Posted on 12/09/2009 7:59:20 PM PST by WesternCulture
Every child, Muslim or not, KNOWS Islam hates what America stands for.
As a European, I understand why many Americans wonder why we don't give more support to the US than we do.
You, indeed, supported US, even in our darkest hour; at a point in history we Europeans didn't even support our own freedom.
This was just some decades ago.
One sort of answer to this question is that deep somewhere in the intrinsic soul of Europe, there is true resistence to evil and enslavement, but after having experienced so much of it, we are somewhat unable of expressing this inner belief of ours.
When we do, it comes in the form of the most magnificent of all musical pieces ever composed:
Beethoven's 9th Symphony, our anthem.
However, not even the proud orchestras of Vienna, London and Berlin can stop the advancement of reality.
The PC doctrines many European leaders take pride in launching on a daily basis won't stop the progress of Eurabia.
We have a situation here.
What we Europeans ought to do right now is to continue arguing with America - out of principle - while simultaneously taking on more of a proper role in the WOT.
I'm a European (Swedish) guy of 40 who never have understood the hatred between our corners of the world.
The competition and squabbling yes, but the unaware, ridiculous bashing, no.
I sometimes can't resist some good ol' mud throwing across the pond (But at least, there's some heart in it on such occasions..), but why would I wish to call Americans "stupid".
I've lived and worked in Britain and I love many aspects of that part of Europe, but one aspect I don't particularly fancy about typical British behavior is the inclination to call Americans names (on the other hand, they are very much like the Italians; on a monument celebrating Leonardo da Vinci in the little town of Vinci, Tuscany, near Florence, a proud, idiotic Florentine once sprayed "Pisa Morte!" = "Death to Pisa!" - Brits and Italians hate their neighbor cities above all else, so simply don't bother too much)
When young (well, this was when I was 29), I got drunk in Rome together with some Americans guys and some British girls. Why don't we always behave like that? Next day, I was sober enough to explain to a bunch of Danish freaks I met the day before why they had been in custody all night.
From my Swedish perspective:
Why should we Westerners (and our allies) quarrel over green house gas emissions instead of trying to run civilization like Ingvar Kamprad runs IKEA? (Okay, there are many other smart businessmen, but believe me that man has IK).
We Westerners are presently in a war together, something I view as a pretty serious engagement, opposed to how I, as a Scandinavian, view "our" attempts at bonding with the likes of Carter, Gore and Obama through appointing them certain awards.
What have they done in order to fight Islamism?
Less than some "lesser" persons.
Brave Swedish soldiers, Danish soldiers, American soldiers and British soldiers have died in this war that should not be.
The families of these true heroes try hard, EVERY day and carry on some sort of "life as usual" existence, while I lead a very pleasant life here in Sweden, planning Christmas celebrations and reading old recepies from the time my grandparents were mere kids helping their mothers make meatballs (at a time when IKEA restaurants didn't exist, not even in Sweden) while begging their fathers to buy them a bicycle.
Western civilization actually means something to me. I can not be separated from it.
I will continue to stand up for it.
Not only because I had a fun time in Rome some years ago and on so many other occasions when abroad.
The prime reason for this stance and belief of mine is that it has taught me freedom.
I have shared good times (whilst sober as well as sometimes pretty sober) with (secularized) Muslim people on my journies abroad.
But never with "convinced" Muslims. Instead of being welcoming and open, they go on forever with their senseless blahblahblah until you turn your back on them and walk away (in their world, reproducing long, pointless lectures by their favourite Imam is involved with great social prestige, that's about the least they feel they can do for their holy cause).
At one time, in India, I explained to one them (well, he wasn't a "fanatic" perhaps) the blatant conflict between what he explained to be his ambitions in life and what the Koran instructed him to do. He got immensely confused. Perhaps there was hope for that guy..
Even IF Islam (somehow) would prove to be much more of a cuddly religion than many Westerners today picture it to be, there remains the threat of those PC Western "leaders" who get paid $500 000 a year for preaching things like "We must all go green and everyone ought to give everyone else around a green, big hug".
In Europe we have tons of them.
A big F*** *** to them from Europeans like me who do decent jobs, producing something of value here in life like fighter planes or BMW, Audi and Volvo SUVs!
A truly united, prosperous, free Europe is a wonderful ambition.
Such politicians are the undertakers of that dream.
Just like we Europeans should support Americans who wish to stand up for their freedom - which go hand in hand with that of ours - Americans ought to understand that Chirac is never was "our" leader.
Please allow me to go on preaching, using my kind of English;
Being defenders of freedom, America, Europe and our allies like Japan, India, South Korea, Australia etc MUST continue to support the right to express more or less everything. Even nonsense and abuse.
It's as easy as that.
America can get over Chirac. Sarkozy did.
I've been to France two times this year for holiday.
I enjoyed a lot of friendly chats with all sorts of people. Most of them expressed dissatisfaction with Chirac, no one criticized USA.
There is NO substantial disagrement between traditional European values and American ones regarding what constitutes true civilization.
But there IS a severe conflict between the Western idea of liberty and the idea of ideologies like Socialism, Fascism, Nazism and Islamism.
Some years ago, I visited a certain museum in Copenhagen called "the Museum of Freedom" (Frihedsmuséet).
I was confronted with letters young Danes had written to their families some hours before being shot by the Nazis occupying their country.
Appalled and heart-rended, I stumbled back from their last greetings to humanity, feeling like I owed these young patriots something.
My committment?
My life?
Yes, words sometimes fail.
But the struggle for freedom will not and can not.
This was the country that won the 30 years war. They then pissed away vast territories and power in Northern Europe on vanities.
The Russians still fear them. After all, they can't hit the place with nukes because the fallout would rain down on Russia! (Bwahahahahahah!)
Worth noting, it's less than 70 years since the Swedes beat the Russians in a War ~ fought through the Finns, but they stopped the Red Army. They also beat the Germans ~ again, fighting through the Finns, but the Germans fled through Northern Norway, not across Sweden.
Funny relationships in the North Country, and they simply don't cover this in American history courses.
Regarding running an economy, WC is the typical Swede and imagines that people can run an economy through the instrumentality of the state. Americans believe that economies can only be run through free people, and that the state is, at best, a hindrance that should be suppressed to the degree possible.
To a Swede, Obama and his running dog lackeys are simply more of the same. To us they are the Abomination of Desolation standing in the midst of the Holy of Holies.
Not sure we can communicate across the chasm those two beliefs create.
I'm still waiting on return of family properties held for thousands of years before the arrival of the Swedes ~ and if WC wants to send me a few million I'll be happy to accept the payment, but then we'll have to negotiate rent from the time of King Frosti.
Over those 350 or so years, did your family learn what it means to be patriotic? The reason I ask is, this poster is from somewhere in Scandanavia.
Or SAAB. Or ABBA for that matter.
If I recall correctly, WC clarified his position later on that same thread. (I still can't find the link, but only because I'm on dialup--backup laptop).
Allies like him are to be watched carefully. WWII taught us all about his nation.
> offended by any of WC’s posts . . . if anyone has, then they are probably too thin-skinned to be conservatives
Exactly. Sorry about my prior taunt!
> Over those 350 or so years, did your family learn what it means to be patriotic? The reason I ask is, this poster is from somewhere in Scandanavia.
Sure, some of us. Plenty of lefties in there, too.
My point is that he’s a _Swedish_ patriot. He SHOULD brag about his own country. What kind of an ass would just praise the US and not challenge us.
I kind of think you agree with me here!
Oh, come off it. Re-read the thread you linked (hopefully, for the second time). He’s on our side. He also happens to be a Swede who is proud of his country, and favors it over ours. Try and wrap your mind around it.
Perhaps if we "did not" he would be happier speaking Russian or German as his second language.
What did tell you where they stand was the WINTER WAR and the CONTINUATION WAR, fought by the Finns against first the Russians and then the Germans, but mostly paid for by the Swedes.
It's really hard to make the case that the Swedes were allied with the Nazis.
I never even implied that. But they certainly weren't allied with Britain or the US, either.
“I’ve lived and worked in Britain and I love many aspects of that part of Europe, but one aspect I don’t particularly fancy about typical British behavior is the inclination to call Americans names...”
After hearing from time to time how the Brits have developed not an inclination but a habit of making fun of Americans, I long ago grew weary of them. I last visited Great Britain in 2000, and indeed it was my last visit. Never again.
Last year my wife, visiting Italy, also heard some unpleasantries about the USA there. But it doesn’t bother her the way it bothers me.
I long ago decided that I would spend the rest of my remaining years exploring America. No more foreign trips.
Back away from the adult beverages, rudy.
> That’s right, buc. How could he be so stupid not to bow in subservience to someone like you? You’re awesome.
Me too man. I bow to buc. He’s much more Amerikan than me!!
During the WWII period Russia was the enemy of countries in the Fenno-Scandian peninsula. The Russians stole half of Finland, formerly part of the Swedish Empire, and after WWII Russia occupied Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland and half of Finland, all formerly part of the Swedish Empire.
Although pro-Swedish sentiments appear to not be terribly big on the Polish scene, there are still statues and memorials to famous Swedes throughout the rest of the former Empire.
I'm not sure what the Swedes and Finns who found themselves facing off against the Red Army are supposed to think when the USA was allied with the Red Army.
Even my kid has read about "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Just like Sal says on the Dennis Miller program:
Foreigners are different.
Different is bad.
Foreigners are bad.
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