead (and, apparently, maybe a dozen or so Arabs, some evidently killed when a burning building housing a Jewish-owned shop they were looting collapsed on them), the Jewish business and residential neighborhoods were in ruins, and in the end the Jews were forced to leave Hebron, relocated to Jerusalem by the British "in the interest of keeping the peace".

"The peace" did not keep well. While for several years there was no repeat of anything like what happened at Hebron, violence continued to be directed by the Arabs of "Palestine" against the Jews of "Palestine"; vandalism, beatings, bombings and burnings of homes, businesses, schools and temples, and of course murders, ranging from lynchings to assassinations by mass gunfire were common. It wasn't a pretty time, and it was getting unprettier as time went on. To be fair, there was nearly as much, if not more, Arab-on-Arab violence and general lawlessness as there was violence directed by Arabs against the Jews, and a few incidents involved Jew-on-Arab and Jew-on-Jew violence, though the latter two cases have to be considered almost in the "man bites dog" category - so atypical of common circumstance as to be particularly remarkable merely for having happened at all.

The next major eruption of anti-Jew violence in Palestine came in 1936. Several rival Arab tribal strongmen (or, as some might term them, "prominent Arab leaders") had managed by then to set aside their longstanding internecine differences, forming a loose, ad hoc religio-political construct which styled itself "The Arab High Command", opposed both to Jews and to British administration. Early in the year, this organization began staging protests and demonstrations, small at first, but their attendance and impact grew, with several violent incidents directed against Jews or Jewish properties. In April of 1936, The Arab High Command called for a general Arab strike and a boycott of Jewish business throughout "Palestine".

A Jerusalem demonstration related to the Arab strike eventuated into a riot, during which a bus carrying Jews was attacked and destroyed with a couple Jews killed and several more injured. Things went from bad to worse, and within days "Palestine" was engulfed in violence, nothing short of a rebellion, the uprising continuing into the early Winter of that year. British armed intervention stepped up, rising eventually to something quite like (but not so declared) martial law, armored units and infantry were brought in and deployed throughout the partition, conducting constant patrols and carrying out occasional raids and arrests. By mid to late November, while tensions still were high, the situation at least was notably calmer ... well, calm is probably not the right concept, but violence, though not entirely eliminated, had been greatly curtailed. Far from extinguished, the rebellion smoldered for a few months.

Arising essentially consequent to and coincident with this upheaval were a number of Arab political parties, some of which aligned themselves into a coalition calling itself "The Arab High Committee". A list of demands was drawn up and published by "The Arab Committee", calling for an end of Jewish immigration into "Palestine", forbidding Jews to acquire property, and the establishment of an autonomous Palestinian Arab government with the consequent end of British authority.

On the other side, the Jews had not been idle; there was the Zionist Congress, the Jewish Fund, and of course Haganah, formed some 25 years earlier as a loose, barely organized volunteer protection force for the kibbutzim, essentially outlying, remote farming settlements, had grown to become quite a large, well organized militia, having if not overt support at least tacit approval from the British administration. As well, what amounted to a shadow government had come into existence alongside that of the British Mandate Administration, Jews to a very large extent, with British acquiescence if not exactly enthusiasm, through The Jewish Agency managing their own civil affairs, to a significant extent in the cities and larger towns and all but absolutely exclusively in the more remote towns, villages, and settlements. Along with this, of course, were Jewish unions and political parties, not all of which got along very well if at all with one another. Interestingly, the existence and authority of the Jewish Agency was a major sore spot for the Arabs, but though the British offered to fund and to assist in the establishment of a similar Arab Agency, the Arab leadership refused even to consider the notion.



As a sidebar:

By the latter half of the 1930s, Britain's attention was being drawn ever more to the impending war with Germany. The "Palestine Problem" was becoming an increasingly inconvenient distraction. The Arabs, and their non-Arab coreligionist neighbors, wanted nothing to do with the Jews or a Jewish Homeland, and the Arabs and their coreligionist neighbors were in control of petroleum resources critically vital to Britain in the looming war. Arab goodwill toward Britain and the British cause began to assume an ever growing role in British considerations pertaining to the region and its situation.

Unsurprisingly, Germany was well aware of this, and perceived in the situation opportunity ripe for exploitation. A signal consideration, and one Germany quickly and enthusiastically pursued, was the Islamic antipathy toward Jews and the concomitant Islamic opposition to a Jewish Homeland in "Palestine". Though Germany was unable, due to existing entanglements (Spain's Civil war, Germany's own concerted, singleminded preparation for war with "The West"), and unwilling (due to intense and tricky diplomatic manoeuvrings) to openly support the conveniently (to the German POV) increasingly restive, militant Arab separatists, Germany none the less managed to funnel inspiration, advice, encouragement, and a fair amount of money and materiel (mostly small arms and associated ammunition, along with a small quantity of other munitions, chiefly grenades and bulk explosives) to the Arabs of "Palestine" and to some extent their coreligionist neighbors elsewhere in the region.

Harking back to the assurances given the Sherif of Mecca 30 years earlier, the Arabs and the other Islamists of the former Ottoman Empire were more than eager for the independence they felt was their due, and were quite at the end of their patience with the British and the French. Any enemy of the British and French was a friend of theirs. Winning friends and influencing people among these disaffected Islamists was no arduous task for Germany, who covertly conveyed to Arab and other Islamic leaders assurances of independence in return for their support against the Britain and France those folks already weren't very happy with anyway. Having captured Germany's attention and support, Arab Nationalism now had an external, and powerful, champion, even if that champion preferred for the moment to remain behind the scene, subtle and discrete. Enough of that for now, though ... lets get back to "Palestine".



We come now to 1937. Commissioned by The Crown in response to the upheavals of '36, the Peele Report was finished and published - to mixed reviews from the directly involved parties, the Jews an Arabs of "Palestine". In brief, the report's conclusion was that the Jews and the Arabs would never get along in a bi-cultural state, and its recommendation was for yet another partition, a smaller, more or less coastal, strip of "Palestine" for the Jews, the roughly 5 times larger remainder, including a bit over half the land at that time given to agriculture, for the Arabs. The Jews, not thrilled, none the less largely saw in the recommendation an opportunity to end the discord and violence, allowing them to at least begin to set up for themselves what they hoped would become a viable, peaceful state of their own.

The Arabs, on the other hand, wanted it all, and decided, in the face of what they perceived to be British reluctance and effective inability (the Arabs too knew war between Britain and Germany was looming, remember) to stop them, decided to take it.

Thus began The Arab Revolt, beside which the upheavals of '36 pale in comparison. Continuing into the opening months of WWII, it finally was put down through intensive British action against the insurgents. A significant development of the suppression effort was that the British not only officially recognized Haganah, the Jewish militia, but armed and supported it, including providing high ranking British officers (such as Orde Wingate, who went on to achieve the rank of Major General, in the Pacific Theater forming and leading the Chindits who liberated Burma, where in '44 Wingate died in a plane crash, eventually winding up buried in America's Arlington National Cemetery, a most singular resting place for one not of The American Military) - as advisors and liason in return for Haganah's support in the suppression of the revolt. Though never concrete, assurances were strongly implied if not expressly guaranteed that following the war Britain would at last see to the establishment of an independent, autonomous Jewish state. This was, however, contrary to the 1939 Mac Donald White Paper, wherein the British formally abandoned the idea of an independent Jewish state in favor of an independent state under joint Jewish-Arab government. Under-the-table British assurances coupled with the quite understandable Jewish antipathy toward Nazi Germany and the equally understandable Arab sympathy with Nazi Germany overcame Jewish anger over the policy statement set forth by the Mac Donald Whitepaper.

As WWII progressed, the British preoccupied elsewhere, Haganah, with full British support, took an increasingly independent role in the control of the "Palestine" sub-partition of the original British Palestine Mandate. Key among Haganah's activities of the time was the defense of British Mandate administration and infrastructure and general border security, becoming in effect an auxilliary of the British Army and a component of the overall British war effort in the Middle East. That not withstanding, Haganah also was heavily involved with the illegal (by British Mandate decree) smuggling of Jewish refugees into "Palestine" - an emotionally partisan but not altogether inaccurate portrayal of which is at the heart of the movie made from Leon Uris' (far more expansive than its movie) novel Exodus. There also were splinter groups which detached themselves from Haganah, perhaps most notably Irgun, or the "Stern Gang" (from its leader's name), which actively opposed British authority, quite violently. By the end of WWII, Haganah was a tightly organized, highly disciplined, well-trained-and-equipped (even possessing a small air arm), combat-experienced military, well-versed and eminently capable in the art and practice of "small war", or insurgency. That evolution proved quite to the inconvenience, irritation, and embarrassment of Britain over the next couple of years, as the "Palestinian" Jewish sentiment for an independent Jewish state became an uprising of its own, against the British Mandate Authority. The upshot of that development was the 1948 UN mandate establishing the State of Israel, and the 1948 Arab Israeli War which followed immediately thereupon, a war which never has really ended, flaring into open combat again in '56, '67, '73, '82, the '87-'90 Intifada, the 2000-'05 al-Aqsa Intifada, and current unpleasantness.

That's history for you.

My sincerest sympathies - I know very much how you feel. Sam, my Best Buddy of nearly 15 years, a huge (in his prime, 180lb +) Rott/Golden mix, likewise is approaching the end. In early December, we took a chance on surgery. The vet was upfront about the deal, raising no unrealistic expectations; noting that Sam was extraordinarly fit for a dog his age and thus a good candidate for surgery, either he would gain a few months of quality life or he would not survive the surgery. Sam is at my feet as I type this; we've just returned from a walk in the woods. He's having one more good day, and I'm very thankful that so am I.

UpAllNight wrote:
"From your link. This is TOTAL garbage! ...

... The fossil record shows that the different classes of plants emerged all of a sudden in the world, each with its own particular characteristics, and with no period of evolution behind it."

Garbage and nonsense indeed: The Fossil Record extends back some 3.8 Billion years or more, clearly indicating linear, increasingly complex development of lifeforms from pre-biotics to prokaryotes and from thence in logical, time-ordered progression across the eons to the present day.

Worthwhile to note is that objection to/rejection of the science of evolution uniformly devolves to an essentially religionist POV, and is expressed exclusively via populist, non-scientific/academic - largely vanity/self-published - out-of-the-mainstream, minority/contrarian literature, media, and websites.

While there exist within the legitimate scientific/academic community points open questions and assorted of dispute pertaining to certain particulars of the mechanics of evolution, there exists no dispute or question of the fact of evolution.

Quite simply, there is nothing in science which contradicts the Theory of Evolution, and ongoing research and discovery serve only to broaden understanding and to further confirm evolution, at all scales from the cosmologic to the sub-molecular.

Those who perceive there to be a "Problem" with evolution in fact have no science, no evidence whatsoever, in support of their specious, ill-informed, logically absurd objections, but rather they have a problem stemming from whatever religio-spiritual belief set they happen personally to embrace.

Over 60 - and that's all I'm gonna say ;-P

Having read The God Theory, and being likewise somewhat experientially familiar with many of Haisch's published papers and articles, I find refreshing, and worth consideration as "Saving Grace" if such may be found, his clear and unambiguous acknowledgment that he offers naught but speculation, speculation which, albeit stemming from an informed perspective, very well might be totally off-base. His credentials are far superior to those of many - if not most - denizens of the kookosphere, and to his credit he himself freely admits there is much we do not know and about which we merely guess.

RegulatorCountry wrote:

"PS: You misspelled 'possessing'" And you misspelled "accreditations."

I know; actually, as written, that isn't even a legitimate word. Also in that post are a few grammar/usage and punctuation errors, planted there for the pedagogic entertainment of the terminally punctilious. Enjoy.

editor-surveyor wrote:

While I attach no particular importance to the genome project, neither do I see one such as yourself, posessing no knowledge whatsoever on the subject, having the authority to declare it junk science. Wishful thinking from an empty evolutionism rider?

With all respect, Sir or Madam as case may be, I submit yours as cited is a Rath^er brash assumption, on its face at the very most charitable an assertion putting into question its author's credibility. I challenge you to demonstrate the basis of knowledge by which you assay to presume anything pertaining to my CV, bona fides, credentials,accredidations, credentials, and/or other qualifications, academic or professional, philosophic or theologic.

I submit that should you fail to provide and validate said basis of knowledge, your assertion stands impeached. What that may say of your credibility and/or authority overall will be self evident.

Thanking you in advance for your expected gracious cooperation in this matter, I await your soonest convenient substantive, topically responsive reply.

PS: You misspelled "possessing"

Junk Science Ping.

Evidently, apart from being confused in regard to whom he/she directs those misfounded straw-man questions, 2bannana has only read and/or of Dawkins, as opposed to having actually read and/or heard Dawkins. Now, I'll hasten to make clear I consider Dawkins a showboating, pompous ass, but while he deserves much criticism, such criticism should be at least accurate and honest.

Indeed it ain't a democracy - and I expect the good Father well may be in for a wake-up call. Its one thing to be outspoken, another to be dissident, and yet altogether something else again for an outspoken, dissident Catholic priest's contrarian opinionating to gain the attention of the media.

The Creationists/ID-iots are an embarrassment - and a clear, present danger - to the Conservative Cause. The primary difference between knowledge and ignorance is that knowledge has limits.

The Fourth Estate has become The Fifth Column.

If the quality is so bad, why is the RIAA suing their customers over it?

Quality has nothing to do with it; the crime is making the copyrighted intellectual property freely available for unlicensed distribution - that very simple point seems impossible for some folks to get a grip on. It isn't the music, it isn't the copying, it isn't the listening, its the illegal distribution.

A couple things worth noting, at least IMO -
1) It is not the copying of or listening to the music that the RIAA (for which entity I hold no special regard) goes after, it is the unlicensed distribution of that music.


2) The RIAA doesn't "break into someone's computer and search the hard drive"; using essentially the same applications used by those engaged in illegal file sharing, they discover files made available for illegal sharing. Effectively, the people getting busted have posted a "Here I am, come and get me" sign; if the files at dispute were not available for public sharing, they would not be detected.

3) mp3 sucks anyway, due to its inherent lossy compression; listening to most "ripped" music is almost akin to listening to it over the telephone. Even at the highest copy resolutions commonly available, the reduced frequency response, separation, and harmonics, along with other artifacts of digitizing, are objectionable to the discerning listener using decent equipment. Music copied from Broadcast FM, well recorded from a clean signal, blows away the sound quality of any consumer music digitizing scheme.

Brilliant wrote: "He's absolutely right. They should be indicted, and so should their sources."

Moreso the sources - you can be angry with your dog for taking your sandwich, but it was you who left it where he could get it.