EU foreign ministers rally to save French referendum

Financial Times ^ | 04/17/05 | Daniel Dombey, Peggy Hollinger

[TigerLikesRooster]

EU foreign ministers rally to save French referendum

By Daniel Dombey in Brussels and Peggy Hollinger in Paris
Published: April 17 2005 17:05 | Last updated: April 17 2005 17:05

Europe's foreign ministers have rallied round the embattled French campaign for the European constitution, arguing that a No vote on the May 29 referendum would set back the European Union's drive to play a bigger part on the world stage.

Many officials fear that a French rejection, which could prove terminal for the constitutional treaty, would also halt the EU's enlargement drive - sometimes dubbed "the most successful foreign policy in the world". It could also kill reforms intended to boost the EU's diplomatic clout, such as the creation of an EU foreign minister and a new external action service.

"If we want Europe to play a role in the world it is necessary to be in favour of the constitution," said Benita Ferrero-Waldner, EU external relations commissioner, at a weekend meeting of foreign ministers in Luxembourg.

But a series of opinion polls has put the No vote ahead and President Jacques Chirac is widely deemed to have put in a disappointing performance in a televised debate last week. Support for a No vote has risen in subsequent polls, now standing at 56 per cent.

The EU's enlargement drive could be particularly stricken because the debate in France has focused on fears about the possible effects of the EU's expansion last year to 25 member states and on the prospect of Turkish membership in about a decade's time.

Some EU officials fear that if France rejects the constitution it may not be possible to begin the entry negotiations with Turkey in October this year, as scheduled.

A longer term promise to allow the whole of the Balkans to enter the EU is at the heart of international efforts to stabilise the former Yugoslavia, the site of four wars in the 1990s.

At the foreign ministers' meeting, Dimitrij Rupel, chairman of the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe, said he was "very worried" about the effect on enlargement of a French No vote.

On Monday, Javier Solana, the EU's foreign policy representative, will join the fray with a Paris speech which makes a plea for a Yes vote to safeguard Europe's r ole in the world.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/4b0d8ff0-af56-11d9-bb33-00000e2511c8.html

[TigerLikesRooster]

If French reject EU constitution, Turkey would be screwed. Despite all efforts to placate Europeans to get in EU, it may not get in.

I have never expected that French themselves would torpedo EU. Life does have strange twists.

[TigerLikesRooster]

I solicit your informed opinion.:-)

[Grzegorz 246]

Frenchies should be punished by other EUnuchs.

[SauronOfMordor]

Some EU officials fear that if France rejects the constitution it may not be possible to begin the entry negotiations with Turkey in October this year, as scheduled. A longer term promise to allow the whole of the Balkans to enter the EU is at the heart of international efforts to stabilise the former Yugoslavia

And the admission of millions of Muslims and members of terrorist groups will be good for Europe because?

[TigerLikesRooster]

Re #4

Because they say so.:-)

[Leifur]

Hehe, you should see the grin on my face :)

I absolutely loathe the EU, and would like nothing better to see it get a blow like that, on the Brusselite wictory day, see them crumble before their own ardant supporters until this day. This constutional treaty is the fullfilment of the hope of these people to get absolute power regardless of what the old european democracies want, so it is maybe not surprisingly that france are recognising the threat from it, though the spoiled political elite wants it as nothing else, as it will rid them of accountability to their subjects.

Some of my eurosceptic friends are though hoping for this treaty to pass in France, as they are hoping for a British no, that would eventually lead to Britain escaping the EU and with us and the rest of EFTA to bond better towards cross atlantic relations, maybe by unifying NAFTA and EFTA into some kind of TAFTA (trans-atlantic free trade area) giving european countries another option to the evil EU.

But as I am not only looking after what is good for Iceland, but also the rest of humans (I am so much idealist) I hope the treaty will be rejected and then all "ever closer union" ideas to be abandaned and then the EU can hopefully develop to its only acceptable role as a free trade zone of individual, independant nations. But if it will be rejected, I know they will just put forfard another vote, and another until it is accepted, then there will be no more votes, so my dreams are, like most ideals, unrealistic.

I even, although beeing an christian conservative against free immigration across the continent, have supported Turkey´s membership, as it will just make the EU even more alien to Icelanders and thus even more unattractive. This treaty will have the same effects as that, both to Icelanders, and hopefully also for the Norweegians, the British, and even the Danish. If those of those that are within the EU will reject it, maybe an alternative to the EU can come to pass.

It would though be nice to get american support for such an alternative, some kind of transatlantic free trade zone. And it will be in your best interests I beliewe, as the European (EU) nationalists (as opposed to individual nations patriots) are hell bent on becoming America´s rival, thus destroying the cooperation and allience of democratic countries in the world and thus giving the socialistic and other forms of tyrannies in the world a change to win the eternal struggle.

[CasearianDaoist]

Turkey will never be allowed in the EU. Not Ever. That they pose this as a result of a No vote is as comic as it is sureal.

[lutz]

bump!

[ScaniaBoy]

One would think that foreign ministers would know and understand a thing or two about what is happening in other countries - but not so.

If their excellencies had bothered to follow the referendum campaign in France even in the most superficial way they would have known that an argument that certainly will increase the No vote is that a No to the constitution will stop the membership negotiations with Turkey.

This is certainly not an argument for a Yes.

Strange to think that we eurosceptics have so many allies among the European foreign minsters. /sarcasm

[ScaniaBoy]

To follow on from my previous post:

Isn't it a little bit scary that the Foreign ministers are so badly informed about what is happening in one of the larger European countries?

If they know so little about France, what do they know about Putin's plans, the growing tension between China and Japan, etc, etc??

[norton]

At the bottom of all this hand-wringing and pomposity - I wonder if the average euroguy on the street hasn't become just a bit worried about all this 'bigger and better' stuff?

Even the collaborators must remember that everytime someone from the outside came along to make trains run on time or make sure that everyone got what they needed from the government it really meant an occupation of one sort or another.

[longjack]

A German article I read was of the opinion that a French NO vote on the EU constitution was more of a protest against Turkey joining the EU and against the French government itself, which is attempting to reduce spending.

A survey says only 5% of the French even know what's in the EU constitution.

The government has given its army of burocrats raises in an effort to tone down the antagonism, which sounds to me like buying votes.

Chirac got his lunch eaten by a group of young intelectuals in the TV debate, his "Trust Us" message went over like a lead balloon, and now he has probably established the dynamic that a vote against the EU constitution is a vote against the policies of Chirac in general.

Germany isn't having a referendum, the parliament is voting on it, but iffy Holland and Denmark are holding referendums this year, and iffy Great Britain the next. If even one country votes no it will not be implemented.

I don't think the French will vote this down when crunch time comes, though, but I would very much like to be wrong.

"Spiegel-Online"....Wie Chirac die EU-Verfassung retten will

longjack

[Earthdweller]

Well the narcissistic frenchies don't want to be just a "state".

Surprise, surprise.

Maybe all that anti-American rhetoric by Chirac actually backfired on him in this instance.

[CasearianDaoist]

These people are completely self absorbed, and they believe their own PR. They display all the signs of clilical narcissists.

What they do not realize is that they have destroyed most of the respect Americans have held for Europe.

They somehow think by merely posturing as "equals" to the USA that they have become such.

Further, they do not realize what becoming "superpower really entails. For example, American will not much longer take the EU under its strategic "umbrella." when that goes they will have to develop their own. Russia will not like that very much. They want to "have a louder say" in world affairs. They seem to have no idea what that means. They will get their wish: "Independence" from the USA. When they find out what that really amounts to they will not be very happy. They are like teenagers.

It seems to me that Europe has gone quite mad. The consequence are very real for Europe, and I fear that the damage is already done as far as any long term "partnership with the USA.

I believe that America will begin soon to pull out of the "partnership" on all levels. They have not only betrayed us in a time of war, but they have betrayed their own (an ours) civilization.

BTW, do you really thing that the French will vote it down. I find that hard to believe. Even if they want to vote it out, I would expect massive vote fraud. These people are so power mad that their power lust projects even out of simple PR photograph shots. I am surprised that they have gotten this far, but I would be even more surprised if anything short of war stops them now.

From this side of the atlantic they seem quite mad - more blatnat in their power lust than ever Stalin, Hitler or Tojo ever where, and much more deluded about the capacities of America to defy them. It is as if they actually believe that all of their jabbering is based on so real accomplishment and established facts.

Becoming "superpower is not just a matter of money or imitating American institutions. The overlords of the EU have it just backwards: They think America success was do to a large market, the dollar, large scale research institutions, but these are effects not causes. A nation is not a set of custom house rules.

I they do succeed in ramming this down the throats of the peoples of the EU, it is only a matter of time before wide scale disaffection set in, and then will come rebellion.

I wager that the EU though presented as a bright future will end up being Europe's greatness tragedy, perhaps its final one.

[Grzegorz 246]

"Turkey will never be allowed in the EU."

Why ?

[Prince Charles]

One of the new pontiff's first acts should be to denounce this unholy eurotrash document.

[ScaniaBoy]

Thanks for your reply. You raise a lot of interesting questions that requires a lot longer than I have now to answer. But let me at least say that I fully agree with you on most points, and then let me give you a few quick comments:

It seems to me that Europe has gone quite mad.

Yes, at least our political class. Basically the EU and its consequences are too difficult for them to understand, and then they do what comes easiest, acquiesce.

I think you can get a feeling for what is really going on by reading the exchange between myself and fdsa2in this thread:

The EU constitution: a guide to its key features

If you look at my response #64 you'll see that you are not the only one who is afraid that this will lead to a bloody conflict...

BTW, do you really thing that the French will vote it down. I find that hard to believe. Even if they want to vote it out, I would expect massive vote fraud.

Michael Portillo wrote in the Times (27/3) that on the eve of the Maastricht referendum in France the British government was notified by their French counterparts only minutes after the polls had been closed with the news that the Yes had won by 51-49. He remembers that many of the ministers exchanged knowing looks. A result that close cannot be known with certainty until most of the votes have been counted...

However, if the polls will continue to show the No side in the lead by more than 10% I don't think it will be possible to cheat.

So what will the do? In a previous thread I wrote this:

1) The Eurocrats pretend nothing has happened; many of the laws included in the "Constitution" have already been passed, and so they just push on. However, they will run the risk that a new Eurosceptic government in Britain will call their bluff.

2) There will be a core-EU consisting of Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg and maybe Italy and possibly Holland (but the Dutch will surely vote no if the French already have done so, so I'm not so sure they will follow their big neighbours any longer). The rest of the EU will "regress" (in my way progress) into a free trade area.

3) Chirac will claim that the vote is nil and void, since the participation was below (chose a suitable percentage) or for some other reason. This has worked in the past, but I think there may be a revolt in France and elsewhere if they try this trick again.

#1 is definitely the most likely, #3 I don't believe in if the polls are right. However, as I've also written before, it may be that Chirac, after a huge NON, will turn into a "nationalist" to protect his own hide. This may go together with #2. The anglo-saxons and the pesky Scandinavians will be thrown out, and only those Med and Eastern countries that are sure to follow the French lead, and won't be too much of an economic burden will be let in.

Of course I think this is the best possible solution. It can still create a lot of problems, but the risks are probably less than with a large EU that eventually will have to find an external enemy (and we know who that will be!) to keep the people(s) in line.

[CasearianDaoist]

Well the Germans for one. Greece for another.

Really, the Europeans do not want Turkey in the Union. The EU overlords played footsie with them in order to obstruct the USA, but their promises where empty.

No one in Europe want the Turks in except power grubbing EUrocrats, and even they have not thought through the consequences.

[CasearianDaoist]

Thanks for the response. I hope that you are right, for all of our sakes. BTW, I will be over in Scandinavia (and Finland - do you consider Finland part of Scandinavia?) in a few months and will be there for a while. I am looking forward to putting and ear to the ground and getting a first hand look at the political scene up north. I really have to rely on people like you for most of my insight.

Thanks, again.

[Grzegorz 246]

"Really, the Europeans do not want Turkey in the Union."

It's not so important. Their "leaders" decide about it.

I personally prefer Turkish PM than that fag Zapatero, the same with many other Turks and Europeans.