"Early Bronze Age battle site found on German river bank"

BBC ^ | 22 May 11 02:38 ET | Neil Bowdler

[Covenantor]

Early Bronze Age battle site found on German river bank

22 May 11 02:38 ET

? By Neil Bowdler Science reporter, BBC News

Fractured human remains found on a German river bank could provide the first compelling evidence of a major Bronze Age battle. Archaeological excavations of the Tollense Valley in northern Germany unearthed fractured skulls, wooden clubs and horse remains dating from around 1200 BC. The injuries to the skulls suggest face-to-face combat in a battle perhaps fought between warring tribes, say the researchers. The paper, published in the journal Antiquity, is based primarily on an investigation begun in 2008 of the Tollense Valley site, which involved both ground excavations and surveys of the riverbed by divers. They found remains of around 100 human bodies, of which eight had lesions to their bones. Most of the bodies, but not all, appeared to be young men. The injuries included skull damage caused by massive blows or arrowheads, and some of the injuries appear to have been fatal. One humerus (upper arm) bone contained an arrow head embedded more than 22mm into the bone, while a thigh bone fracture suggests a fall from a horse (horse bones were also found at the site). The archaeologists also found remains of two wooden clubs, one the shape of a baseball bat and made of ash, the second the shape of a croquet mallet and made of sloe wood.

[Bean Counter]

That’s the battle I was trying to recall...Thanks!

[Moltke]

Teutoburg Forest

"In this picture we cannot see the Germanic warriors..."

How Not To Be Seen

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

And as Augustus said many times later when he needed troops, and didn’t have them...

“VARIUS! GIVE ME BACK MY LEGIONS!”

[Repeal The 17th]

[SatinDoll]

Might I suggest severe fluctuations in climate could have initiated the migrations, the collapse of the Hittite Empire, and the invasion of the eastern Mediterranean coastline by the “Sea Peoples”?

According to Brian Fagan in The Long Summer: How Climate Changed Civilization, there was a very long, hot dry period between 2200 to 1200 bc. Beginning on page 177, he claims a widespread drought in 1200 bc affected much of eastern Europe and the Middle East.

[jdege]

Thanks for mentioning that book. I found it fascinating.

I was also fascinated in the way the author expected it to convince his readers of the importance of cutting greenhouse gas emissions.

He seemed to think that by explaining how past climate changes had impacted or destroyed past civilizations, we’d immediately jump to the conclusion that we need to do all we can to prevent the next climate change.

Somehow, he seems to think that after having explored a number of past incidents of climate change - in eras when there could have been no anthropogenic factor - we’d assume that we could prevent future incidents of climate change, simply by adopting a “green” lifestyle.

That all of those prior civilizations that had been destroyed by climate change had been living “green” lifestyles doesn’t seem to have occurred to him.

[SatinDoll]

I suspect Mr. Fagan does that purposefully (and he has done so in a more recent publication) to appease the slavering lefties in academia. Those leftists can be relentless, dogged and vicious, destroying the reputation of decent researchers and scientists who will not comply.

Global warming mongers are like The Mob - they demand criminal extortion. For scientists, it is in the form of pushing politcaly-oriented lies. This has, unfortunately, been happening for years.

[Moltke]

Heh. Excellent! (Thanks, I needed that laugh tonight.)

[SunkenCiv]

That’s just the stuff they left behind. :’) But your question points to what I regard as the fundamental stupidity of continued use of “bronze age” “iron age” etc to date things.

[SunkenCiv]

· GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach · · join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·
	Antiquity Journal  & archive  Archaeologica  Archaeology  Archaeology Channel  BAR  Bronze Age Forum  Discover  Dogpile  Eurekalert  Google  LiveScience  Mirabilis.ca  Nat Geographic  PhysOrg  Science Daily  Science News  Texas AM  Yahoo  Excerpt, or Link only?	Thanks Covenantor. Good guess, btw. :') ...unearthed fractured skulls, wooden clubs and horse remains dating from around 1200 BC... suggest face-to-face combat in a battle perhaps fought between warring tribes... found remains of around 100 human bodies, of which eight had lesions to their bones. Most of the bodies, but not all, appeared to be young men. The injuries included skull damage caused by massive blows or arrowheads, and some of the injuries appear to have been fatal. Good guess, since these are 3200 year old human *remains*. One humerus (upper arm) bone contained an arrow head embedded more than 22mm into the bone, while a thigh bone fracture suggests a fall from a horse (horse bones were also found at the site). The archaeologists also found remains of two wooden clubs, one the shape of a baseball bat and made of ash, the second the shape of a croquet mallet and made of sloe wood. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
· History topic · history keyword · archaeology keyword · paleontology keyword · · Science topic · science keyword · Books/Literature topic · pages keyword ·

[SunkenCiv]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2723332/posts

[gleeaikin]

I think you are referring to the battle of Toutoburg Forest where the Roman Varus (thought to be the 4th most important man in Rome) was totally defeated and he along with most of his legions killed. It was during the reign of Augustus, who reportedly beat his head against a wall screaming, “Varus give me back my legions.” All this from a very detailed Wiki article which I recommend reading.

[gleeaikin]

I thought it was an interesting detail that the Romans retired the numbers for the 3 lost legions, as well as the number for the Legion that fought the Bar Kochba rebellion by the Jews.

[EternalVigilance]

remains of two wooden clubs, one the shape of a baseball bat and made of ash

Amazing artifact.

[TheOldLady]

...some of the injuries appear to have been fatal.

*Snort*

[WoofDog123]

Until I read tacitus (iirc), I didn’t know that germanicus was right back at the sites of varus’ pitched defenses within a few years, defeated everyone who fought him, took back some legionary eagles, etc.

Interesting to wonder if Tiberius and his mother hadn’t been so paranoid, and had left germanicus where he was and not poisoned him, if it would have made a lasting impact on the history of the region during roman times.

[MattinNJ]

My ancestors fought naked in the snow BTTT

[SunkenCiv]

Note: this topic is from long ago. Sort of one of *those* topics. Thanks for posting it.

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[<1/1,000,000th%]

It is also unlikely that there’d be a lot of bronze left on the battle field. It was valuable.

[SunkenCiv]