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Intelligent design gets even dumber
The Washington Post ^ | 03/08/19 | Jerry A. Coyne

Posted on 03/16/2019 11:26:56 AM PDT by Simon Green

The notion of “intelligent design” arose after opponents of evolution repeatedly failed on First Amendment grounds to get Bible-based creationism taught in the public schools. Their solution: Take God out of the mix and replace him with an unspecified “intelligent designer.” They added some irrelevant mathematics and fancy biochemical jargon, and lo: intelligent design, which scientists have dubbed “creationism in a cheap tuxedo.”

But the tuxedo is fraying, for intelligent design has been rejected not just by biologists but also by judges who recognize it as poorly disguised religion. Nevertheless, its advocates persist. Among the most vocal is Michael J. Behe, a biology professor at Lehigh University whose previous books, despite withering criticism from scientists, have sold well in a country where 76 percent of us think God had some role in human evolution.

Behe does not rely on the Bible as a science textbook. Rather, he admits that evolution occurs by natural selection sifting new mutations and that all species are related via common ancestors. Where he parts company with other biologists is in his claim that the important mutations producing new types of organisms are not random accidents but are deliberately installed by a designer with a plan. A pious Catholic, Behe sees the designer as the Christian God but concedes that there could be other mutation-makers. These designed mutations solve what he sees as a problem for natural selection: the origin of some complex biochemical features. Such features appear to defy Darwinian explanation because, claims Behe, they can’t function until all the parts are in place. (Unguided natural selection requires that every step in the evolution of a complex feature must enhance an organism’s fitness.) Ergo, these “irreducibly complex” systems must have been forged by a designer who made simultaneous changes in several genes.

(Excerpt) Read more at google.com ...


TOPICS: Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: barfalert; creationism; evolution; fakenews; id; intelligentdesign; washingtoncompost
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To: Simon Green

So are you or any of the posters here an atheist or an agnostic, and if you, do you support America being pro-God, and what is the basis for your moral views?


101 posted on 03/17/2019 8:04:30 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Windflier

Which is exactly why I say that the “artificial intelligence” they are touting today is indeed artificial, but not intelligence.

True intelligence requires conscious self-awareness, which is a quantum mechanical phenomenon and can never by achieved through software alone. What they call “artificial intelligence” these days is nothing more than highly intricate if-then programming with some statistical analysis thrown in.

Quantum mechanics is the only branch of science that even touches upon consciousness. A conscious observer is required for a quantum mechanical event to occur, ala Schroedinger’s cat.

I believe in a God who is the conscious observer who brings the universe into existence. There is no reason to believe that such a God could not create matter with the mathematical blueprint to self-assemble life one step at a time.

Whoever God is, He is far beyond our comprehension. My idea of who God is is just as valid as yours.


102 posted on 03/17/2019 9:07:02 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Capitalism produces EVERYTHING Socialists/Communists/Democratic-Socialists wish to "redistribute.")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

How does something that is dead magically come to life, with the ability to collect energy from the environment to sustain its metabolism, and then some time later, even more magically reproduce a copy of itself that also has all those abilities?

Absent God, it ain’t gonna happen, no matter how many billions of years and billions of galaxies and billions of stars you want to count.


103 posted on 03/17/2019 11:20:30 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring

So God couldn’t possibly create a universe with matter that does that?

He has to magically pull rabbits out of hats like a carnival magician?


104 posted on 03/17/2019 11:38:29 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Capitalism produces EVERYTHING Socialists/Communists/Democratic-Socialists wish to "redistribute.")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

That response makes no sense at all.


105 posted on 03/17/2019 12:28:48 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Indeed, The Creator’s ability to speak the worlds into existence and then bring forth life by the application of His will is so much more amazing than some “give it enough time” nonpurposeful accidental freak show that cannot be proven based on the observed, only by bullying and a myriad of bad assumptions laced with “should and could and may haves”.

Of course God used the materials He spoke into existence at the creation, and he breathed life from His essence/logos into His creation- that is the miracle of Life, not some cosmic accident of chirals self-destructing in some dead presupposed swamp....

And, furthermore and more importantly, He gave purpose and meaning to life, so we should live as if it means something.


106 posted on 03/17/2019 5:30:18 PM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Whoever God is, He is far beyond our comprehension. My idea of who God is is just as valid as yours.

Are we arguing here? I don't recall challenging your religious beliefs.

I merely opined that a jumble of atoms requires the 'spark of life' to become a living thing. Scientists have been able to string amino acids and enzymes together in chains identical to those of living things for decades now, but they haven't been able to bring them to life.

I'm not arguing over who the grand designer is, or how that spark of life is introduced into inanimate matter. I'm just noting that it is.

107 posted on 03/18/2019 3:11:08 AM PDT by Windflier (Pitchforks and torches ripen on the vine. Left too long, they become black rifles.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

True intelligence requires conscious self-awareness, which is a quantum mechanical phenomenon


Who told you that?


108 posted on 03/18/2019 3:15:45 AM PDT by sparklite2 (Don't mind me. I'm just a contrarian.)
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To: sparklite2

I have been working with artificial neural networks for years. We don’t have “artificial intelligence.” Not even close.

So everything you know you know because you were “told.”

Do you ever intend to have an original thought in your lifetime?


109 posted on 03/18/2019 8:49:46 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Capitalism produces EVERYTHING Socialists/Communists/Democratic-Socialists wish to "redistribute.")
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To: Simon Green

Evolution is religion that pretends to be science. Evolutionists and Global Warmists have weaponized the word “science”. The bible warns about this very thing.


110 posted on 03/18/2019 8:58:11 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (...the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom the world has been crucified to me.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“True intelligence requires conscious self-awareness, which is a quantum mechanical phenomenon”

You asserted the above. Now you’re telling me it’s
just an idea you have. Thanks, I’m trying to see
who I’m dealing with here.


111 posted on 03/18/2019 12:28:15 PM PDT by sparklite2 (Don't mind me. I'm just a contrarian.)
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To: sparklite2

So how much experience do you have programming “artificial intelligence?”

I’m trying to see who I’m dealing with here.


112 posted on 03/18/2019 3:55:40 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Capitalism produces EVERYTHING Socialists/Communists/Democratic-Socialists wish to "redistribute.")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Right after you explain what quantum mechanics has to do with consciousness.


113 posted on 03/18/2019 4:06:50 PM PDT by sparklite2 (Don't mind me. I'm just a contrarian.)
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To: sparklite2

So you don’t have any experience programming artificial intelligence. Good to know.

Name one branch of hard science that even touches consciousness other than quantum mechanics.

Not fake sciences like sociology or psychology.


114 posted on 03/18/2019 4:09:09 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Capitalism produces EVERYTHING Socialists/Communists/Democratic-Socialists wish to "redistribute.")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

No, you made the assertion. You defend it.


115 posted on 03/18/2019 4:09:55 PM PDT by sparklite2 (Don't mind me. I'm just a contrarian.)
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To: sparklite2

I did. Put up or shut up.


116 posted on 03/18/2019 4:13:00 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Capitalism produces EVERYTHING Socialists/Communists/Democratic-Socialists wish to "redistribute.")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Here’s my final comment to you.

Thus the brain is very far removed from the conditions required for any coherent quantum computation.

https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=16534


117 posted on 03/18/2019 4:31:33 PM PDT by sparklite2 (Don't mind me. I'm just a contrarian.)
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To: sparklite2

That’s reads like the same kind of research-grant non-scientific “science” that says globull warming “science” is settled.

And I never said the brain was a quantum device. I said there is a quantum mechanical component to consciousness. You had nothing to contribute, you just wanted to send that link.

The artificial “intelligence” being peddled these days is zombie stimulus-response. That ain’t intelligence.

So how much artificial intelligence programming have you done? Just so I know what I’m dealing with, other than a link-bot.


118 posted on 03/18/2019 4:57:13 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Capitalism produces EVERYTHING Socialists/Communists/Democratic-Socialists wish to "redistribute.")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I just wanted to send that link? Yet waited half a dozen posts to do so? We’re done.


119 posted on 03/18/2019 5:04:59 PM PDT by sparklite2 (Don't mind me. I'm just a contrarian.)
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To: sparklite2

You contributed nothing. You think posting a link to a chat room proves me wrong?

You know nothing, and you proved it.

So, how much artificial intelligence programming have you done?


120 posted on 03/18/2019 5:21:36 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Capitalism produces EVERYTHING Socialists/Communists/Democratic-Socialists wish to "redistribute.")
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